martin wrote:Clean wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Good job taking care of business without Brunson. I was a little worried being down 4 at halftime but kudos to the team for stepping up. Deuce played really well in his first start. He's honestly soften the blow losing IQ. I'm getting to a point where I kind of don't want to trade for a vet. Let Deuce continue to play and grow. And Hartenstein with another 20 rebound and 4 blocks game. Insane how well he's played filling in for Rob!And congrats to Thibs on 500 wins. That's a huge accomplishment in an era where most coaches don't last. Thibs is not perfect and he does things I don't like or agree with - like playing Deuce and Hartenstein the entire second half last night - but overall he's done a very good job of establishing the culture and winning. To make the playoffs 3 out of 4 years seemed like an impossible task before he got here.
I have been a McBride backer from draft but even I have to admit we need a vet that can create for himself/others. The turnovers this game alone is proof of that While McBrides shot is going we good but I am not yet ready to trust he can constantly breakdown a defense and we will need that in the playoffs.
Trust today and tomorrow versus allowing a player to develop into that trust.
Hard balance
I think the player that we have to decide on developing or not isnt Deuce, but Grimes. Grimes is moving down the pecking order. He has to slow down offensively and be more than a spot up shooter in his bench role.
At this point if you could trade Fournier and Grimes for Brogdon that sound like a no brainer. I think you could still develop Deuce, but Brogdon is a secondary creator and better shooter than Grimes. He brings everything think Quickley did in his role here with more size. I still think Deuce plays a role in the rotation even if he we make that trade.
Grimes is better than this. I know he can drive and dish and has better instincts, but he seems ton just be pressing too hard and playing too fast. He needs to slow down and make better decisions.
Fans don't trust what has yet to not happen.
The hard part about the NBA is figuring shit out and hope it executes.
IQ was not ready to be the IQ it took 3 years to cultivate.
Same for Deuce. In fact, if you recall the interview with one of his coaches it was projected it would take two years of him sitting and learning. Duece only had one good year to show up in college and it was thought if he stayed one more year he'd be a first round pick, not second. Big money difference. He was cool to get to next level and learn.
This prophecy played out or as they say "Executed".
Fans tend to think a trade can solve most things. Picks are abstract so they are currency for the fan to dismiss.
I don't think we are even one player away from really contending. What Nalod saw in Dallas was a team figured out knicks new look and and executed to beat us. Last night a team of vast inferior talent but well coached hung in there.
What fans don' always get is talent alone does not win. We can add more but if the aggregate does not equate to a greater mass then its not great. Rj and IQ alone are more "talented" than OG but the intangible of what OG excels at allows others to expand.
FO plays 3d chess while fans play checkers.
Nalod does not believe we are close to contending but concedes in the age of parity you might if you stay close and Lady Luck arrives. The game becomes to not box the roster in and lose flexibility. I can't piece together what knocks are doing long term but we seem to be well run and thoughtful and prepared well for the current CBA. Signing the wrong star can mess it up long term. We have a word for that.
ToddTT wrote:
Realizing I have a proclivity for plastic uniforms
ToddTT wrote:
Hip check in the corner pocket
ToddTT wrote:ToddTT wrote:We are all witnesses.
Flynnsanity.
In case it wasn't clear.
In all seriousness he looked like a normal point guard with some quickness, handles and passing —— he looked solid if not small.
He’s obviously superior at getting into paint and passing vs Deuce and he’s quicker. Deuce is best off ball offensively and on ball defensively.
Clean wrote:Just tuned in and the first thing I see when i am trying to catchup to what the heck has happened is effort issues with Randle again. I gave him another chance.
Yes - this is where you watch him and at least for me I start to think you can’t win with a star player with this lack of effort / focus.
The whole team was half-assing entire 1st half —— guess if there was ever a game to sleepwalk thru this was it but after 44 1st qtr points vs Mavs you might want better early effort.
LivingLegend wrote:ToddTT wrote:ToddTT wrote:We are all witnesses.
Flynnsanity.
In case it wasn't clear.
In all seriousness he looked like a normal point guard with some quickness, handles and passing —— he looked solid if not small.
He’s obviously superior at getting into paint and passing vs Deuce and he’s quicker. Deuce is best off ball offensively and on ball defensively.
You watch your wh*** mouth!!! 
martin wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Who said we shouldn't trade for a bonafide scorer for off the bench ? Still feel that way ?
I started out all hot for Murray and now I’m not sure —— outside of Brunson scoring/shooting he’d be head/shoulders above all our other guards/wings from a skill,/talent perspective but I’m just not sure.
The Knicks issue and it’s been clear from day 1 —- if we don’t bring defensive intensity we get scored on like a hooker but if we bring it defensively we are a force as a team —— Julius really is a key because his effort level is fluctuating again.
EwingsGlass wrote:Clean wrote:Just tuned in and the first thing I see when i am trying to catchup to what the heck has happened is effort issues with Randle again. I gave him another chance.
Was feeling the same way. He’s having a bad game and making it worse with his attitude.
Does what he wants when he wants — you get good and bad with Julius it’s not something I think you see from historically great players who typically bring it every night.
Alpha1971 wrote:Boy going to miss I Heart next season.
I would bet on us missing Mitch next season but could be wrong.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:19 for Deuce
This was weird the Flynn benching after great 1st half minutes.
Deuce while a favorite and a GREAT kid —- I think his lack of creativity, penetration, distribution would hurt us in playoffs.
He;s fine as quasi pg and off ball but teams will bog us down in playoffs with Deuce on ball — I think.
EwingsGlass wrote:MM was really impressive. IHart and DDV also showed out. That is all.
Donte’s defense is actually pretty awful - he’s just gambling on passing lanes and getting beat all over.
I mean just sit tight take calculated gambles and play solid positional defense.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Good job taking care of business without Brunson. I was a little worried being down 4 at halftime but kudos to the team for stepping up. Deuce played really well in his first start. He's honestly soften the blow losing IQ. I'm getting to a point where I kind of don't want to trade for a vet. Let Deuce continue to play and grow. And Hartenstein with another 20 rebound and 4 blocks game. Insane how well he's played filling in for Rob!And congrats to Thibs on 500 wins. That's a huge accomplishment in an era where most coaches don't last. Thibs is not perfect and he does things I don't like or agree with - like playing Deuce and Hartenstein the entire second half last night - but overall he's done a very good job of establishing the culture and winning. To make the playoffs 3 out of 4 years seemed like an impossible task before he got here.
I have been a McBride backer from draft but even I have to admit we need a vet that can create for himself/others. The turnovers this game alone is proof of that While McBrides shot is going we good but I am not yet ready to trust he can constantly breakdown a defense and we will need that in the playoffs.
Trust today and tomorrow versus allowing a player to develop into that trust.
Hard balance
I think the player that we have to decide on developing or not isnt Deuce, but Grimes. Grimes is moving down the pecking order. He has to slow down offensively and be more than a spot up shooter in his bench role.
At this point if you could trade Fournier and Grimes for Brogdon that sound like a no brainer. I think you could still develop Deuce, but Brogdon is a secondary creator and better shooter than Grimes. He brings everything think Quickley did in his role here with more size. I still think Deuce plays a role in the rotation even if he we make that trade.
Grimes is better than this. I know he can drive and dish and has better instincts, but he seems ton just be pressing too hard and playing too fast. He needs to slow down and make better decisions.
Indeed about Deuce. If Deuce is a 3 pt shooter he may be more valuable then Grimes. Deuce can disrupt the point of attack and if we have a ball handler with height like Brogdon or Clarkson Deuce guards the opposing ball handler and the bigger guard defense the opposing off guard. I like Grimes and if we can keep him, I'd celebrate. But Grimes and his skill set can be replaced in the off season.
martin wrote:
You watch the way this cat is playing and compare him to Julius and I at least wonder is Julius really more important to this team vs everything I-Hart is doing.
LivingLegend wrote:ToddTT wrote:
Hip check in the corner pocket
When that beautiful ebony goddess ages she will have the nicest set of back fat... Yummy 😋
nycericanguy wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Team scored 106 pts and had how many turn overs against a team missing 9 rotation players. Geezus we need a third bonafide scorer to beat playoffs teams. Deuce showed he can shoot. Pair Deuce with Clarkson or Brogdon off the bench and that's fine, but we need a guy like those vets at the very least. Prefer a bigger acquisition talent wise. Yet, at the very least need a Brogdon or Clarkson for the playoffs.
DAL just got smoked at home to a NOLA team without Ingram, Zion and CJ and on a 2nd night of a B2B. I'm happy with the W
We need a third scorer. Convince yourself with whatever argument comes across your head at the time. We need a third scorer with gravitas for the team to be successful in the playoffs. Your a fan of Deuce and Grimes fine. If we go forward with them in the playoffs we will get smoked. Not debating it with you. You just like to have a contrary opinion and like to defend your favorite players and that's great. I get your MO. So I won't bother debating you, I know what your going to post before you even type it. Just don't be surprised if the FO doesn't do what you think and brings in someone else.
yikes breathe.
we absolutely should go for DJM right now and I've been saying that since day 2 of the OG trade so not sure what this post is even about...lol. i literally started the 23/7/7 trade for DJM thread.
The search is not simply limited to Murray. I'm all in for Murray but Leon Rose tends to shop with budget in mind. Don't cry into your beer when it's Rozier, Clarkson, Brogdon or someone else. Team is likely going to try to save on the margins for a guard and try to bring in a big for the assets it would have cost for Murray alone. Deuce is ok and would look better playing off the ball on offense with any of the guards mentioned above while being able to defend the point of attack. For me the team is likely amenable to trading Grimes, as Deuce can do what Grimes can if his 3 pt shot is falling. We can grab a back up SG in the off-season if Grimes is traded.
I doubt it, this regime has never benched young players for 30+ year olds. Leon shops on a budget but he also does so with the future in mind.
I don't see us benching the youth and bringing in a PG unless it's a very substantial upgrade AND someone who can be here long term.
Rozier maybe, he fits the bill though I think DJM is just a better player and fit. But Clarkson and Brogdon i'd be very surprised.
Never benches youth for vets ? What about ELF and Burke's over IQ ? Plus team has moved beyond development stage, they are trying to win now, Development stage is over.
IQ was playing 20+mpg every game from day 1, he was never benched. the truth is he wasn't very good his 1st two seasons.
all that being said, we moved on from Elf & Burks pretty quickly pun intended.
We are in the win now stage yes, but Rose isn't shortsighted.
Ok bro,... Have a great Sunday. I just hope they make a trade asap DJM will be acquired by another team who will pay more.
if we really want him I think we can beat just about any offer, question is how much do we want him?
We could offer Grimes, the MIL 1st, the DET 1st and even the WSH 1st (or the two seconds it turns into).
I mean that's the equivalent of about 4 1st rounders in value depending on how they value Grimes. I don't see any other team beating that.
We are a good match b/c ATL could really use a SG like Grimes next to Trae, AND they could really use some draft replenishment since they are without picks in '25 and '27. And they are also looking to rebuild so some other teams offering win now pieces instead of picks might not be as attractive.
You think so ?? Hope your correct. However, you think with your fandom first. Other teams exist and have their needs and assets. Think of the Nets for example they wouldn't want a young guard to go with their young core and they have lots of picks, better picks and players to throw in. Other teams aren't waiting around for the Knicks and their timetable.
Clean wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Good job taking care of business without Brunson. I was a little worried being down 4 at halftime but kudos to the team for stepping up. Deuce played really well in his first start. He's honestly soften the blow losing IQ. I'm getting to a point where I kind of don't want to trade for a vet. Let Deuce continue to play and grow. And Hartenstein with another 20 rebound and 4 blocks game. Insane how well he's played filling in for Rob!And congrats to Thibs on 500 wins. That's a huge accomplishment in an era where most coaches don't last. Thibs is not perfect and he does things I don't like or agree with - like playing Deuce and Hartenstein the entire second half last night - but overall he's done a very good job of establishing the culture and winning. To make the playoffs 3 out of 4 years seemed like an impossible task before he got here.
I have been a McBride backer from draft but even I have to admit we need a vet that can create for himself/others. The turnovers this game alone is proof of that While McBrides shot is going we good but I am not yet ready to trust he can constantly breakdown a defense and we will need that in the playoffs.
This is it - love Deuce but certain important things he lacks that we need. He is 100% a Thibs player but he’s lacking in very key areas where we need help.
martin wrote:Clean wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Good job taking care of business without Brunson. I was a little worried being down 4 at halftime but kudos to the team for stepping up. Deuce played really well in his first start. He's honestly soften the blow losing IQ. I'm getting to a point where I kind of don't want to trade for a vet. Let Deuce continue to play and grow. And Hartenstein with another 20 rebound and 4 blocks game. Insane how well he's played filling in for Rob!And congrats to Thibs on 500 wins. That's a huge accomplishment in an era where most coaches don't last. Thibs is not perfect and he does things I don't like or agree with - like playing Deuce and Hartenstein the entire second half last night - but overall he's done a very good job of establishing the culture and winning. To make the playoffs 3 out of 4 years seemed like an impossible task before he got here.
I have been a McBride backer from draft but even I have to admit we need a vet that can create for himself/others. The turnovers this game alone is proof of that While McBrides shot is going we good but I am not yet ready to trust he can constantly breakdown a defense and we will need that in the playoffs.
Trust today and tomorrow versus allowing a player to develop into that trust.
Hard balance
Deuce isn’t going to develop into a creative breakdown point just like RJ isn’t going to develop a smooth mid-range or speed.
Certain things like his 3-point shot development can be improved but naturally instinctive creativity isn’t on the list.
To be clear I LOVE DEUCE
EwingsGlass wrote:Clean wrote:Just tuned in and the first thing I see when i am trying to catchup to what the heck has happened is effort issues with Randle again. I gave him another chance.
Was feeling the same way. He’s having a bad game and making it worse with his attitude.
I missed the game but don’t need to see it to believe it. Randles body language has always been an issue. As a leader that level of energy spreads. This is why I liked RJ. Yes he’s less talented than Randle and not on his all star level. But it helps the team when you watch JB for example. Good or bad days you can not tell. Same with RJ. But Randle wears his emotions on his sleeve and allows his defense to lack when his offense stutters.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Good job taking care of business without Brunson. I was a little worried being down 4 at halftime but kudos to the team for stepping up. Deuce played really well in his first start. He's honestly soften the blow losing IQ. I'm getting to a point where I kind of don't want to trade for a vet. Let Deuce continue to play and grow. And Hartenstein with another 20 rebound and 4 blocks game. Insane how well he's played filling in for Rob!And congrats to Thibs on 500 wins. That's a huge accomplishment in an era where most coaches don't last. Thibs is not perfect and he does things I don't like or agree with - like playing Deuce and Hartenstein the entire second half last night - but overall he's done a very good job of establishing the culture and winning. To make the playoffs 3 out of 4 years seemed like an impossible task before he got here.
I have been a McBride backer from draft but even I have to admit we need a vet that can create for himself/others. The turnovers this game alone is proof of that While McBrides shot is going we good but I am not yet ready to trust he can constantly breakdown a defense and we will need that in the playoffs.
Trust today and tomorrow versus allowing a player to develop into that trust.
Hard balance
Deuce isn’t going to develop into a creative breakdown point just like RJ isn’t going to develop a smooth mid-range or speed.
Certain things like his 3-point shot development can be improved but naturally instinctive creativity isn’t on the list.
To be clear I LOVE DEUCE
2 years ago IQ was not a good PG
