OG has barely even been here for a wake up call and this team has transformed overnight. It’s hard to even imagine his impact after he has had time to learn the plays and practice with the team. The kid literally packed a bag, woke up and suited up and we are 4-0. He looks like he is trying to think his way through the game right now. What does a comfortable OG look like? I’m looking forward to 15-20 pts, 4-5 assists and 5-6 rebounds. All this on efficient shooting. The kid is a team first player. I’m loving it
OG is an elite defensive player but his offensive game is very limited. He's a 7 year pro and he is what he is, he's not going to score much more than 13-15ppg here, and he's never averaged anywhere near 4-5apg. That's not a part of his game, and even less so here where we have two high usage guys.
I'll be happy if he can give us 15ppg on near 40% from 3 with DPOY type defense and most of all stay healthy. He shouldn't be looking to create though, we have much better options for that.
Now imagine this team with a healthy Mitch beasting with the bench unit.
nycericanguy wrote:OG is an elite defensive player but his offensive game is very limited. He's a 7 year pro and he is what he is, he's not going to score much more than 13-15ppg here, and he's never averaged anywhere near 4-5apg. That's not a part of his game, and even less so here where we have two high usage guys.I'll be happy if he can give us 15ppg on near 40% from 3 with DPOY type defense and most of all stay healthy. He shouldn't be looking to create though, we have much better options for that.
You see, I think he can run pnr in which case he would get assists. He is an underrated passer. He won't need to dribble around to get assists
I think we are already creating a problem that doesn't exist with this OG-offense thing. This offense is absolutely humming. OG doesn't force anything. I don't think he cares about his offense if the team is performing at a really high level, he's gonna get paid regardless. His overly-passive approach so far tells me his priority is definitely not trying to "get his". And it's a perfect mentality fit next to Brunson and Randle.
OG is most definitely NOT a playmaker or assist guy. He's clunky when he has to put the ball on the floor and try to make a play in traffic. He's a finisher - be it in the paint or from kickouts. He is the recipient of a playmaker, not the playmaker himself, which is why he fits great next to 2 playmakers like Brunson and Randle.
DLeethal wrote:I think we are already creating a problem that doesn't exist with this OG-offense thing. This offense is absolutely humming. OG doesn't force anything. I don't think he cares about his offense if the team is performing at a really high level, he's gonna get paid regardless. His overly-passive approach so far tells me his priority is definitely not trying to "get his". And it's a perfect mentality fit next to Brunson and Randle.
There is no problem, the offense is humming and playing more up tempo, but there is more to OG then standing in the corner. Over time they will integrate him into the offense. It would also be Thibs priority to get Ogugua's defense right first. As he gets more comfortable and it is more instinctive where he needs to be, when he needs to cut, running secondary actions etc....he will score more. The shots will be there for him and with his efficiency he will make a lot of them. Putting a ceiling on his offensive production after 11 days, 4 games its very short sided. He's going to avg 15-20 I guarantee it
nycericanguy wrote:OG is an elite defensive player but his offensive game is very limited. He's a 7 year pro and he is what he is, he's not going to score much more than 13-15ppg here, and he's never averaged anywhere near 4-5apg. That's not a part of his game, and even less so here where we have two high usage guys.I'll be happy if he can give us 15ppg on near 40% from 3 with DPOY type defense and most of all stay healthy. He shouldn't be looking to create though, we have much better options for that.
Hes averaged 17 & 16 last 2 season. He should get to similar production with us. No reason for him not to other than ball jocking.
He takes about 6 threes a game and hits a little over 2. So far he is at 4 threes while hitting 1.5. That will be the 16pts.
DLeethal wrote:OG is most definitely NOT a playmaker or assist guy. He's clunky when he has to put the ball on the floor and try to make a play in traffic. He's a finisher - be it in the paint or from kickouts. He is the recipient of a playmaker, not the playmaker himself, which is why he fits great next to 2 playmakers like Brunson and Randle.
He is all of that but I will argue there is more to be unlocked. I might of gone overboard on the assist totals but I believe he will assist more as we develop secondary actions with him
newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:OG is an elite defensive player but his offensive game is very limited. He's a 7 year pro and he is what he is, he's not going to score much more than 13-15ppg here, and he's never averaged anywhere near 4-5apg. That's not a part of his game, and even less so here where we have two high usage guys.I'll be happy if he can give us 15ppg on near 40% from 3 with DPOY type defense and most of all stay healthy. He shouldn't be looking to create though, we have much better options for that.
Hes averaged 17 & 16 last 2 season. He should get to similar production with us. No reason for him not to other than ball jocking.
He takes about 6 threes a game and hits a little over 2. So far he is at 4 threes while hitting 1.5. That will be the 16pts.
He was more of a focal point those two years in TOR, played alot of minutes and shot alot.
This season in TOR with the emergence of Barnes he was down to 15ppg and that was despite playing big minutes. We have TWO 25ppg scorers here. I don't see it. His offensive bag is very limited.
But really his value is the same to us whether he scores 14ppg or 17ppg... he's not here for scoring. he's here for defense, floor spacing (especially his elite corner 3's) and for cuts to the basket. Not to be a playmaker or a scorer.
I think the criticisms of OG’s offensive skills are a bit premature. He certainly shows a little hesitation when he gets the ball and seems to pass up shots a little too easily, but for the most part he has been really good at finding Hart when the defensive 5 collapses on him. He puts himself in position for easy layups but the offense doesn’t seem ready for that yet (they will, they find Hart).
But OG has been behind ball dominant players his entire career (FVV, Barnes, Siakam, Brunson, Randle). I think the Knicks need to work on a few plays that will swing the ball to him in the corner, a simple PnR/PnP, I think Devo would be a good PNR counterpart for him. Both move without the ball so well. And I think Randle needs to be looking for OG on back door cuts. Sounds obvious.
I think All NBA Randle is a 24/10/8 guy. He’s got a few more assists in him.
My fear is that the Knicks fail to use OG to his strengths.
EwingsGlass wrote:I think the criticisms of OG’s offensive skills are a bit premature. He certainly shows a little hesitation when he gets the ball and seems to pass up shots a little too easily, but for the most part he has been really good at finding Hart when the defensive 5 collapses on him. He puts himself in position for easy layups but the offense doesn’t seem ready for that yet (they will, they find Hart). But OG has been behind ball dominant players his entire career (FVV, Barnes, Siakam, Brunson, Randle). I think the Knicks need to work on a few plays that will swing the ball to him in the corner, a simple PnR/PnP, I think Devo would be a good PNR counterpart for him. Both move without the ball so well. And I think Randle needs to be looking for OG on back door cuts. Sounds obvious.
I think All NBA Randle is a 24/10/8 guy. He’s got a few more assists in him.
My fear is that the Knicks fail to use OG to his strengths.
seems teams respect OG in the corner and this is opening up for others. That is not by accident.
I do agree they will work on fulfilling his goal to be a greater part of the offense and perhaps he too will rise up and take the brass ring.
We have the starphuch of all CAA consipracies! CAA, Sam Rose, Leon and Thibs all in synch. A master plan bigger than the KNicks and toronto in the courtroom. This was not about the suits, it was Massai and Leon getting a mutual beneficial deal done.
Raptors to get clarity with one part done and now can consider the Siakim issue. extend him or trade him.
Two nice wins back to back! Must see tv!
Nalod wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I think the criticisms of OG’s offensive skills are a bit premature. He certainly shows a little hesitation when he gets the ball and seems to pass up shots a little too easily, but for the most part he has been really good at finding Hart when the defensive 5 collapses on him. He puts himself in position for easy layups but the offense doesn’t seem ready for that yet (they will, they find Hart). But OG has been behind ball dominant players his entire career (FVV, Barnes, Siakam, Brunson, Randle). I think the Knicks need to work on a few plays that will swing the ball to him in the corner, a simple PnR/PnP, I think Devo would be a good PNR counterpart for him. Both move without the ball so well. And I think Randle needs to be looking for OG on back door cuts. Sounds obvious.
I think All NBA Randle is a 24/10/8 guy. He’s got a few more assists in him.
My fear is that the Knicks fail to use OG to his strengths.
seems teams respect OG in the corner and this is opening up for others. That is not by accident.
I do agree they will work on fulfilling his goal to be a greater part of the offense and perhaps he too will rise up and take the brass ring.
We have the starphuch of all CAA consipracies! CAA, Sam Rose, Leon and Thibs all in synch. A master plan bigger than the KNicks and toronto in the courtroom. This was not about the suits, it was Massai and Leon getting a mutual beneficial deal done.
Raptors to get clarity with one part done and now can consider the Siakim issue. extend him or trade him.
Two nice wins back to back! Must see tv!
Totally agree that the Wiz were marking him in the corner. That extra space must feel like a new toy for Randle.
nycericanguy wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:OG is an elite defensive player but his offensive game is very limited. He's a 7 year pro and he is what he is, he's not going to score much more than 13-15ppg here, and he's never averaged anywhere near 4-5apg. That's not a part of his game, and even less so here where we have two high usage guys.I'll be happy if he can give us 15ppg on near 40% from 3 with DPOY type defense and most of all stay healthy. He shouldn't be looking to create though, we have much better options for that.
Hes averaged 17 & 16 last 2 season. He should get to similar production with us. No reason for him not to other than ball jocking.
He takes about 6 threes a game and hits a little over 2. So far he is at 4 threes while hitting 1.5. That will be the 16pts.
He was more of a focal point those two years in TOR, played alot of minutes and shot alot.
This season in TOR with the emergence of Barnes he was down to 15ppg and that was despite playing big minutes. We have TWO 25ppg scorers here. I don't see it. His offensive bag is very limited.
But really his value is the same to us whether he scores 14ppg or 17ppg... he's not here for scoring. he's here for defense, floor spacing (especially his elite corner 3's) and for cuts to the basket. Not to be a playmaker or a scorer.
He averaged 17pts 2 years in a row where FVV put up 20, Siakam put up 22-24, Gary Trent jr put up 17-18, & Barnes put up 15. He has put up 16-17pts three consecutive years while holding the same offensive limitations in terms of ball handling an creation. Those 3 years hold more weight than the 30 games he's played this year. He will continue to get 35+ mins a game under Thibs. 16-17ppg is a safe bet for him while guys who will get less mins will probably be the ones that take the hit on offensive production once he and his teammates get comfortable. His first game with us he put up 17pts with open 3s and getting fed on a couple cuts to the basket. He just won't be a night in and night out 17. He will be 10,11 pts than an explosion where he hits 7 threes for 30pts another night.
Very rare in general for a team to hold 3 20pt scorers to begin with. Only one ball. OG is the hard to find 3rd option. Effective without the ball in his hands but will still get his 16pts from the kickouts, transition, broken plays etc all within the flow of the game. Shawn Marion is the standard. Many players that make it to the league have been the featured scorers on their teams dating back to elementary school. They end up having trouble impacting games within a role while also not being a good enough as a featured scorer at this level to be that.
martin wrote:Now imagine this team with a healthy Mitch beasting with the bench unit.
Are they going to pay two centers between 36 to 40 mill per season…..not sure about that long term
ekstarks94 wrote:martin wrote:Now imagine this team with a healthy Mitch beasting with the bench unit.
Are they going to pay two centers between 36 to 40 mill per season…..not sure about that long term
35mm per position platoon is about right for now. Would be approximately 170mm.
EwingsGlass wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:martin wrote:Now imagine this team with a healthy Mitch beasting with the bench unit.
Are they going to pay two centers between 36 to 40 mill per season…..not sure about that long term
35mm per position platoon is about right for now. Would be approximately 170mm.
Is it a coincidence that after removing Mitch and RJ from the SL that we are now playing with pace? I’ve been listening to Thibs screening GO! GO! From the sideline for 3 years and all of a sudden like magic they started listening? Mitch might have a hard time fitting back into the SL not to mention that OG and iHart seem to have high BBIQ and fit with heady players like Ragu and Brunson. I love Mitch but I just don’t see him getting his starting job back
ekstarks94 wrote:martin wrote:Now imagine this team with a healthy Mitch beasting with the bench unit.
Are they going to pay two centers between 36 to 40 mill per season…..not sure about that long term
Mitch makes about 15 mil a year. Do you really think there’s a team out there with Cap space willing to pay Hartenstein 21-26 mil per year ?
ekstarks94 wrote:martin wrote:Now imagine this team with a healthy Mitch beasting with the bench unit.
Are they going to pay two centers between 36 to 40 mill per season…..not sure about that long term
Mitch makes $14M next year, highest iHart can be offered by Knicks is $16M.
martin wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:martin wrote:Now imagine this team with a healthy Mitch beasting with the bench unit.
Are they going to pay two centers between 36 to 40 mill per season…..not sure about that long term
Mitch makes $14M next year, highest iHart can be offered by Knicks is $16M.
If we can lock him up at $16M per, you do that deal all day long.
Then we have all value contracts and it comes down to what it takes to resign OG. I think $25M is really more than he's worth, and I hope the Knicks can convince him to be part of the bigger picture here in NY. No way I would give him 30M or more.
