I wrote a longer post that got deleted before I could post it.
To re-hash, the general idea would be to send Donovan to the Nets, Mikal to us and spare parts to the Cavs. More specifically...
NYK gets: Mikal Bridges and Ricky Rubio's dead money
BKN gets: Donovan Mitchell
CLE gets: Cam Johnson, Quentin. Grimes, Duece McBride, Jericho Sims, our 2024 first, DALs 2024 first and cash.
Mitchell gives BKN a legitimate star they can build an offense around, who is far more apt in that regard than Bridges. He is also BFF with Royce O'neale, which should allow him to be open to the idea of being a Net as opposed to a Knick. IMO both O'neale and Dorian Finney-Smith are ideal guard-forward combos to pair next to an undersized Mitchell. Cam Thomas is a useful facsimile to Mitchell off the bench and Nic Claxton should be able to reprise some of the Rudy Gobert role that covered for Mitchell's deficiencies on defense. With Ben Simmons' max and Spencer Dinwiddie's contract set to expire, I could see the Nets retooling well enough to build a competitive team in the coming years.
CLE does the deal to save face. It's a tough-pill to swallow for losing leverage on Mitchell but comparable enough to what they gave up to get him; enough so to still be able to flesh out their roster around a Garland-Mobley-Allen core. They'd add 4 rotation players that are all capable shooters, good defenders and smart enough to keep them competitive. They'd also have some tools to add more depth with the two first rounders we'd give them.
We do it to double-down on our identity. Bridges is one of the best defenders in the league and could give us the potential to be THE best in the league. He also has muscle-memory with our crew as a former Wildcat, so the fit offensively should be seemless. I think he can do everything he's currently doing as a lead man in BKN here, even though he'd be a no.3 option. We might not be the most talented in the league but I think we could platoon our way through the competition because of how unconventional we'd be on both ends...sorta like that 2004 Pistons champion.
Thoughts?
The problem I have with this is the Nets would want to pair Mitchell with Bridges. Swapping them keeps them in their same poor situation. So with that in mind I don't think this proposal is likely to happen.
Clean wrote:The problem I have with this is the Nets would want to pair Mitchell with Bridges. Swapping them keeps them in their same poor situation. So with that in mind I don't think this proposal is likely to happen.
That's an ideal but how often is an ideal viable? The logic of pairing those two together makes perfect sense and would be a seemless fit. Unfortunately for the Nets, they lack the resources alone to facilitate it happening, especially if we're prepared to play spoiler.
To be fair, I think an exchange like this is more of a lateral move for them but a necessary one. Perception is reality and Mitchell's scoring prowess over Bridges makes people view him as more additive than the latter; at least for marketing purposes/revenue. I also think that the hype of a Mitchell puts the Nets in a better situation to attract a star caliber player since....players are dumb (see Kevin Durant and Gilbert Arenas).
It's why I believe we'd have traction for a deal, even if it was an either-or proposition between both players.
we have more picks we could include in a deal like this- so maybe a pick or two goes to the Nets, so somewhat lateral but with future to fill in holes.
If we were to add bridges to the core we have with JB, Randle, OG- that would be outstanding.
franco12 wrote:we have more picks we could include in a deal like this- so maybe a pick or two goes to the Nets, so somewhat lateral but with future to fill in holes.If we were to add bridges to the core we have with JB, Randle, OG- that would be outstanding.
I'd want to keep those picks if/when Joel Embiid demands a trade. People make the assumption that he's off the table because they are winning. The thing is they've performed at this pace EVERY year in spite of the drama. The difference for them needs to be in the playoffs, which I believe they will flame out in yet again. And with the CAA connection, I think it's only a matter of time before Embiid as a Knick becomes a reality.
Besides, why would the Nets need picks? They are getting the "better" player and are clearing out a logjam in the process. No Mitchell and they are destined to forever be a 9th/10th seed, as they currently are.
Would have had to be IQ, OBi, RJ, 2 1st and 2nd for Bridges on that contract.
Better deal for BK - Johnson, 4 firsts from PHX and keeping those guys together
MS wrote:Would have had to be IQ, OBi, RJ, 2 1st and 2nd for Bridges on that contract.Better deal for BK - Johnson, 4 firsts from PHX and keeping those guys together
CLE never paid that to get Donovan there in the first place. How could they demand that with him years older and them about to lose cost-control of him ESPECIALLY with it being known he only wants NYC as a destination?
Can someone explain how a player who is best as a role player and who is only putting up numbers because of his high shot count on a bad team is worth ALL those assets?
You said "Mitchell gives BKN a legitimate star they can build an offense around, who is far more apt in that regard than Bridges". That is EXACTLY why we would not give up that much for anyone but him. Or another TRUE game changer.
You mentioned the "muscle memory fit". We already have that in Devo, who just put up 38 and is fitting seamlessly with SL.
Bridges best role is as a role player. Do agree that he would be an upgrade for defense. And that it is my only concern in pairing JB with DM. But ee need a legitimate 1, top 20, "finisher". I would wait till the summer and see what happens with the DM situation. Good chance if he says he is not extending and wants to come to NY, we get him at a discount. Or we get Murray at reasonable cost. Giving up that many assets for Bridges is the desperate, short sighted move of Knicks past.
HofstraBBall wrote:Can someone explain how a player who is best as a role player and who is only putting up numbers because of his high shot count on a bad team is worth ALL those assets?You said "Mitchell gives BKN a legitimate star they can build an offense around, who is far more apt in that regard than Bridges". That is EXACTLY why we would not give up that much for anyone but him. Or another TRUE game changer.
You mentioned the "muscle memory fit". We already have that in Devo, who just put up 38 and is fitting seamlessly with SL.
Bridges best role is as a role player. Do agree that he would be an upgrade for defense. And that it is my only concern in pairing JB with DM. But ee need a legitimate 1, top 20, "finisher". I would wait till the summer and see what happens with the DM situation. Good chance if he says he is not extending and wants to come to NY, we get him at a discount. Or we get Murray at reasonable cost. Giving up that many assets for Bridges is the desperate, short sighted move of Knicks past.
Are we really giving up all that much? I think it's hard to argue that Quentin Grimes is a better player or option than Mikal (even with cost as a factor). I'm a major McBride-optimist but he's expendable with a guy like Jalen Brunson already on the team and an excess of potential backup guards available. I'm also a big fan of Jirecho Sims but we already have our pivots in Mitchell Robinson and Isiah Hartenstein; with Precious Acuhiaw and Taj Gibson able to fill in in a pinch...and a possible Joel Embiid looming. Parting with the picks hurt BUT our 2032 first will become available to trade right after this 2024 draft. So what are we losing that is essential?
No, CLE would just want Mikal themselves, and the Nets want to PAIR Mikal with DM. they aren't going to mortgage whats left of their future for DM without Mikal.
nycericanguy wrote:No, CLE would just want Mikal themselves, and the Nets want to PAIR Mikal with DM. they aren't going to mortgage whats left of their future for DM without Mikal.
But would Mikal want CLE? Remember that he only has 2 seasons left on his contract, which makes him a threat to walk and/or be a discontent in the interim.
As much as he'd fit like a glove with their roster, he's already 27 years old and not apart of their core's timeline. I doubt the Cavs would want to double-down on the mistake they made with Mitchell, when they already have two budding stars in Garland and Mobley that just need time. Guys like Grimes, McBride and Sims (as well as picks) serve that end. Cam Johnson is also 27 but at least he's on cost-control for the next 3.5 seasons and likely to be a good soldier during that time.
I think the Nets consider Mikal untouchable. And if the Cavs were looking to trade Mitchell they would certainly want Mikal back and not spare parts.
DLeethal wrote:I think the Nets consider Mikal untouchable. And if the Cavs were looking to trade Mitchell they would certainly want Mikal back and not spare parts.
Is there ever such a thing as a player that's "untouchable" on a team set to be a perennial 9th/10th seed? Superstars get traded...Mikal will definitely be available for the right price
Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues.
I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.
EwingsGlass wrote:Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues. I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.
Excellent point. Wizards could use a facilitator...and tank commander for next season. Unfortunately, they won't have cap space or bad contracts of their own to take Simmons outright without compensation. And I think the Nets will need to hang onto those picks to acquire the talent they need to build around Mitchell. How do we split the baby and get Simmons to WAS?
NardDogNation wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues. I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.
Excellent point. Wizards could use a facilitator...and tank commander for next season. Unfortunately, they won't have cap space or bad contracts of their own to take Simmons outright without compensation. And I think the Nets will need to hang onto those picks to acquire the talent they need to build around Mitchell. How do we split the baby and get Simmons to WAS?
Utah, Portland and San Antonio have the salaries to make it work. But how much draft capital would it take to entice them?
NardDogNation wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues. I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.
Excellent point. Wizards could use a facilitator...and tank commander for next season. Unfortunately, they won't have cap space or bad contracts of their own to take Simmons outright without compensation. And I think the Nets will need to hang onto those picks to acquire the talent they need to build around Mitchell. How do we split the baby and get Simmons to WAS?
I thought you could have 2 players with that designation on one team?
Who else besides Simmons has one for Brooklyn?
They gave up a fortune
Cavaliers receive:
Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen - 23.2pts, 8.6rbs 48% - allstar
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick
They will want the house here, an all star, a nice rope player, 3 1st and 2 swaps is bananas.
NardDogNation wrote:I wrote a longer post that got deleted before I could post it.To re-hash, the general idea would be to send Donovan to the Nets, Mikal to us and spare parts to the Cavs. More specifically...
NYK gets: Mikal Bridges and Ricky Rubio's dead money
BKN gets: Donovan Mitchell
CLE gets: Cam Johnson, Quentin. Grimes, Duece McBride, Jericho Sims, our 2024 first, DALs 2024 first and cash.
Mitchell gives BKN a legitimate star they can build an offense around, who is far more apt in that regard than Bridges. He is also BFF with Royce O'neale, which should allow him to be open to the idea of being a Net as opposed to a Knick. IMO both O'neale and Dorian Finney-Smith are ideal guard-forward combos to pair next to an undersized Mitchell. Cam Thomas is a useful facsimile to Mitchell off the bench and Nic Claxton should be able to reprise some of the Rudy Gobert role that covered for Mitchell's deficiencies on defense. With Ben Simmons' max and Spencer Dinwiddie's contract set to expire, I could see the Nets retooling well enough to build a competitive team in the coming years.
CLE does the deal to save face. It's a tough-pill to swallow for losing leverage on Mitchell but comparable enough to what they gave up to get him; enough so to still be able to flesh out their roster around a Garland-Mobley-Allen core. They'd add 4 rotation players that are all capable shooters, good defenders and smart enough to keep them competitive. They'd also have some tools to add more depth with the two first rounders we'd give them.
We do it to double-down on our identity. Bridges is one of the best defenders in the league and could give us the potential to be THE best in the league. He also has muscle-memory with our crew as a former Wildcat, so the fit offensively should be seemless. I think he can do everything he's currently doing as a lead man in BKN here, even though he'd be a no.3 option. We might not be the most talented in the league but I think we could platoon our way through the competition because of how unconventional we'd be on both ends...sorta like that 2004 Pistons champion.
Thoughts?
I am 100% behind your thinking. Been in the back of my mind for a while too as a really good possibility.
Prob won't happen until this summer or the following season when Grimes extension kicks in and Donovan pushes for something to happen.
MS wrote:They gave up a fortuneCavaliers receive:
Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen - 23.2pts, 8.6rbs 48% - allstar
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick
They will want the house here, an all star, a nice rope player, 3 1st and 2 swaps is bananas.
The law of diminishing negotiation leverage will apply in this case. Same as it did for OG and the ask of too many first rounders.
Once Donovan and Mikal get closer to their walk years, everything goes to hell for the seller.
NardDogNation wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Can someone explain how a player who is best as a role player and who is only putting up numbers because of his high shot count on a bad team is worth ALL those assets?You said "Mitchell gives BKN a legitimate star they can build an offense around, who is far more apt in that regard than Bridges". That is EXACTLY why we would not give up that much for anyone but him. Or another TRUE game changer.
You mentioned the "muscle memory fit". We already have that in Devo, who just put up 38 and is fitting seamlessly with SL.
Bridges best role is as a role player. Do agree that he would be an upgrade for defense. And that it is my only concern in pairing JB with DM. But ee need a legitimate 1, top 20, "finisher". I would wait till the summer and see what happens with the DM situation. Good chance if he says he is not extending and wants to come to NY, we get him at a discount. Or we get Murray at reasonable cost. Giving up that many assets for Bridges is the desperate, short sighted move of Knicks past.
Are we really giving up all that much? I think it's hard to argue that Quentin Grimes is a better player or option than Mikal (even with cost as a factor). I'm a major McBride-optimist but he's expendable with a guy like Jalen Brunson already on the team and an excess of potential backup guards available. I'm also a big fan of Jirecho Sims but we already have our pivots in Mitchell Robinson and Isiah Hartenstein; with Precious Acuhiaw and Taj Gibson able to fill in in a pinch...and a possible Joel Embiid looming. Parting with the picks hurt BUT our 2032 first will become available to trade right after this 2024 draft. So what are we losing that is essential?
You kinda of answered it here. We would be giving up enough and adding enough salary to prevent us from going after TRUE elite players. Ie. Embid, DM.
But as you suggested, essentially we would give up 3 firsts and 2 seconds. Grimes considered a first and sims and Deuce seconds. Why not keep those for someone who can truly get us over the second round hump?
