Knicks · [Game Thread 11/30/23 @ 7:30PM] Knicks vs Pistons (page 5)

martin @ 12/1/2023 8:34 AM
nycericanguy wrote:Brunson has turned into an elite high volume 3pt shooter, that was his only question mark really. he was too much mid range. all these 3's are allowing him to score with more volume and without all the work. He worked really hard for those mid range shots last year. Now he's not having to work as hard.

RJ... seems like the early start was just another hot streak unfortunately. but if he can keep defending and drawing fouls, he's still a great young piece going forward

Brunson has one more hurdle left towards NY HOF: passing. May take a year or so but he has got it in him!

nycericanguy @ 12/1/2023 9:04 AM
martin wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:Brunson has turned into an elite high volume 3pt shooter, that was his only question mark really. he was too much mid range. all these 3's are allowing him to score with more volume and without all the work. He worked really hard for those mid range shots last year. Now he's not having to work as hard.

RJ... seems like the early start was just another hot streak unfortunately. but if he can keep defending and drawing fouls, he's still a great young piece going forward

Brunson has one more hurdle left towards NY HOF: passing. May take a year or so but he has got it in him!

that's just not his game, you can ask a guy to improve his shooting, but I don't think Brunson is going to be a big time facilitator. that's asking to change who he is and no way should he. He's a great, efficient scorer from all over the court.

Most PG's are more scorers these days, guys like Bruson, Kyrie, Curry, Fox, SGA... i dont think any of those guys will ever put up big assist numbers, doesn't take anything away from their game really.

We have lots of secondary playmakers on this team, Randle, RJ, Hart, IQ...etc...

He's the best Knick we've had since Ewing and I think he's well on his way to HOF regardless.

VDesai @ 12/1/2023 9:26 AM
martin wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:Brunson has turned into an elite high volume 3pt shooter, that was his only question mark really. he was too much mid range. all these 3's are allowing him to score with more volume and without all the work. He worked really hard for those mid range shots last year. Now he's not having to work as hard.

RJ... seems like the early start was just another hot streak unfortunately. but if he can keep defending and drawing fouls, he's still a great young piece going forward

Brunson has one more hurdle left towards NY HOF: passing. May take a year or so but he has got it in him!

Im not sure he does more than 6-7 apg in this offense. A lot of it funnels through Randle who gets his own 5-6 apg. Brunson is not an elite eyes behind his head type of passer, but I think he's a steady PG who keeps turnovers down and makes sure the team is in the right place and not losing its cool. Derek Harper was that sort of player for us long ago - he never racked up assists, but he was a presence.

LivingLegend @ 12/1/2023 9:59 AM
JesseDark wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Grimes making me want to watch highlights of Elfrid Peyton 3’s.

Kid better wake up or he is going to start getting boo’d - he is as afraid of the ball as any player I can recall off the top of my head. Jared Jefferies had more confidence in his offense.


And only 1 FT attempt on the entire season - 1 attempt!

Yeah that’s pathetic

Time to give Fournier a few minutes, can't be any worse.

The issue is that the starting unit is still one of better in league in terms of net + numbers so if you pull Grimes to get more scoring/shooting and the unit falls off it can be worse.

I don’t see Fournier as the move - he’s purely a contract for trade now (Knicks have really shat on his career here but he took the $ and didn’t defend).

The move is Donte for Grimes swap - same overall 9 man rotation but you see if it boosts starting unit somehow and also boosts Grimes off bench — if not you revert back or you start wondering about Grimes future playing in NY.

Thibs doesn’t want to change he just wants Grimes to play better but the kid is making bad decisions all over the place and his D is falling off.

SergioNYK @ 12/1/2023 10:02 AM
I love how Brunson always seems to bounce back and have these 40something point games after having a quiet/subpar game. Also love to see Randle with 8 assists and just 3 turnovers. Made some clutch shots late in the 4th too. I know everyone is down on Grimes and I get it. He's in a bad shooting slump while DiVincenzo is a lot more consistent and not gun shy shooting the ball. I still like Grimes and still think he can get better but he's got to start hitting shots or he should lose minutes to DiVincenzo and possible that starting spot.
LivingLegend @ 12/1/2023 10:05 AM
nycericanguy wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Grimes making me want to watch highlights of Elfrid Peyton 3’s.

Kid better wake up or he is going to start getting boo’d - he is as afraid of the ball as any player I can recall off the top of my head. Jared Jefferies had more confidence in his offense.


And only 1 FT attempt on the entire season - 1 attempt!

Hard for Grimes to get into rhythm, this is what happens with Evan too. These guys are rhythm shooters.

we just have too many guards/SF's right now. Grimes and IQ have only played 30 min ONE game this season, everyones minutes and numbers seem to be down, that was my fear. but we're winning so cant complain for now.

Grimes needs to stop with those crazy dunk attempts too when he finally gets to the rim, he just tries to dunk no matter what, he doesn't adjust to the defense, thats why he doesnt draw fouls.

That’s an excuse - he’s been playing scared and when the ball hits his hands he goes nowhere with it - he is the king of the extended 3 point line hand-off and he is running from the ball. He is a GREAT kid but it’s not his rhythm because he’s played well in past in exact same system. It’s possible DD addition upped the pressure in his mind.

I agree with you I barked at TV when Grimes attempted stupid dunk over 3 people from about 20 feet away from rim - just a great example of him predetermining his move/shot.

nycericanguy @ 12/1/2023 10:10 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Grimes making me want to watch highlights of Elfrid Peyton 3’s.

Kid better wake up or he is going to start getting boo’d - he is as afraid of the ball as any player I can recall off the top of my head. Jared Jefferies had more confidence in his offense.


And only 1 FT attempt on the entire season - 1 attempt!

Hard for Grimes to get into rhythm, this is what happens with Evan too. These guys are rhythm shooters.

we just have too many guards/SF's right now. Grimes and IQ have only played 30 min ONE game this season, everyones minutes and numbers seem to be down, that was my fear. but we're winning so cant complain for now.

Grimes needs to stop with those crazy dunk attempts too when he finally gets to the rim, he just tries to dunk no matter what, he doesn't adjust to the defense, thats why he doesnt draw fouls.

That’s an excuse - he’s been playing scared and when the ball hits his hands he goes nowhere with it - he is the king of the extended 3 point line hand-off and he is running from the ball. He is a GREAT kid but it’s not his rhythm because he’s played well in past in exact same system. It’s possible DD addition upped the pressure in his mind.

I agree with you I barked at TV when Grimes attempted stupid dunk over 3 people from about 20 feet away from rim - just a great example of him predetermining his move/shot.

Grimes is a shooter, shooters need rhythm, I dont think that's an excuse. Is he scared on drives? yes... but he always has been, he's nothing but a shooter on offense right now. Grimes really took off last year when we shortened the rotation and he got 30mpg. The problem is now we have added DDV and Hart since then and there's no minutes to go around.

At the end of the day we have prepared ourselves for a trade, and until that trade happens where we can shorten the rotation a bit, some of these guys are going to run hot and cold. Grimes hasn't forgotten how to shoot.

LivingLegend @ 12/1/2023 10:27 AM
He’s only losing minutes and touches due to underperforming- Thibs loves the kid and he just needs to play better.

The 1 FT on year is a GLARING indicator that he’s playing soft and making poor decisions. System isn’t about to change Grimes needs to knock down 38-40% of his 3’s - get to the rim occasionally and make solid passes - all the same things he did 2 years ago playing only 16 minutes a game.

Play better

martin @ 12/1/2023 10:34 AM
EwingPSD @ 12/1/2023 10:48 AM
martin wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:Brunson has turned into an elite high volume 3pt shooter, that was his only question mark really. he was too much mid range. all these 3's are allowing him to score with more volume and without all the work. He worked really hard for those mid range shots last year. Now he's not having to work as hard.

RJ... seems like the early start was just another hot streak unfortunately. but if he can keep defending and drawing fouls, he's still a great young piece going forward

Brunson has one more hurdle left towards NY HOF: passing. May take a year or so but he has got it in him!


O hurdle IMO if he maintains this level for 5 seasons. Chris Bosh and Tim Hardaway are recent inductees. I think Brunson clears

EwingPSD @ 12/1/2023 10:59 AM
nycericanguy wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Grimes making me want to watch highlights of Elfrid Peyton 3’s.

Kid better wake up or he is going to start getting boo’d - he is as afraid of the ball as any player I can recall off the top of my head. Jared Jefferies had more confidence in his offense.


And only 1 FT attempt on the entire season - 1 attempt!

Hard for Grimes to get into rhythm, this is what happens with Evan too. These guys are rhythm shooters.

we just have too many guards/SF's right now. Grimes and IQ have only played 30 min ONE game this season, everyones minutes and numbers seem to be down, that was my fear. but we're winning so cant complain for now.

Grimes needs to stop with those crazy dunk attempts too when he finally gets to the rim, he just tries to dunk no matter what, he doesn't adjust to the defense, thats why he doesnt draw fouls.

That’s an excuse - he’s been playing scared and when the ball hits his hands he goes nowhere with it - he is the king of the extended 3 point line hand-off and he is running from the ball. He is a GREAT kid but it’s not his rhythm because he’s played well in past in exact same system. It’s possible DD addition upped the pressure in his mind.

I agree with you I barked at TV when Grimes attempted stupid dunk over 3 people from abou 0 feet away from rim - just a great example of him predetermining his move/shot.

Grimes is a shooter, shooters need rhythm, I dont think that's an excuse. Is he scared on drives? yes... but he always has been, he's nothing but a shooter on offense right now. Grimes really took off last year when we shortened the rotation and he got 30mpg. The problem is now we have added DDV and Hart since then and there's no minutes to go around.

At the end of the day we have prepared ourselves for a trade, and until that trade happens where we can shorten the rotation a bit, some of these guys are going to run hot and cold. Grimes hasn't forgotten how to shoot.

Before the injury he was shooting the 3 pretty well and at pretty high volume. He wasn't doing anything else (no drives, no transition, etc.). I think he is a good enough shooter where he can do what he was doing at the start of the season without many touches and only getting 20-27 mins a night. He'd have some silent nights but overall shoot a decent amount of 3s and make a good %. If he did that and played ALL NBA level D I think he has good value doesn't score much overall. As much as a love Grimes right now he isn't doing anything on offense and I feel like his defense has slipped a little too. I'm cool with him playing through and agree he hasn't forgotten how to shoot.

martin @ 12/1/2023 11:37 AM
EwingPSD wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Grimes making me want to watch highlights of Elfrid Peyton 3’s.

Kid better wake up or he is going to start getting boo’d - he is as afraid of the ball as any player I can recall off the top of my head. Jared Jefferies had more confidence in his offense.


And only 1 FT attempt on the entire season - 1 attempt!

Hard for Grimes to get into rhythm, this is what happens with Evan too. These guys are rhythm shooters.

we just have too many guards/SF's right now. Grimes and IQ have only played 30 min ONE game this season, everyones minutes and numbers seem to be down, that was my fear. but we're winning so cant complain for now.

Grimes needs to stop with those crazy dunk attempts too when he finally gets to the rim, he just tries to dunk no matter what, he doesn't adjust to the defense, thats why he doesnt draw fouls.

That’s an excuse - he’s been playing scared and when the ball hits his hands he goes nowhere with it - he is the king of the extended 3 point line hand-off and he is running from the ball. He is a GREAT kid but it’s not his rhythm because he’s played well in past in exact same system. It’s possible DD addition upped the pressure in his mind.

I agree with you I barked at TV when Grimes attempted stupid dunk over 3 people from abou 0 feet away from rim - just a great example of him predetermining his move/shot.

Grimes is a shooter, shooters need rhythm, I dont think that's an excuse. Is he scared on drives? yes... but he always has been, he's nothing but a shooter on offense right now. Grimes really took off last year when we shortened the rotation and he got 30mpg. The problem is now we have added DDV and Hart since then and there's no minutes to go around.

At the end of the day we have prepared ourselves for a trade, and until that trade happens where we can shorten the rotation a bit, some of these guys are going to run hot and cold. Grimes hasn't forgotten how to shoot.

Before the injury he was shooting the 3 pretty well and at pretty high volume. He wasn't doing anything else (no drives, no transition, etc.). I think he is a good enough shooter where he can do what he was doing at the start of the season without many touches and only getting 20-27 mins a night. He'd have some silent nights but overall shoot a decent amount of 3s and make a good %. If he did that and played ALL NBA level D I think he has good value doesn't score much overall. As much as a love Grimes right now he isn't doing anything on offense and I feel like his defense has slipped a little too. I'm cool with him playing through and agree he hasn't forgotten how to shoot.

Good call, forgot about that

KnickDanger @ 12/1/2023 1:19 PM
gradyandrew wrote:I think Thibs did a really great job coaching this game. Tomorrow night was always going to be tough so I think he made the right choice to up Brunson and Randle's minutes to get the win at home. After the bench player poorly in the first half, he found a winning combination of guys to close out the game.

Grimes looks like he's really struggling to find any kind of rhythm on offense. I still think he should start halves just because his low usage makes sense next to the Big 3, but unless he starts making shots the Knicks have better options to close.

I really wish broadcasts would retire the FG% stat. In an era where about 40% of FDA are 3's, the stat is very misleading. Knicks shooting 53% on 2's is a far more useful state than 47% from the field if you are going to tell us 3 pointers made an attempted after every shot.

The interview with Mitchell's roommate was "awe inspiring" to quote Clyde. Hope it ends up with some end of season accolades for Robinson.

I just read an article on this - don't know how to post sorry! - but his Louisiana high school coach's wife was dying (and has since passed) and Mitch was a regular visitor. Since she passed Mitch invited him to stay with him to put his mind in a better space. terrific.

I remember when we first drafted Mitc there were some questions about his maturity and even his mental acuity - turns out this cat is top notch and a helluva guy to root for.

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