Nalod wrote:Assuming Carlisle and Thibs Never ever change is flat out disrespectful to the profession.
Carlisle in 22 years never changed? His flying circus in Indy is really very different than years past.
The game has changed but these guys are succeeding is a testament to some levels of change.
Not that Thibs is now MDA, but he has evolved.
Of course they change. They are still the same person though. Do you separate Carlisle as a playoff loser pre 2011 and a champion after that? Or just call him Rick Carlisle?
DLeethal wrote:Nalod wrote:Assuming Carlisle and Thibs Never ever change is flat out disrespectful to the profession.
Carlisle in 22 years never changed? His flying circus in Indy is really very different than years past.
The game has changed but these guys are succeeding is a testament to some levels of change.
Not that Thibs is now MDA, but he has evolved.
Of course they change. They are still the same person though. Do you separate Carlisle as a playoff loser pre 2011 and a champion after that? Or just call him Rick Carlisle?
He is Rick Carlisle, NBA player that won as a role player in Boston. Head coach who succeeded and fell short.
He is Rick Carlisle. Veteran coach who knows what it takes to win but teams don't always execute what they are given. Somtimes they lack the talent. The heart, the drive. Sometimes a player goes off the rails and engages into a fight and the season gets lost. Players retire, get injured. sometimes you make finals and the other teams loses their mind in arrogance and your team executes and wins!
He is all of that and way more in 22 seasons. That is Rick Carlisle. The notion he is who he is without change is silly. Jason Kidd is evolving. Maybe still an arrogant prick but is he becoming a better coach?
Players have stats to judge and measure. some great coaches are assholes and never won as a coach. George Karl. Don Nelson won a shit ton of games as a coach, but not a chip. Larry Brown is a prick, and he knows it. "Next town" is becuase he knows after 5 years his owner, FO, and players have had enough of him. Only coach to win both NCAA and NBA chip.
How to judge Thibs? He had one great player in his prime that fell at age 22. In Minny the roster was too young for him. Jimmy was bought in year two for Lavine and on paper a great move. They made playoffs but did not have the grit to move on vs a SUPERIOR TEAM. Year Three Thibs fails because Jimmy revolts, and Thibs cannot coach the immature roster and is fired mid year.
Is that who he is? The dude that took Bulls maybe farther than possible but not sustained in playoffs due to BETTER OPONENTS or the dude that over worked his players?
In Minny, what is he? The tough obsessive coach who tried to build with young entitled egos and could not get thru to them?
After a few years out of the game but still participating he reboots with Leon and learns to adapt his style to the egos of the modern athlete. His players love him. The ones that don't, are those that don't get to play as they might think. Pro athlete is a tough gig. Larry Brown used to say you don't coach motivation in the pro's because professionals should be that. "PROFESSIONAL"!
I don't agree with everything thibs does in hindsight but I sure as hell don't think I can second guess him as a fan. All coaches hit and miss.
The great ones have great players and still things have to align damn near perfect.
It makes me appreciate what Phil Jax did as a coach even more. Sure he had Jordan and Kobe. But neither won a chip without him nor won every year. Not all on them of course. Phil did not win every year he coached either.
Im sure Carlisle had years he regrets and did a shit job. Thibs the same.
This the dude who after Randles shit year said he had to do a better job. He did and Jules returned to form last year better than ever. Both coach and player in synch. Wonderful when it happens.
Thibs coached one of the best offenses in the league last year. Defense suffered. He coached to his roster. We saw the OG trade really what his vision is.
Still they developed IQ and RJ and was patient until an opportunity came about. Admire this teams patience.
Denver stuck thru with Malone for a number of years until they broke thru. Did he become a better coach over time? In part. Did his talent get healthy and then execute his plan? Yep. They won! Great story out there of a franchise with a long view. Hindsight makes it even easier to admire.
If we don't win a chip with this team and coach it will suck, but who is to say another coach could have done better?
Im taken back by a minority of few who are blasting him in the face of massive injuries. Not only did we lose 4 starters, Isiah been hobbled!
That any wins even with JB is impressive for the coach and the players. Our guys stepped up!!!!
Railing him because Toppin and Charlie Brown are not getting minutes? Wow
The only questionable part tonight was whether he was just going to score, or score and get the foul.
