Knicks · Devo needs more minutes! (page 1)

ramtour420 wrote:He is also our 2nd best 3 point shooter after Brunson

I think Thibs is in a losing battle with this roster. Win or lose there’s going to be a debate on who should get more or less minutes every game.

Thibs is thinking IQ would come in draining 3s but it takes time to jel with team snd warm up that jumper. By then they go on a run.

What if IQ came in for RJ? I think a small 3 guard lineup for a few mins will not kill the team. At least you have 3 legit deep ball makers on the floor, surrounding bully Randle and iHart for cleanup.

At the end of the day, we not on the level of the elite just yet. RJ needs to join the party. Need above average games from them to beat the top teams. Can’t win when one of our high volume scorers shooting bricks.

blkexec wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:He is also our 2nd best 3 point shooter after Brunson

I think Thibs is in a losing battle with this roster. Win or lose there’s going to be a debate on who should get more or less minutes every game.

Thibs is thinking IQ would come in draining 3s but it takes time to jel with team snd warm up that jumper. By then they go on a run.

What if IQ came in for RJ? I think a small 3 guard lineup for a few mins will not kill the team. At least you have 3 legit deep ball makers on the floor, surrounding bully Randle and iHart for cleanup.

At the end of the day, we not on the level of the elite just yet. RJ needs to join the party. Need above average games from them to beat the top teams. Can’t win when one of our high volume scorers shooting bricks.

Eluded to that above. feel Devo would be able to defend a SF. Play JB, IQ, Devo, Randle and IHart and see what that does. Reward RJ if he has it going. But 30 mins for RJ when struggling makes no sense. Again, may be the money side of NBA and Thibs tendency to let his starters play out of slumps.

TheMTL wrote:I like Devo. But he's taking minutes from IQ and he needs more minutes

The luxury of actually having good players.

nycericanguy wrote:at whose expense though? all our guards need more min. Hart, RJ, DDV, IQ and Grimes are all already at or near career lows in MPG.

I have no issue with Devo taking minutes from all mentioned above. Except IQ.

martin wrote:

TheMTL wrote:I like Devo. But he's taking minutes from IQ and he needs more minutes

The luxury of actually having good players.

Agree. I'm not sure if there's an easy way out as so far the minutes seem to be divided up as evenly as reasonable. Randle and Brunson are locked in at the 1 and 4 for 35 minutes a night. That means for everyone else outside of centers there are 48+ 48+13+13= 122 minutes. DDV RJ IQ jHart and Grimes are all competing for those minutes.
Unless someone gets injured, that's about 24 minutes each.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Schedule might play a part. It looks like January will be a lot easier than December, so hopefully that means Knicks can give the bench some extended run and shave a few minutes off of Randle and Brunson's rotation. Thibs might not have much of a choice in giving IQ Grimes jHart and Taj + 1 starter more run time.

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Feel Thibs tries to do the right thing by giving the players playing best the extra minutes at the end. Although, he does give the higher paid starters the benefit of the doubt in most games. And I get it, a good coach needs his so called better players to play out of slumps and to know he still trusts them. Question going forward, is who deserves that right. RJ, who was finally having a good game in some time, was placed back in the game late against Bucks, despite IQ also having a good game and Knicks rolling, and the Bucks went on to score 8 out of the next 10 points.
Don't think the solution is to give JBs minutes away but rather the FO will need to decide which players are consistently contributing more towards winning. Think that is in the works. Until then, Thibs will do a good job juggling factors mentioned above.

IMHO, right now it's JB, JR, IQ at the top of list for guys contributing to winning.
With IJart, JHart, Devo next on the list as valuable glue guys.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:at whose expense though? all our guards need more min. Hart, RJ, DDV, IQ and Grimes are all already at or near career lows in MPG.

I have no issue with Devo taking minutes from all mentioned above. Except IQ.

Its easy to fall in love with the bench players b/c not as much is expected, you can shrug off bad games and only remember the good.

But the truth is Hart and RJ are just simply better players.

I think DDV is better and more experinced than Grimes though, but Grimes also gives us more size.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

Not a believer in this at all. Check out Denver's minutes across the last years. Or Steph's minutes over the last decade. Mitch and iHart do not suffer cause they only play ~24 minutes.

Lots of high level guys do play in the 34+ minute range and that's OK, but having your best guys do 32 - if you have the depth - ain't a bad thing either.

And I wouldn't force the issue like with KP or load management; I'd want IQ to force the minutes thing cause he is playing so well. For me, the Knicks have a gap with their PG position, one who can really control the pace and passing of the team and feel like IQ has an opportunity to grow into that and take minutes that way.

And when playoffs come, best player plays, no questions asked.

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

Not a believer in this at all. Check out Denver's minutes across the last years. Or Steph's minutes over the last decade. Mitch and iHart do not suffer cause they only play ~24 minutes.

Lots of high level guys do play in the 34+ minute range and that's OK, but having your best guys do 32 - if you have the depth - ain't a bad thing either.

And I wouldn't force the issue like with KP or load management; I'd want IQ to force the minutes thing cause he is playing so well. For me, the Knicks have a gap with their PG position, one who can really control the pace and passing of the team and feel like IQ has an opportunity to grow into that and take minutes that way.

And when playoffs come, best player plays, no questions asked.

Those are unique cases, GSW has taken it easy with Steph considering his previous ankle injuries and the fact that GSW was a perennial playoff team making deep runs every year meant Curry was putting a ton of miles on his body. So that made sense and GSW was good enough to do it. And all that being said Curry was never at 30-32mpg.

Jokic is a big man and bigs tend to play less as the fast pace of today's game is too much for a 7 footer to play huge minutes. But even then he's been around 34mpg the past 4-5 years.

But Brunson playing 30-32mpg at his age with his miles would be truly unheard of for a 27 year old superstar, and we simply aren't good enough to be benching our star and leader for 18mpg. And there's simply no reason to do it.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

Not a believer in this at all. Check out Denver's minutes across the last years. Or Steph's minutes over the last decade. Mitch and iHart do not suffer cause they only play ~24 minutes.

Lots of high level guys do play in the 34+ minute range and that's OK, but having your best guys do 32 - if you have the depth - ain't a bad thing either.

And I wouldn't force the issue like with KP or load management; I'd want IQ to force the minutes thing cause he is playing so well. For me, the Knicks have a gap with their PG position, one who can really control the pace and passing of the team and feel like IQ has an opportunity to grow into that and take minutes that way.

And when playoffs come, best player plays, no questions asked.

Those are unique cases, GSW has taken it easy with Steph considering his previous ankle injuries and the fact that GSW was a perennial playoff team making deep runs every year meant Curry was putting a ton of miles on his body. So that made sense and GSW was good enough to do it. And all that being said Curry was never at 30-32mpg.

Jokic is a big man and bigs tend to play less as the fast pace of today's game is too much for a 7 footer to play huge minutes. But even then he's been around 34mpg the past 4-5 years.

But Brunson playing 30-32mpg at his age with his miles would be truly unheard of for a 27 year old superstar, and we simply aren't good enough to be benching our star and leader for 18mpg. And there's simply no reason to do it.

You are quibbling about a minute or 2 extra a game or not. Instead of my real point about IQ getting more minutes because of the type of player he could be.

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

Not a believer in this at all. Check out Denver's minutes across the last years. Or Steph's minutes over the last decade. Mitch and iHart do not suffer cause they only play ~24 minutes.

Lots of high level guys do play in the 34+ minute range and that's OK, but having your best guys do 32 - if you have the depth - ain't a bad thing either.

And I wouldn't force the issue like with KP or load management; I'd want IQ to force the minutes thing cause he is playing so well. For me, the Knicks have a gap with their PG position, one who can really control the pace and passing of the team and feel like IQ has an opportunity to grow into that and take minutes that way.

And when playoffs come, best player plays, no questions asked.

Those are unique cases, GSW has taken it easy with Steph considering his previous ankle injuries and the fact that GSW was a perennial playoff team making deep runs every year meant Curry was putting a ton of miles on his body. So that made sense and GSW was good enough to do it. And all that being said Curry was never at 30-32mpg.

Jokic is a big man and bigs tend to play less as the fast pace of today's game is too much for a 7 footer to play huge minutes. But even then he's been around 34mpg the past 4-5 years.

But Brunson playing 30-32mpg at his age with his miles would be truly unheard of for a 27 year old superstar, and we simply aren't good enough to be benching our star and leader for 18mpg. And there's simply no reason to do it.

You are quibbling about a minute or 2 extra a game or not. Instead of my real point about IQ getting more minutes because of the type of player he could be.

Nah saying we should cut Brunson to 30-32mpg is pretty extreme and would just be shooting ourselves in the foot.

I agree IQ should get more minutes, really all our guys should play more. I've been harping on that all season as I worry he could end up just asking out. IQ has only played 30 minutes ONE time the entire season, on most teams he'd be over 30 per game easy. The minutes just aren't available right now until we make a trade.

nycericanguy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:at whose expense though? all our guards need more min. Hart, RJ, DDV, IQ and Grimes are all already at or near career lows in MPG.

I have no issue with Devo taking minutes from all mentioned above. Except IQ.

Its easy to fall in love with the bench players b/c not as much is expected, you can shrug off bad games and only remember the good.

But the truth is Hart and RJ are just simply better players.

I think DDV is better and more experinced than Grimes though, but Grimes also gives us more size.

My contention is totally based on his aggressiveness, basketball IQ, three point efficiency. So disagree that JHart or RJ are close to being better than him based on these important metrics. Ones that are needed with our best players. Really do think he is more than a parenial role player. He has proven his effect on winning for some time. Including on some top championship level teams.
However, do feel RJ has to be given more time to develop. He has proven that IF he can hit the three more efficiently, he can be next level. Add his still maturing basketball IQ, and he has potential. Question is, how much patience is enough?
JJart has what Devo has, except his ability to score and hit an open jumper.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:at whose expense though? all our guards need more min. Hart, RJ, DDV, IQ and Grimes are all already at or near career lows in MPG.

I have no issue with Devo taking minutes from all mentioned above. Except IQ.

Its easy to fall in love with the bench players b/c not as much is expected, you can shrug off bad games and only remember the good.

But the truth is Hart and RJ are just simply better players.

I think DDV is better and more experinced than Grimes though, but Grimes also gives us more size.

My contention is totally based on his aggressiveness, basketball IQ, three point efficiency. So disagree that JHart or RJ are close to being better than him based on these important metrics. Ones that are needed with our best players. Really do think he is more than a parenial role player. He has proven his effect on winning for some time. Including on some top championship level teams.
However, do feel RJ has to be given more time to develop. He has proven that IF he can hit the three more efficiently, he can be next level. Add his still maturing basketball IQ, and he has potential. Question is, how much patience is enough?
JJart has what Devo has, except his ability to score and hit an open jumper.

For me, this is key. If the Knicks were still fighting to be a play-in type team - say currently sitting in the 8-11 seed area instead of steady around 6th - there is a lot more leeway.

Knicks are at or near that tipping point where straight dev reps and minutes are almost done for someone like RJ.

Hart, IQ and RJ are better all around players.