Knicks · Will the ascending rise of iHart, make Mitch expendable? (page 2)
nycericanguy wrote:sounds like what Dallas said about BrunsonDLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
fishmike wrote:nycericanguy wrote:sounds like what Dallas said about BrunsonDLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
not even remotely the same situation. ultimately if Ihart leaves it would be for his 6th team in 7 seasons, you won't find many players that take 6 teams to break out. Chances are he is what he is.
nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.most we can pay Ihart is about 16-17m and I really dont see him getting that. Centers aren't paid a ton unless they are legit two way players who space the floor.
Ihart has been great but he's limited and we're seeing Precious do things that Ihart can't.
I think he's resign for around $15m per year and we'll keep both for now. But long term I think we could move Mitch, especially if Precious keeps this up.
I have to tell you, I agree with what you are saying 100% but I think a guy like iHart may be an unusual exception.
He is not a raw counting stats guy but an out of this world advanced stats guy who is a super high floor glue guy on a team. And a two way force. And a connector, passer center who also knows how to move without the ball.
Those things would push him into the unusual exception category that a smart playoff team or smart up and coming team with some type of cap room or maneuverability would go after iHart in a heartbeat.
Also remember, iHart has the potential to develop a 3point shot.
INVALUABLE in combo with all his other things.
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.most we can pay Ihart is about 16-17m and I really dont see him getting that. Centers aren't paid a ton unless they are legit two way players who space the floor.
Ihart has been great but he's limited and we're seeing Precious do things that Ihart can't.
I think he's resign for around $15m per year and we'll keep both for now. But long term I think we could move Mitch, especially if Precious keeps this up.
I have to tell you, I agree with what you are saying 100% but I think a guy like iHart may be an unusual exception.
He is not a raw counting stats guy but an out of this world advanced stats guy who is a super high floor glue guy on a team. And a two way force. And a connector, passer center who also knows how to move without the ball.
Those things would push him into the unusual exception category that a smart playoff team or smart up and coming team with some type of cap room or maneuverability would go after iHart in a heartbeat.
You may be right, but there are currently only 8 Centers who are above $20M in annual salary in the NBA and that list is filled with All-NBA, DPOY types and guys who are getting paid/over-paid based on when they were drafted in the lottery.
I think that IHart might command a salary in the next tier at $15-$20M. If this is the case, Knicks should make this happen as Mitch's annual salary was structured to decline over time.
There is also a bit of recency bias with Mitch out of people's mind right now......he was beasting this year before injury. I can only imagine the Knicks D with him and OG on the floor at the same time.
Keep both IHart and Mitch!!
DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60m
That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.
curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.
OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.
Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.
nycericanguy wrote:Billups played on 4 teams his first 5 years. I doesnt mean anything. Its not like Brunson because he's a star. But IHart is very good and the bold doesnt make much sense either. Going into this season he was a good back up. Now he's not only a quality starter but his skill set is ascending. We are running more and more offense through him has his passing his top shelf. His picks and screens are bruising and getting better. He's been super durable. We could get more offense from him if needed. Randle was 26 when Thibs came and that has surely unlocked another level for Randle. I think you are underestimating IHart's value and what he's done. 20 games and 32 minutes as a starter he's looked great.fishmike wrote:nycericanguy wrote:sounds like what Dallas said about BrunsonDLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
not even remotely the same situation. ultimately if Ihart leaves it would be for his 6th team in 7 seasons, you won't find many players that take 6 teams to break out. Chances are he is what he is.
Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60m
That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.
curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.
OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.
Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.
Billups played on 4 teams his first 5 years. I doesnt mean anything. Its not like Brunson because he's a star. But IHart is very good and the bold doesnt make much sense either. Going into this season he was a good back up. Now he's not only a quality starter but his skill set is ascending. We are running more and more offense through him has his passing his top shelf. His picks and screens are bruising and getting better. He's been super durable. We could get more offense from him if needed. Randle was 26 when Thibs came and that has surely unlocked another level for Randle. I think you are underestimating IHart's value and what he's done. 20 games and 32 minutes as a starter he's looked great.
You are spot on about the "hustle factor", this team has it in spades. It started with Brunson and then Josh Hart upped the ante last year. It caught on like a virus with the rest of the team. I'm really surprised that Toronto threw in Achiuwa in the OG trade. We knew OG had the "hustle factor", but it appears that Achiuwa has it as well. But iHart has always played with hustle, it's just that he never got the chance to showcase it while playing with starters long enough to get a feel for the rest of the starting 5.
It is all about the "little things" outside the typical stats that never show up. A stat I'd like to see is other teams ranking which teams they don't want play. I think right now, no team really wants to play the Knicks because they know in advance it's going to an exhausting, grueling, dogfight from the opening tipoff. Which is the highest compliment you can give a team. I don't think there's a team in the NBA right that is openly saying they want to play the Knicks...if they're being honest.
fishmike wrote:Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60m
That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.
curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.
OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.
Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.
Don't see Detroit spending big on a center.
fishmike wrote:Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60m
That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.
curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.
OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.
Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.
Correct. Every single team out there that has been dying to trade for OG, all of those teams would have already committed to $30-35+M for OG (and maybe he still opts into that first year, but the rest will be north of 30 easy).
That's a no brainer.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
blkexec wrote:Joe……It’s hard to give an adult answer to an immature question, but I’ll give it a try.Both
Whoever has it going they start. Now it’s iHart.
That was on page 2.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Correct. Every single team out there that has been dying to trade for OG, all of those teams would have already committed to $30-35+M for OG (and maybe he still opts into that first year, but the rest will be north of 30 easy).Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.nycericanguy wrote:OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.DLeethal wrote:curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.nycericanguy wrote:That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.DLeethal wrote:we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60mnycericanguy wrote:iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.DLeethal wrote:if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.nycericanguy wrote:I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.BingBong wrote:ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
That's a no brainer.
I don't buy it. OG is not some superstar. It's not like Toronto was winning games with him. There's just some crazy synergy going on with the Knicks right now and he's part of it. As blexec mentioned, it could also be partly addition by subtraction. But I wouldn't pay him $35-40. I would let him walk and let FO find another player just like they got JB, DDV, Hart, and iHart. Cannot tie that amount of money up in OG
nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.most we can pay Ihart is about 16-17m and I really dont see him getting that. Centers aren't paid a ton unless they are legit two way players who space the floor.
Ihart has been great but he's limited and we're seeing Precious do things that Ihart can't.I think he's resign for around $15m per year and we'll keep both for now. But long term I think we could move Mitch, especially if Precious keeps this up.
That statement was probably true 4 years ago before the Jokic , Embiid renaissance.
Trams now starting to realize, once again, the importance of a good big.
Towns will be making $60M soon.
Wolves paid a basic one dimensional C $41.
Freaking Clint Capela will be making $22m next year.
My thing is, look at what Knicks pay similar impact type players. JHart just got $20 per.
See that as the top the Knicks will pay
As for Mitch, I have a longer memory then some. Mitch is the definition of rim protection.
Don't see Thibs wanting to give that up. Even with how well IHart has performed.
Think the thing, aside from IHart's play, that makes Mitch expendable is his free throw shooting.
Especially at the end of important games.
Definitely agree with most saying we want our cake and eat it in this scenario .
Interested to see how IHart keeps improving. He is only 25 and still can.
He has shown a high IQ.
Falls and hits the floor harder every night than the Randle fall and keeps on ticking.
His offensive game is probably a short pop out jumper away from being next level.
Hope he stays but if not, have confidence Rose and the Knicks FO can find another value.
As they seem to have done with Precious. Who has really surprised me.
fishmike wrote:Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:BingBong wrote:DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.
You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.
if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60m
That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.
curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.
OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.
Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.
Don't see Detroit playing big for IHart. They have Duren and Stewart under contract and Wiseman as an RFA. Maybe Orlando, Washington or Houston would be in play for IHart....but I'm still thinking $20M max per year.
My point stands, no C who has averaged less than 10 & 10 has gotten $20m per year.
BingBong wrote:Billups played on 4 teams his first 5 years. I doesnt mean anything. Its not like Brunson because he's a star. But IHart is very good and the bold doesnt make much sense either. Going into this season he was a good back up. Now he's not only a quality starter but his skill set is ascending. We are running more and more offense through him has his passing his top shelf. His picks and screens are bruising and getting better. He's been super durable. We could get more offense from him if needed. Randle was 26 when Thibs came and that has surely unlocked another level for Randle. I think you are underestimating IHart's value and what he's done. 20 games and 32 minutes as a starter he's looked great.You are spot on about the "hustle factor", this team has it in spades. It started with Brunson and then Josh Hart upped the ante last year. It caught on like a virus with the rest of the team. I'm really surprised that Toronto threw in Achiuwa in the OG trade. We knew OG had the "hustle factor", but it appears that Achiuwa has it as well. But iHart has always played with hustle, it's just that he never got the chance to showcase it while playing with starters long enough to get a feel for the rest of the starting 5.
It is all about the "little things" outside the typical stats that never show up. A stat I'd like to see is other teams ranking which teams they don't want play. I think right now, no team really wants to play the Knicks because they know in advance it's going to an exhausting, grueling, dogfight from the opening tipoff. Which is the highest compliment you can give a team. I don't think there's a team in the NBA right that is openly saying they want to play the Knicks...if they're being honest.
KNICKS CULTURE!!
Panos wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Correct. Every single team out there that has been dying to trade for OG, all of those teams would have already committed to $30-35+M for OG (and maybe he still opts into that first year, but the rest will be north of 30 easy).Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.nycericanguy wrote:OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.DLeethal wrote:curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.nycericanguy wrote:That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.DLeethal wrote:we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60mnycericanguy wrote:iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.DLeethal wrote:if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.nycericanguy wrote:I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.BingBong wrote:ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
That's a no brainer.
I don't buy it. OG is not some superstar. It's not like Toronto was winning games with him. There's just some crazy synergy going on with the Knicks right now and he's part of it. As blexec mentioned, it could also be partly addition by subtraction. But I wouldn't pay him $35-40. I would let him walk and let FO find another player just like they got JB, DDV, Hart, and iHart. Cannot tie that amount of money up in OG
If you have confidence in the FO to do what they do, perhaps apply that to his market value which Leon an Co. have a good history of not over paying.
If OG talents apparently has made other “better’ that too needs to be factored. Trust also that they too will address other needs. Knicks at the very worst cannot let OG walk uncompensated.
We have a FO and coach whose roster is developing in unison toward a vision.
Panos wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Correct. Every single team out there that has been dying to trade for OG, all of those teams would have already committed to $30-35+M for OG (and maybe he still opts into that first year, but the rest will be north of 30 easy).Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.nycericanguy wrote:OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.DLeethal wrote:curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.nycericanguy wrote:That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.DLeethal wrote:we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60mnycericanguy wrote:iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.DLeethal wrote:if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.nycericanguy wrote:I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.BingBong wrote:ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
That's a no brainer.
I don't buy it. OG is not some superstar. It's not like Toronto was winning games with him. There's just some crazy synergy going on with the Knicks right now and he's part of it. As blexec mentioned, it could also be partly addition by subtraction. But I wouldn't pay him $35-40. I would let him walk and let FO find another player just like they got JB, DDV, Hart, and iHart. Cannot tie that amount of money up in OG
He is going to request that amount and Knicks will give it to him. Its his 3rd NBA contract, 2nd extension, and the salary cap has increased. Its what he is eligible for. His market is based on what other teams in the NBA would be willing to offer him. Your speaking as if the Knicks hold the power here. Don't want to pay him then u have to sign & trade him getting less back than you gave up when you traded RJ & IQ.
We beat the Hornets and the Jazz without OG. We beat the Wolves & 76ers with him. There are levels to this.
Panos wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Correct. Every single team out there that has been dying to trade for OG, all of those teams would have already committed to $30-35+M for OG (and maybe he still opts into that first year, but the rest will be north of 30 easy).Panos wrote:OG is not signing for $25. JB and JR are both underpaid. The cap continues to go up. I would expect Detroit to make IHart a big offer like 4 years $100/mm. They are closer than they appear. I would also expect us to do what we can to try and keep him. He's been great. Time will tell and at this point I really trust Leon and Brock. I would expect OG to cost $35-40mm a yearDLeethal wrote:Sorry, I'd way rather pay iHart $20M than OG north of $30M. Again, I think $25M for OG is the right number. Same as the other Big 2: JB and JR.nycericanguy wrote:OG will get the bag. I do think he will be as fair as possible though. But he gonna get 30 at least I think.DLeethal wrote:curious what OG signs for, if he takes $30m then it makes me think these guys all want to be here and will take team friendly deals. Can't imagine we traded for OG without having a number in place, and I'd be surprised if that number was 40.nycericanguy wrote:That would be ideal, it really all depends on who has cap space this year. All it takes is one team who needs a young C. We've been able to secure the guys we want, who want to be here, at reasonable deals across the board. I am hopeful this will fall in line with that.DLeethal wrote:we'll see, I think we resign him for 4/60mnycericanguy wrote:iHart is only 25. Doesn't really matter if he's never been that kind of player before, he's proving he is now as he's entering his prime years. Brunson didn't play more than 25 mpg either until he was 25.DLeethal wrote:if he's willing to leave for 20m so be it, we cant be the ones to pay it. Precious is good insurance for that.nycericanguy wrote:I could see a team giving him 20-25M. iHart is proving damn well he's a 30+ mpg player. He's playing C on the leagues best defense, winning games all while playing 30+. I think he will draw heavy interest. I hope we can keep him. I think he might see 20M offers and we will need to max him but I haven't looked at the teams with cap space yet.BingBong wrote:ehh I dont see teams blowing a ton of cap on Ihart. he wouldn't start in BOS or PHI either. how many contenders WOULD he start on? and how many losing teams would pay him big money?DLeethal wrote:I would pay Mitch and iHart a combined 30M I think and keep that platoon intact. I think if iHart requires 20-25M salary you have to move Mitch though. You have to have reasonable payroll balance. iHart is a damn monster though, he's durable and worth a slight overpay because of how well he's played. I would not under any circumstance let another team steal him from us.You know that if Will Hardy notices iHart's talent and value to the Knicks, every other coach in the NBA notices it as well. Because of it, I don't think iHart wants anything less than being a starter on a team. If he goes on the free market, he's going to get paid big money as he will have a lot of options and a bidding war will take place. I'm just a fan, so my opinion is as good (or bad) as the next fan, but I wouldn't let iHart go. He'd probably end up in Boston or Philadelphia...and of course the Lakers would be weighing in, as they are always doing.
I don't see it, I think he's a $15m player more or less who can play 24-26mpg. He's a in a perfect platoon with Mitch, neither are 30+mpg players IMO.
but he's never been more than 24-25mpg player, same as Mitch. I can't ever remember a C getting $20m while averaging the numbers he does. He won't even average 10 and 10, and he doesn't space the floor.
He has a great role here, but he's a limited player.
He's really not that limited, he can do a lot of things from the C position, the number of guys who can replicate his skillset you can probably count on one hand. The only thing he's limited with is shooting deep ball. But he can dribble, pass, face up and go downhill, great touch around the basket, strong power finisher, and a really good defender. He's durable and hits his FTs. Rare breed at C IMO.
That's a no brainer.
I don't buy it. OG is not some superstar. It's not like Toronto was winning games with him. There's just some crazy synergy going on with the Knicks right now and he's part of it. As blexec mentioned, it could also be partly addition by subtraction. But I wouldn't pay him $35-40. I would let him walk and let FO find another player just like they got JB, DDV, Hart, and iHart. Cannot tie that amount of money up in OG
You don't consider what OG does on the defensively end of things star level? Cause he is about to get All Defensive team selection while being incredibly solid on the offensive end of things.
If you had a guy that was about to get All Offensive team selection and was incredibly solid on the defensive end of things, what would you call that person?
Durant? A litter bit younger Steph Curry? Klay before he got old? Tatum? Who is your comparison?
Also, let's us check back in during the summer and see who enjoys crow more and who will be eating.
As well, letting OG walk under those circumstances IMHO would be the dumbest move in the history of GM's.