I know there’s another thread, but he’s good enough to discuss again. The hope is we bring him back. And when either Hartenstein or Robinson (or both) are banged up, he’s invaluable. But when the entire roster is healthy. You have either Mitch or Ihart starting alongside Randle, Anunoby, DiVincenzo, and Brunson starting. The bench is the other center, Bogdanovic and Hart at the very minimum. Then likely Burks playing a backup guard too, although Deuce may replace Burks in certain matchups. So that’s the 9 right there. Thibs wont play 10. Most teams don’t go 10 unless the bench is weak and the backups aren’t playing a ton of minutes. But bogs and hart are going to play high level rotation minutes for as long as they are on the team. And fluctuation with their minutes will be marginal.
So with all of that being said, what is Achiuwas role ? Is there a scenario where maybe DiVincenzo becomes the de-factor backup PG alongside a bigger backup unit of Ihart or Mitch at center, Achiuwa, Bogs, Hart, and DDV? That would be a strong unit that would crush teams on the boards, and probably have enough scoring, although not a ton of spacing. In this scenario, Achiuwa would essentially see the non-Randle minutes at PF. This is sort of the rotation crunch the Knicks faced with all of the guards at the beginning of the year. And of course it’s a moot point this regular season because Knicks are so banged up. I’m talking more so next year because the Knicks will have to make a roster decision. Achiuwa is an amazing fail-safe, but is he happy with that type of limited role? Are the Knicks content going into the luxury tax/ apron for that luxury? This is becoming my biggest question going forward. And this is all assuming both Ihart and Mitch are back. That is always a possibility that the Knicks make a tough decision elsewhere. We will see what happens.
Burks and McBride will most likely be odd men out. Bojan or Precious will be based on what's needed in terms of mins distribution. DDV will probably line up at PG with Hart doing the actually ball handling responsibilities setting up the offense. Bojan will be featured scorer for that setting. Hart will run the plays designed for Bojan. The reason gave Grimes up for him.
Long term Precious should be viewed as a core piece.
newyorknewyork wrote:Burks and McBride will most likely be odd men out. Bojan or Precious will be based on what's needed in terms of mins distribution. DDV will probably line up at PG with Hart doing the actually ball handling responsibilities setting up the offense. Bojan will be featured scorer for that setting. Hart will run the plays designed for Bojan. The reason gave Grimes up for him. Long term Precious should be viewed as a core piece.
Completely agree. I’m intrigued with the idea of that bench lineup with DDV and hart running the offense. It’s the only logical solution to getting Achiuwa in the rotation permanently.
Knixkik wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Burks and McBride will most likely be odd men out. Bojan or Precious will be based on what's needed in terms of mins distribution. DDV will probably line up at PG with Hart doing the actually ball handling responsibilities setting up the offense. Bojan will be featured scorer for that setting. Hart will run the plays designed for Bojan. The reason gave Grimes up for him. Long term Precious should be viewed as a core piece.
Completely agree. I’m intrigued with the idea of that bench lineup with DDV and hart running the offense. It’s the only logical solution to getting Achiuwa in the rotation permanently.
He's earned it. His performance has just been better than those he would be fighting for mins vs. And will be a vital piece for the long term. He provides coverage many needed things. While giving glimpses of expanded potential.
Sadly he will get the Obi role of 12-15 mpg backing up Randle. But I doubt if Randle comes back he will go back immediately to playing his usual 36 mpg so I think we'll continue to see plenty of Achiuwa this season. Which is a good thing! Kid is a stud and really underrated! Mini Taj!
SergioNYK wrote:Sadly he will get the Obi role of 12-15 mpg backing up Randle. But I doubt if Randle comes back he will go back immediately to playing his usual 36 mpg so I think we'll continue to see plenty of Achiuwa this season. Which is a good thing! Kid is a stud and really underrated! Mini Taj!
The mini Taj thing is perfect accurate. Hopefully Taj joins the coaching staff next year. And I think you’re right, if he’s resigned he becomes the Obi essentially, except we know thibs wont hesitate to slide him over to the center. The point I wanted to make in the original thread is with both OG and Bogs both being 3/4 combos, there was no longer a need for a backup PF because they are both essentially that, but Achiuwa is good enough where they have an abundance of options and will have to fit him into that role regardless. Knicks went from having no options at backup PF to having 3 great options in the matter of a month.
SergioNYK wrote:Sadly he will get the Obi role of 12-15 mpg backing up Randle. But I doubt if Randle comes back he will go back immediately to playing his usual 36 mpg so I think we'll continue to see plenty of Achiuwa this season. Which is a good thing! Kid is a stud and really underrated! Mini Taj!
why is that sad? That's great. Not only does Randle finally have a legit (non-Josh Hart) backup but Precious can slide into the start at 4 or play the 5 if ANY of our frontcourt guys go down and be a equal parts beast/grinder
We got a legit 11 guys. ITs a great problem to have. We are not building. We are fighting for a top seed and trying to be the best team in the league
The unfortunate reality is that 1 of he or Bogie don't fit into a healthy rotation. And same goes for 1 of Deuce and Burks. Thibs has offense/defense options, he will have to play the matchups and hot hands. He did that last night very well.
fishmike wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Sadly he will get the Obi role of 12-15 mpg backing up Randle. But I doubt if Randle comes back he will go back immediately to playing his usual 36 mpg so I think we'll continue to see plenty of Achiuwa this season. Which is a good thing! Kid is a stud and really underrated! Mini Taj!
why is that sad? That's great. Not only does Randle finally have a legit (non-Josh Hart) backup but Precious can slide into the start at 4 or play the 5 if ANY of our frontcourt guys go down and be a equal parts beast/grinderWe got a legit 11 guys. ITs a great problem to have. We are not building. We are fighting for a top seed and trying to be the best team in the league
It's a good problem to have for sure, we are deep AF. Still "tough" decisions to be made by the coach, but most coaches would sign up for that any day of the week. I'm sure FO is still contingency planning for another "thinning out" trade in the offseason anyway.
In terms of those 12-15 mpg behind Randle. OG took a lot of those minutes at backup 4, which opened a lot of mins for Hart at the 3. At full strength I think the DET guys have the toughest path to mins tbh. And I'm OK with that.
DLeethal wrote:The unfortunate reality is that 1 of he or Bogie don't fit into a healthy rotation. And same goes for 1 of Deuce and Burks. Thibs has offense/defense options, he will have to play the matchups and hot hands. He did that last night very well.
I think at this rate the Knicks pass again on resigning Burks this summer. The reality is Leon won’t bring everyone back. If the bench is Mitch (or Ihart), Achiuwa, bogdanovic, hart and Deuce, you have 10 really good players and just need to decide if you go big (Achiuwa) with the 9-man rotation, or small (deuce). And more often than not someone is out so it becomes irrelevant. We sometimes see it’s important to start the season without a rotation crunch. The team does better with defined roles. And then as injuries hit you just make necessary in-season trades.
Knixkik wrote:DLeethal wrote:The unfortunate reality is that 1 of he or Bogie don't fit into a healthy rotation. And same goes for 1 of Deuce and Burks. Thibs has offense/defense options, he will have to play the matchups and hot hands. He did that last night very well.
I think at this rate the Knicks pass again on resigning Burks this summer. The reality is Leon won’t bring everyone back. If the bench is Mitch (or Ihart), Achiuwa, bogdanovic, hart and Deuce, you have 10 really good players and just need to decide if you go big (Achiuwa) with the 9-man rotation, or small (deuce). And more often than not someone is out so it becomes irrelevant. We always see sometimes it’s important to start the season without a rotation crunch. The team does better with defined roles. And then as injuries hit you just make necessary in-season trades.
Agreed. I think it does not make any sense to resign Burks unless he's content at his age taking pennies and being in a Taj veteran role. We have two good first round picks to replenish some of those deeper roles.
DLeethal wrote:The unfortunate reality is that 1 of he or Bogie don't fit into a healthy rotation. And same goes for 1 of Deuce and Burks. Thibs has offense/defense options, he will have to play the matchups and hot hands. He did that last night very well.
If they push Bojan more toward G mins than F mins than that would open up mins for Precious to get toward around 20per. Would mean Hart playing more PG though and not sure if Thibs loves that or not.
Precious is everything Thibs hoped Obi would become. Only he is a year and a half younger.
DLeethal wrote:Knixkik wrote:DLeethal wrote:The unfortunate reality is that 1 of he or Bogie don't fit into a healthy rotation. And same goes for 1 of Deuce and Burks. Thibs has offense/defense options, he will have to play the matchups and hot hands. He did that last night very well.
I think at this rate the Knicks pass again on resigning Burks this summer. The reality is Leon won’t bring everyone back. If the bench is Mitch (or Ihart), Achiuwa, bogdanovic, hart and Deuce, you have 10 really good players and just need to decide if you go big (Achiuwa) with the 9-man rotation, or small (deuce). And more often than not someone is out so it becomes irrelevant. We always see sometimes it’s important to start the season without a rotation crunch. The team does better with defined roles. And then as injuries hit you just make necessary in-season trades.
Agreed. I think it does not make any sense to resign Burks unless he's content at his age taking pennies and being in a Taj veteran role. We have two good first round picks to replenish some of those deeper roles.
I have to tell you guys, I don't know why Burks and the Knicks wouldn't come to an agreement on a decent contract for both sides.
If you are Burks, this is (pretty much) going to be your last contract. You either come to a good understanding with the team that knows you well and really enjoys working with you, or you take your chances in free agency as a 33yo.
That's what Burks is up against. Knicks will prob give him a nice, adult 2-year offer with a team option for 3? They will give him a deadline of before the free agency period to commit to it.
Burks will have to decide about his chances of betting on himself moving forward. I don't know why the Knicks wouldn't move forward this way.
martin wrote:Precious is everything Thibs hoped Obi would become. Only he is a year and a half younger.
he's perfect. Im great playing him 18 minutes if we need to keep Jules to 30 or just give him the Obi slot and any time a center goes down he's the #3 guy in that rotation.
I really feel like any night he's going to give you quality rotation minutes at either the 4/5. I like him for 15-18 minutes a night and ready for a bigger role if Jules or a center goes down
Pretty wild to think of how TOR was unable to get a front court of OG-Siakam-Precious to win at a high level. The defense and even offensive blend of talents there is really good.
DLeethal wrote:Pretty wild to think of how TOR was unable to get a front court of OG-Siakam-Precious to win at a high level. The defense and even offensive blend of talents there is really good.
I'd guess they were missing an engine. FVV may have been a decent start but realistically he was too flawed. Not a penetration like Brunson. They needed that guy to make everyone else better.
Thus the IQ trade.
martin wrote:Precious is everything Thibs hoped Obi would become. Only he is a year and a half younger.
A reason I bumped the backup PF thread (sorry Martin!). We were concerned with Randle’s minutes returning from injury. There were some that thought trading Obi was dumb in that regard (all opinions are valid!). There was concern and speculation as to who could be the guy. With no malice I’d say Precious has delivered far more than we could have hoped for from Obi. He plays D, he ain’t soft, and it looks like there could be upside. Wager who gets the bigger next contract.
More Precious threads!
DLeethal wrote:Pretty wild to think of how TOR was unable to get a front court of OG-Siakam-Precious to win at a high level. The defense and even offensive blend of talents there is really good.
Maybe we have a good coach?
KnickDanger wrote:DLeethal wrote:Pretty wild to think of how TOR was unable to get a front court of OG-Siakam-Precious to win at a high level. The defense and even offensive blend of talents there is really good.
Maybe we have a good coach?
I liked Thibs when he got here. At this point I would lay in traffic for the guy. He's done such a good job. Next level up.. here we go
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:Knixkik wrote:DLeethal wrote:The unfortunate reality is that 1 of he or Bogie don't fit into a healthy rotation. And same goes for 1 of Deuce and Burks. Thibs has offense/defense options, he will have to play the matchups and hot hands. He did that last night very well.
I think at this rate the Knicks pass again on resigning Burks this summer. The reality is Leon won’t bring everyone back. If the bench is Mitch (or Ihart), Achiuwa, bogdanovic, hart and Deuce, you have 10 really good players and just need to decide if you go big (Achiuwa) with the 9-man rotation, or small (deuce). And more often than not someone is out so it becomes irrelevant. We always see sometimes it’s important to start the season without a rotation crunch. The team does better with defined roles. And then as injuries hit you just make necessary in-season trades.
Agreed. I think it does not make any sense to resign Burks unless he's content at his age taking pennies and being in a Taj veteran role. We have two good first round picks to replenish some of those deeper roles.
I have to tell you guys, I don't know why Burks and the Knicks wouldn't come to an agreement on a decent contract for both sides.
If you are Burks, this is (pretty much) going to be your last contract. You either come to a good understanding with the team that knows you well and really enjoys working with you, or you take your chances in free agency as a 33yo.
That's what Burks is up against. Knicks will prob give him a nice, adult 2-year offer with a team option for 3? They will give him a deadline of before the free agency period to commit to it.
Burks will have to decide about his chances of betting on himself moving forward. I don't know why the Knicks wouldn't move forward this way.
Maybe you’re right. My biggest thing is the financial aspect of it assuming the Knicks don’t make any big moves in the offseason. Obviously if they do it changes things. Burks is a good piece to have given his experience, versatility and shooting. I definitely wouldn’t rule it out. I just wonder if there’s another playoff team with a bigger role for him that is willing to use an exception on him.
