Knicks · [GT Knicks vs Warriors] 2/29/24 TNT 7:30PM (page 9)
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.Thibs IS a top 3 coach. What has Kerr or Pop done without MVPs? Spurs minus Wemby are a dumpster fire. Mazulla was playing Jaylen Brown with a minutes to go vs. the Knicks the other night. They were UP TWENTY! That's right out of the Thib's "I cant coach" school class 101DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
Anyway I too can back up my points with a variety of my opinions. Thib's beat Spoelstra's team after being down 20 in a tourney elimination game. Was Spo outcoached? How can this be explained?
Look at the team and what's been going on. How can you look at this big picture and come here spouting Thib's slander? (same goes for Randle hate)
No donut. booo
NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
“Dumping on”not dumping he said. Seems that’s what’s going on here.
I don’t like losing any more than anyone else here. But if one is looking for a reason for this stretch other than a near catastrophic rash of injuries then you are either grasping at straws or perhaps have another agenda.
Its not that easy. Ask Bud. Or Adrian Griffin.
Mazzula might get there one day. He has a great roster!! He was interim and it was going well so they kept him.
He was a bit over matched in the playoffs. One series. one season.
Spo earned his cred not with the "Heatles", but in subsequent years taking good teams far into the playoffs.
Admittingly Thibs is kind of in MDA space. Great regular seasons but not playoff success consistent with hat regular season success.
I think his knick teams over achieved in the regular season and why some fans are disappointed.
How can one tell? You can't. Injuries and opponents matters.
EAST W L PCT GB STRK L10 HOME AWAY PPG OPPG DIFF
-------- -- -- ----- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----
1 Boston 46 12 0.793 - W9 9-1 27-3 19-9 120.7 110.2 10.5
2 Cleveland 38 20 0.655 8 L1 6-4 20-10 18-10 114.7 109.7 5.0
3 Milwaukee 39 21 0.65 8 W4 6-4 24-7 15-14 121.6 117.4 4.24 New York 35 25 0.583 12 L2 3-7 20-11 15-14 113.6 109.9 3.7
5 Philadelphia 33 25 0.569 13 L2 3-7 18-13 15-12 117.0 113.7 3.3
6 Orlando 34 26 0.567 13 W2 7-3 20-8 14-18 111.5 110.2 1.3
7 Indiana 34 26 0.567 13 W1 7-3 20-12 14-14 123.9 122.0 1.9
8 Miami 33 26 0.559 13.5 L1 7-3 15-13 18-13 110.4 109.7 0.7
9 Chicago 28 31 0.475 18.5 W1 5-5 16-14 12-17 111.9 113.1 -1.2
10 Atlanta 26 33 0.441 20.5 L1 4-6 15-16 11-17 120.7 122.9 -2.2
11 Brooklyn 23 36 0.39 23.5 W1 3-7 14-17 9-19 112.1 114.5 -2.4
12 Toronto 22 37 0.373 24.5 L1 5-5 12-17 10-20 114.6 117.8 -3.2
13 Charlotte 15 44 0.254 31.5 L2 5-5 8-22 7-22 107.5 118.1 -10.6
14 Detroit 9 49 0.155 37 W1 3-7 4-24 5-25 112.7 121.3 -8.6
15 Washington 9 50 0.153 37.5 L13 0-10 3-25 6-25 114.6 124.4 -9.8WEST W L PCT GB STRK L10 HOME AWAY PPG OPPG DIFF
-------- -- -- ----- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----
1 Minnesota 42 17 0.712 - W3 8-2 22-6 20-11 113.6 106.3 7.3
2 Oklahoma City 41 18 0.695 1 L1 7-3 24-6 17-12 121.2 113.3 7.9
3 Denver 41 19 0.683 1.5 W5 7-3 24-5 17-14 114.4 110.2 4.2
4 Los Angeles 37 20 0.649 4 L2 5-5 20-8 17-12 117.5 112.9 4.6
5 Phoenix 35 24 0.593 7 W2 7-3 20-11 15-13 117.4 114.3 3.1
6 New Orleans 35 25 0.583 7.5 L1 6-4 17-12 18-13 116.0 111.9 4.1
7 Dallas 34 25 0.576 8 W1 8-2 18-13 16-12 118.9 117.6 1.3
8 Sacramento 33 25 0.569 8.5 L2 4-6 16-10 17-15 118.1 117.8 0.3
9 Los Angeles 33 28 0.541 10 W2 7-3 21-9 12-19 117.2 117.6 -0.4
10 Golden State 31 27 0.534 10.5 W2 8-2 16-15 15-12 119.1 117.0 2.1
11 Utah 27 33 0.45 15.5 L2 3-7 18-11 9-22 117.5 120.4 -2.9
12 Houston 25 34 0.424 17 L3 2-8 20-10 5-24 112.7 113.1 -0.4
13 Memphis 20 39 0.339 22 L3 2-8 7-22 13-17 106.4 112.7 -6.3
14 Portland 15 42 0.263 26 L9 1-9 9-20 6-22 107.2 116.3 -9.1
15 San Antonio 12 48 0.2 30.5 W1 2-8 6-21 6-27 112.3 120.6 -8.3
NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
By "dumping on" I mean levying heavy criticism on him, not actually firing him right now.
Also "Thibs has been a top 5 coach" =/ "I would choose Thibs top 5 if I was hiring a new coach today". Just like seasonal MVP =/ I would pick this guy #1 overall in a redraft today.
Thibs performance over the course of his tenure, given the talent on the team and the overall results, is top 5 worthy, he helped transform this team from a decades-long loser to a team that is now looked at as a barometer of competence, and I bet you there are a lot of teams who have been in the gutter a long time that will study the way Thibs coached this team up from the ground, built an identity, and installed a culture of winning.
To answer your question, if I did have to choose a coach today from your list, Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, are the only guys I'd take over Thibs. Thibs wiped the floor with Bickerstaff last year. There might be others I'd take over Thibs but I'm just going off your list.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
By "dumping on" I mean levying heavy criticism on him, not actually firing him right now.
Also "Thibs has been a top 5 coach" =/ "I would choose Thibs top 5 if I was hiring a new coach today". Just like seasonal MVP =/ I would pick this guy #1 overall in a redraft today.
Thibs performance over the course of his tenure, given the talent on the team and the overall results, is top 5 worthy, he helped transform this team from a decades-long loser to a team that is now looked at as a barometer of competence, and I bet you there are a lot of teams who have been in the gutter a long time that will study the way Thibs coached this team up from the ground, built an identity, and installed a culture of winning.
To answer your question, if I did have to choose a coach today from your list, Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, are the only guys I'd take over Thibs. Thibs wiped the floor with Bickerstaff last year. There might be others I'd take over Thibs but I'm just going off your list.
I dont believe you can call Thibs a top 5 coach with his playoff record. Not nearly good enough. Thibs has been good at coaching up players, but not teams from start to finish.
He's had some great players on his teams, future HOFers, but no trip to the Finals in all his time as coach. With teams in which he had a say or total control over the roster. Thibs hasnt been to the conference finals since his first season as head coach, almost 15 years ago.
Im not saying that we cant win a chip with Thibs. I am saying that there is a difference between being a good coach, and a great coach. And Thibs has yet to be a great coach. Its about more than regular season awards and high seeds. Its the whole enchilada.
GustavBahler wrote:DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
By "dumping on" I mean levying heavy criticism on him, not actually firing him right now.
Also "Thibs has been a top 5 coach" =/ "I would choose Thibs top 5 if I was hiring a new coach today". Just like seasonal MVP =/ I would pick this guy #1 overall in a redraft today.
Thibs performance over the course of his tenure, given the talent on the team and the overall results, is top 5 worthy, he helped transform this team from a decades-long loser to a team that is now looked at as a barometer of competence, and I bet you there are a lot of teams who have been in the gutter a long time that will study the way Thibs coached this team up from the ground, built an identity, and installed a culture of winning.
To answer your question, if I did have to choose a coach today from your list, Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, are the only guys I'd take over Thibs. Thibs wiped the floor with Bickerstaff last year. There might be others I'd take over Thibs but I'm just going off your list.
I dont believe you can call Thibs a top 5 coach with his playoff record. Not nearly good enough. Thibs has been good at coaching up players, but not teams from start to finish.
He's had some great players on his teams, future HOFers, but no trip to the Finals in all his time as coach. With teams in which he had a say or total control over the roster. Thibs hasnt been to the conference finals since his first season as head coach, almost 15 years ago.
Im not saying that we cant win a chip with Thibs. I am saying that there is a difference between being a good coach, and a great coach. And Thibs has yet to be a great coach. Its about more than regular season awards and high seeds. Its the whole enchilada.
I said he's been a top 5 coach since he's been here, I stand by that. Coaching is always relative to the talent on the roster, so deep playoff runs isn't always realistic. Not everyone is coaching a deep playoff run caliber roster. Thibs hasn't since he's been here until arguably the OG trade, he's just known to get his groups to over achieve, like having the worst roster in the league during the "We here" season finish 10 games over .500.
fishmike wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.Thibs IS a top 3 coach. What has Kerr or Pop done without MVPs? Spurs minus Wemby are a dumpster fire. Mazulla was playing Jaylen Brown with a minutes to go vs. the Knicks the other night. They were UP TWENTY! That's right out of the Thib's "I cant coach" school class 101DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
Anyway I too can back up my points with a variety of my opinions. Thib's beat Spoelstra's team after being down 20 in a tourney elimination game. Was Spo outcoached? How can this be explained?
Look at the team and what's been going on. How can you look at this big picture and come here spouting Thib's slander? (same goes for Randle hate)
No donut. booo
Nalod wrote:Great coaches get coach great players.
Its not that easy. Ask Bud. Or Adrian Griffin.
Mazzula might get there one day. He has a great roster!! He was interim and it was going well so they kept him.
He was a bit over matched in the playoffs. One series. one season.
Spo earned his cred not with the "Heatles", but in subsequent years taking good teams far into the playoffs.
Admittingly Thibs is kind of in MDA space. Great regular seasons but not playoff success consistent with hat regular season success.
I think his knick teams over achieved in the regular season and why some fans are disappointed.
How can one tell? You can't. Injuries and opponents matters.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
By "dumping on" I mean levying heavy criticism on him, not actually firing him right now.
Also "Thibs has been a top 5 coach" =/ "I would choose Thibs top 5 if I was hiring a new coach today". Just like seasonal MVP =/ I would pick this guy #1 overall in a redraft today.
Thibs performance over the course of his tenure, given the talent on the team and the overall results, is top 5 worthy, he helped transform this team from a decades-long loser to a team that is now looked at as a barometer of competence, and I bet you there are a lot of teams who have been in the gutter a long time that will study the way Thibs coached this team up from the ground, built an identity, and installed a culture of winning.
To answer your question, if I did have to choose a coach today from your list, Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, are the only guys I'd take over Thibs. Thibs wiped the floor with Bickerstaff last year. There might be others I'd take over Thibs but I'm just going off your list.
GustavBahler wrote:DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Who said to dump him now? lol If you read my whole post, it says he is getting extended. He just needs to coach better. So, you would rather have Thibs over Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, Bickerstaff and even Mazulla? Being top 5-10 coach is fine, but this team is trying to be top 3 and win the chip. Thibs isn't a top 3 coach. COY award doesn't always mean you are the best coach, you probably did the best with what was projected for his team. Thibs looks great to some due to the lack of quality coaching for so many years with the Knicks. Unlike JB who looks great because he is great, not because of lacking quality NYK PG play for similar years.DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.Rookie wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a jokeAgree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.
Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.
The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.
It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.
Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.
Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.
You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.
It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.
Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.
By "dumping on" I mean levying heavy criticism on him, not actually firing him right now.
Also "Thibs has been a top 5 coach" =/ "I would choose Thibs top 5 if I was hiring a new coach today". Just like seasonal MVP =/ I would pick this guy #1 overall in a redraft today.
Thibs performance over the course of his tenure, given the talent on the team and the overall results, is top 5 worthy, he helped transform this team from a decades-long loser to a team that is now looked at as a barometer of competence, and I bet you there are a lot of teams who have been in the gutter a long time that will study the way Thibs coached this team up from the ground, built an identity, and installed a culture of winning.
To answer your question, if I did have to choose a coach today from your list, Spoestra, Kerr, Pop, Malone, are the only guys I'd take over Thibs. Thibs wiped the floor with Bickerstaff last year. There might be others I'd take over Thibs but I'm just going off your list.
I dont believe you can call Thibs a top 5 coach with his playoff record. Not nearly good enough. Thibs has been good at coaching up players, but not teams from start to finish.
He's had some great players on his teams, future HOFers, but no trip to the Finals in all his time as coach. With teams in which he had a say or total control over the roster. Thibs hasnt been to the conference finals since his first season as head coach, almost 15 years ago.
Im not saying that we cant win a chip with Thibs. I am saying that there is a difference between being a good coach, and a great coach. And Thibs has yet to be a great coach. Its about more than regular season awards and high seeds. Its the whole enchilada.
LGK
P.S. IF this was the Knicks ESPN headline would say Celts embarrassingly destroy the Knicks. For Warriors it was only a rout.