Knicks · Knicks are good, but there are concerns (page 1)

Knicks are 9-7 which is fine considering the tough schedule, inconsistency from Randle, and missed time by Barrett. Brunson is an absolute stud who keeps getting better, and the offense can be built around him. Mitch likewise is equally impressive on defense and the offensive boards. DiVincenzo has been a good fit in place of Toppin. He’s a better shooter, defender and more versatile/ multi-dimensional.

My concerns have been Grimes, as well as Hart’s role. Grimes is currently a weak link on offense, reminiscent of Bullock, where opponents can hide bad defenders on him, and that eventually becomes a concern. Hart’s issues are somewhat tied to his position change within the rotation. It’s not so much defending 4s, it’s the fact he’s used as a stretch-4 on offense instead of the grab-and-go playmaker he was last year alongside Quickley. Knicks are essentially using DDV in that role now with his combo-guard skill set, instead of being just a spot-up shooter. Essentially DDV and Hart overlap.

I see a few fixes to this that all involve Grimes. One is moving Grimes to the second unit to be strictly a spot up shooter and cutter. Replacing him can be either Quickley or DDV, it doesn’t matter which. Quickley is likely either a starter soon or eventually gets moved anyways, and he’s essential to this team. He has become the lifeline. I wouldn’t even trade him for Anunoby at this point, he’s too valuable. He can start, and then DDV and Hart can man the backcourt in the second unit. DDV could also start in place of Grimes and again the bench backcourt can return to IQ and Hart, which was most effective last year. Hart can guard 4s but lead the break and be on the ball much more. The third option would be to trade Grimes for a bigger wing, someone who can play 4 in spot minutes. We just aren’t utilizing Hart the way that made him so valuable here. He’s a utility player on offense, not a spot-up shooter.

I understand there may not be an external move until a star player becomes available, so trading Grimes to improve on the margins for a player like Jerami Grant, Alex Caruso, Bogdanovic, etc may not be in the cards right now, so there may have to be an internal move to get this team to another level. I’m encouraged with this group, but we still have a ways to go.

You've seen how easily the Knicks win when they are making their 3pt shots. It's still an issue, we need shooters who can spread the floor. Nobody respects Randle, Barrett, Grimes or Mitch to shoot and make shots at a high percentage from 3.

Grimes is not a lost cause but he is still 2 years away from being two years away. Funny though, all the SG's that have become available were not good enough for Knicks fans (me included because they cost to much in assets in our stage of team development). B. Beal, D. Mitchell, D. Lillard just to name a few.

Rookie wrote:You've seen how easily the Knicks win when they are making their 3pt shots. It's still an issue, we need shooters who can spread the floor. Nobody respects Randle, Barrett, Grimes or Mitch to shoot and make shots at a high percentage from 3.

Grimes is not a lost cause but he is still 2 years away from being two years away. Funny though, all the SG's that have become available were not good enough for Knicks fans (me included because they cost to much in assets in our stage of team development). B. Beal, D. Mitchell, D. Lillard just to name a few.

I think it had more to do with redundancies and fit. All three of those guys are bad fits with Brunson. We don't need another short combo guard. They could just start IQ. Also, I can't even remember the last time Beal has suited up.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Rookie wrote:You've seen how easily the Knicks win when they are making their 3pt shots. It's still an issue, we need shooters who can spread the floor. Nobody respects Randle, Barrett, Grimes or Mitch to shoot and make shots at a high percentage from 3.

Grimes is not a lost cause but he is still 2 years away from being two years away. Funny though, all the SG's that have become available were not good enough for Knicks fans (me included because they cost to much in assets in our stage of team development). B. Beal, D. Mitchell, D. Lillard just to name a few.

I think it had more to do with redundancies and fit. All three of those guys are bad fits with Brunson. We don't need another short combo guard. They could just start IQ. Also, I can't even remember the last time Beal has suited up.

For Mitchell it just comes down to cost. Knicks absolutely would still want him and would live with the backcourt size concerns.

It was important when Leon was hired to bring the team to respectable street.
We are there.
concerns? In the age of financial parity its easier to rebuild but its for all teams as well.
Knicks did this on the backs of two free agent signings- randle and Brunson.
No starphuching. We have drafted well but not without mistakes. No "god sends" either. Mitch comes close given his draft position.
Jury is still out on RJ.
Far be it for this fan to think I can fix this team with my keystrokes so I wont' try.
We got here and are in a position to make a trade if one makes sense.

I'm under the belief that we are striving to do more of what works and execution takes time to master. Grimes is starting for a developmental reason which means we can't see the future.
RJ set back/Meds perhaps needs a week or so to sort out.
IQ saves the day but he also creates deficits when he goes cold. He might be out for pay day? Hope not. BUt its human nature.
Randle is our poster child for our distain. Knicks fans do love a "dog". We also like to kick them as well.

Orlando is 12 & 5. They were a team I thought would be a surprise this year. Early, but I am worried that we are going to be trapped as a team that is good when we out play out hustle our opponents, but we will never be able to rely on inherent talent- kinda like how I feel the Ewing Knicks were.

I’m kind of at the point with both Randle and Barrett that I would love them for salvage value. I don’t see them on a championship team. They have zero court awareness. Zero ability to feed their teammates. Teams can simply wait for them to force a shot and block it cause they don’t recognize that they have 3+ defenders on them. I think my 37 win total is gonna earn out this year if something doesn’t change.

franco12 wrote:Orlando is 12 & 5. They were a team I thought would be a surprise this year. Early, but I am worried that we are going to be trapped as a team that is good when we out play out hustle our opponents, but we will never be able to rely on inherent talent- kinda like how I feel the Ewing Knicks were.

This is pretty much where I am.

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Rookie wrote:You've seen how easily the Knicks win when they are making their 3pt shots. It's still an issue, we need shooters who can spread the floor. Nobody respects Randle, Barrett, Grimes or Mitch to shoot and make shots at a high percentage from 3.

Grimes is not a lost cause but he is still 2 years away from being two years away. Funny though, all the SG's that have become available were not good enough for Knicks fans (me included because they cost to much in assets in our stage of team development). B. Beal, D. Mitchell, D. Lillard just to name a few.

I think it had more to do with redundancies and fit. All three of those guys are bad fits with Brunson. We don't need another short combo guard. They could just start IQ. Also, I can't even remember the last time Beal has suited up.

For Mitchell it just comes down to cost. Knicks absolutely would still want him and would live with the backcourt size concerns.

You're probably right. I might've been projecting my own thoughts on the matter. Still, Brunaon's presence minimizes the level of desperation the team has for a Brunson deal.

It's a long season but clearly the Knicks best 5 man group is IQ JB RJ JR and MR. I get Thibs reluctance to put IQ in as starter because he wants him to have more opportunity with the bench units. A lot of guys are playing less minutes than last season so this probably has to do with keeping everyone fresh for a deep playoff run. One thing Knicks have to be real conscious of is MR's free throw shooting, since it can be a huge liability late in the game.

I don't see anything the Knicks have to hang their heads about so far. It's a long season of guys who fight hard with good on- off court chemistry. Mostly what the Knicks need is to refind last seasons offensive efficiency with this seasons defense. Currently Knicks are ranked 11 in offense and 7 in defense, so we are really talking about marginal improvements.

I'm increasingly thinking the best moves going forward are doing nothing. Use Evan's cap space to resign IQ and Hart. For the next two seasons Knicks will likely have two picks (Dallas own 24, Milwaukee own 25). Use those picks them trade up, down, or out for guys that can help.

As far as Grimes goes, it's a long season. He has a pretty strong pedigree of providing above average offense. I think any concerns are overblown in light of team success.

gradyandrew wrote:It's a long season but clearly the Knicks best 5 man group is IQ JB RJ JR and MR. I get Thibs reluctance to put IQ in as starter because he wants him to have more opportunity with the bench units. A lot of guys are playing less minutes than last season so this probably has to do with keeping everyone fresh for a deep playoff run. One thing Knicks have to be real conscious of is MR's free throw shooting, since it can be a huge liability late in the game.

I don't see anything the Knicks have to hang their heads about so far. It's a long season of guys who fight hard with good on- off court chemistry. Mostly what the Knicks need is to refind last seasons offensive efficiency with this seasons defense. Currently Knicks are ranked 11 in offense and 7 in defense, so we are really talking about marginal improvements.

I'm increasingly thinking the best moves going forward are doing nothing. Use Evan's cap space to resign IQ and Hart. For the next two seasons Knicks will likely have two picks (Dallas own 24, Milwaukee own 25). Use those picks them trade up, down, or out for guys that can help.

As far as Grimes goes, it's a long season. He has a pretty strong pedigree of providing above average offense. I think any concerns are overblown in light of team success.

I still believe the Knicks may eventually see Quickley as a starter next to Brunson as long as they can add some firepower off the bench to replace him. Quickley can shoot and defend and operate as a secondary playmaker. Him not starting has more to do with his presence in the second unit. I don’t know, maybe the Knicks trade for someone like Brogdon, or maybe they trust Hart and DDV off the bench as the ball handlers and add a scoring forward to replace Quickleys offense so he can start. Time will tell.

I personally think Grimes does what he does well. My issue is that role really should be a bench role imho. I think he should be on the bench gearing up to defend the hot hand from the perimeter

I also think Hart should be the starting SF. I think he’s the teams spirit animal. We don’t need to get him going. He doesn’t force anything and opportunity always seems to find him and his motor

I think RJ should be a SG. I just do. I like the size that gives. Maybe RJ isn’t an ideal SG but he’s more of a SG than Hart is a PF

https://www.basketball-reference.com/tea...

At least some of the lineup data is inching into relevance. The starters are solid but not great. Hart in for RJ looks like a problem. That main bench lineup of IQ DD Hart RJ and I Hart looks good. 55 minutes is a small sample size but it seems like it would make sense just to bring IQ and Hart in together for RJ and Grimes six minutes into the quarter.

SupremeCommander wrote:I personally think Grimes does what he does well. My issue is that role really should be a bench role imho. I think he should be on the bench gearing up to defend the hot hand from the perimeter

I also think Hart should be the starting SF. I think he's the teams spirit animal. We don't need to get him going. He doesn't force anything and opportunity always seems to find him and his motor

I think RJ should be a SG. I just do. I like the size that gives. Maybe RJ isn't an ideal SG but he's more of a SG than Hart is a PF

Somewhere today I read Scott Perry, who is talking more now that he is out of the FO BTW, likes OG for knicks and put RJ back at SG. I concur with that.
As to what OG would cost is a different story. I have to discount the beef between the two teams as not a reason to do a trade. Massai takes the best offer for his team and let the teams fight it out in court or where ever. Likely it gets settled out of the public eye and perhaps part of the negotiation is "you owe the knicks a favor" and all things being equal they do a trade.

If knicks are correct that Silver is bias, then he might have to actually demonstrate he is not. Now im not saying we get a discount, but at some points its just business. Fornier, Grimes and a protected first round pick and one of our sweet 2nd round picks. Thats a young prospect, and two picks. The 2nds are good becuase of salary considerations. Do I throw in another 2nd round picks? Sure, Im a fan and I press keystrokes and make it happen.
lets not get carried away, OG is a good player, not an all star. If this opens up our chemistry a bit then we improve.

Is IQ a well sought PG and garner big money or is he a off the bench microwave combo? There is still "concerns" about his lead guard status when he dances to play make.
When he flat out looks to shoot and follow his instincts, he is very effective. What is this a question? In two weeks many players will be available to trade and things will happen before Christmas. OG and Siakim are free at end of year and Toronto, despite an decent on paper sits 11th in the east. They are in that vast "middle class".
In the east CLT, Wash and Det are firmly cellar dwelling. Bull if they don't dismantle should figure it the fuck out and contend for a play in spot were ATL, BKN, and I fear we might land with Indy as well. Orlando might be fore real but thats not easy to digest yet.

Bottom line is we fans had some 3rd-4th seed expectations. We won't suck, but our ceiling is not etched in stone.

gradyandrew wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/tea...

At least some of the lineup data is inching into relevance. The starters are solid but not great. Hart in for RJ looks like a problem. That main bench lineup of IQ DD Hart RJ and I Hart looks good. 55 minutes is a small sample size but it seems like it would make sense just to bring IQ and Hart in together for RJ and Grimes six minutes into the quarter.

oh, thanks for the link. For some reason I never saw that before.

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Rookie wrote:You've seen how easily the Knicks win when they are making their 3pt shots. It's still an issue, we need shooters who can spread the floor. Nobody respects Randle, Barrett, Grimes or Mitch to shoot and make shots at a high percentage from 3.

Grimes is not a lost cause but he is still 2 years away from being two years away. Funny though, all the SG's that have become available were not good enough for Knicks fans (me included because they cost to much in assets in our stage of team development). B. Beal, D. Mitchell, D. Lillard just to name a few.

I think it had more to do with redundancies and fit. All three of those guys are bad fits with Brunson. We don't need another short combo guard. They could just start IQ. Also, I can't even remember the last time Beal has suited up.

For Mitchell it just comes down to cost. Knicks absolutely would still want him and would live with the backcourt size concerns.

Gary Trent Jr could be a low cost alternative as a FA

Rookie wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Rookie wrote:You've seen how easily the Knicks win when they are making their 3pt shots. It's still an issue, we need shooters who can spread the floor. Nobody respects Randle, Barrett, Grimes or Mitch to shoot and make shots at a high percentage from 3.

Grimes is not a lost cause but he is still 2 years away from being two years away. Funny though, all the SG's that have become available were not good enough for Knicks fans (me included because they cost to much in assets in our stage of team development). B. Beal, D. Mitchell, D. Lillard just to name a few.

I think it had more to do with redundancies and fit. All three of those guys are bad fits with Brunson. We don't need another short combo guard. They could just start IQ. Also, I can't even remember the last time Beal has suited up.

For Mitchell it just comes down to cost. Knicks absolutely would still want him and would live with the backcourt size concerns.

Gary Trent Jr could be a low cost alternative as a FA

The problem is he’s not an upgrade over anyone in the rotation. That’s where most of the problems will be for the Knicks trying to upgrade.

Rookie wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Rookie wrote:You've seen how easily the Knicks win when they are making their 3pt shots. It's still an issue, we need shooters who can spread the floor. Nobody respects Randle, Barrett, Grimes or Mitch to shoot and make shots at a high percentage from 3.

Grimes is not a lost cause but he is still 2 years away from being two years away. Funny though, all the SG's that have become available were not good enough for Knicks fans (me included because they cost to much in assets in our stage of team development). B. Beal, D. Mitchell, D. Lillard just to name a few.

I think it had more to do with redundancies and fit. All three of those guys are bad fits with Brunson. We don't need another short combo guard. They could just start IQ. Also, I can't even remember the last time Beal has suited up.

For Mitchell it just comes down to cost. Knicks absolutely would still want him and would live with the backcourt size concerns.

Gary Trent Jr could be a low cost alternative as a FA

He could be, but with Grimes, DDV and IQ as currently rostered where does he fit?
He is 25 making the same as Fornier coming off the bench as an expiring.
I suspect his earning is on the downside from here so you may be correct.
Reputation wise his defense is not that great and I don't think he fits the Thibian mold.
Perhaps on a 2mm salary he pulls a Kelly Oubre and busts his ass to increase his pay scale?

We've had a good 3 point shooter in Fournier. Whoever is on the radar needs to play defense.

KnickDanger wrote:We've had a good 3 point shooter in Fournier. Whoever is on the radar needs to play defense.

Knicks FO has shown us the mold. Pretty much every player on the Knicks is 2-way or Trade Randle.

martin wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:We've had a good 3 point shooter in Fournier. Whoever is on the radar needs to play defense.

Knicks FO has shown us the mold. Pretty much every player on the Knicks is 2-way or Trade Randle.

Of course trade Randle!