Knicks · In a vacuum, who are you going after next if you Leon? Donovan or Mikal? (page 1)
For me, I think the shorter term plan is one of these 2 guys. Tea leaves are just too prominent. Maybe it never happens cause of circumstances.
But who is your main target or the one you would rather have in the fold?
SG that is a perfect mold Villanova guy - shooter, spacer, defensive blanket, etc. OR a more dynamic player in the mold of Brunson himself but slightly different?
DLeethal wrote:What's crazy to think about is that going after Brunson and subsequently all of his college buddies / teammates reeks of cronyism in most cases BUT in this case they were also A+ basketball moves. It's not like employing Thanasis to please Giannis, we found amazing support players by going after Brunson's best friends. Really unusual situation that is working out very well for us.
DLeethal wrote:Another part of the Villanova thing that is an odd coincidence is not only are these guys great players, they push each other to maximize their talents and they mesh really well, they all happen to be Thibs guys, which we've seen is NOT a given and hard for some players to figure out. How many players have we seen struggle to thrive in the 2 spot in this offense under Thibs, it got to the point where many people thought it would be impossible for anyone to thrive in Grimes' role the way Thibs coaches and Randle/Brunson play, than DDV just waltzes in and shows it's very possible for a 3 point shooter to get volume 3s in this offense and shoot 40%.
what we don't have are guesses to what a package might look like for Donovan given Clev is a very good team NOW.
Nets are bit easy to throw massive quantities of picks at. The money is much easier on Mikal's contract.
Love the romantic thought of bringing him across the river. Do we tempt faith and somehow do an "OG for Mikal" trade?
IQ and RJ should have been enough?
Why didn't Lowery sign with us? (Deuce?)
Nets might not be at all interested and while one might think he'd be chomping at the bit to come here Mikal might be looking at a fat ass deal Nets we could not pay?
That said, Can we keep our team and bring in Donovan??? Who goes out?
fishmike wrote:I really dont want Donovan. Mikal is the Thib's pick easy. That's a legendary defense.
I am like 55/45 in the Mikal boat over Donovan.
The big thing Donovan has over Mikal is the end of game situations or minutes where Brunson is not on the floor and you don't have a ballhandler/PG that can just get his own in tight situations. Donovan gives you that.
tough one for me.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:I really dont want Donovan. Mikal is the Thib's pick easy. That's a legendary defense.I am like 55/45 in the Mikal boat over Donovan.
The big thing Donovan has over Mikal is the end of game situations or minutes where Brunson is not on the floor and you don't have a ballhandler/PG that can just get his own in tight situations. Donovan gives you that.
tough one for me.
Curious, While JB has really blossomed from out of the shadow of Luka, would he not be cast in shade next to Donovan. They are different but Donovan the better player.
Not that anyone would have an issues sacrificing their game let alone JB, but is either the finishing piece? If OG and iHart/mitch retained Perhaps!!!!
we also badly need another playmaker.
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:I really dont want Donovan. Mikal is the Thib's pick easy. That's a legendary defense.I am like 55/45 in the Mikal boat over Donovan.
The big thing Donovan has over Mikal is the end of game situations or minutes where Brunson is not on the floor and you don't have a ballhandler/PG that can just get his own in tight situations. Donovan gives you that.
tough one for me.
Curious, While JB has really blossomed from out of the shadow of Luka, would he not be cast in shade next to Donovan. They are different but Donovan the better player.
Not that anyone would have an issues sacrificing their game let alone JB, but is either the finishing piece? If OG and iHart/mitch retained Perhaps!!!!
That may be your opinion but not others. As well, this is Brunson's team, there will be no cast in shade next to Donovan. I think they can co-exist, just like Randle and Brunson.
nycericanguy wrote:DM... seems to be alot of smoke there and he's just flat out a better player. Stars win and while Mikal might fit better he's simply not better than DM.we also badly need another playmaker.
The biggest 2 qualities the Knicks are needing: another playmaker and end of game go-to guy (who will also get calls). DM solves both of those in a way Mikal I don't think can do.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:I really dont want Donovan. Mikal is the Thib's pick easy. That's a legendary defense.I am like 55/45 in the Mikal boat over Donovan.
The big thing Donovan has over Mikal is the end of game situations or minutes where Brunson is not on the floor and you don't have a ballhandler/PG that can just get his own in tight situations. Donovan gives you that.
tough one for me.
Curious, While JB has really blossomed from out of the shadow of Luka, would he not be cast in shade next to Donovan. They are different but Donovan the better player.
Not that anyone would have an issues sacrificing their game let alone JB, but is either the finishing piece? If OG and iHart/mitch retained Perhaps!!!!That may be your opinion but not others. As well, this is Brunson's team, there will be no cast in shade next to Donovan. I think they can co-exist, just like Randle and Brunson.
I would imagine the vast majority of people in basketball would rank DM over Mikal.
I dont trust Randle as a long term #2, especially come playoff time. It's why I feel so bad we traded RJ, he could have had that spacing here if we had moved Randle instead.
Brunson needs help not just in terms of scoring but in terms of playmaking/ball handling. DM solves both.
martin wrote:Hope you don't mind me stealing your thunder but I thought this was a good offshoot topic.For me, I think the shorter term plan is one of these 2 guys. Tea leaves are just too prominent. Maybe it never happens cause of circumstances.
But who is your main target or the one you would rather have in the fold?
SG that is a perfect mold Villanova guy - shooter, spacer, defensive blanket, etc. OR a more dynamic player in the mold of Brunson himself but slightly different?
DLeethal wrote:What's crazy to think about is that going after Brunson and subsequently all of his college buddies / teammates reeks of cronyism in most cases BUT in this case they were also A+ basketball moves. It's not like employing Thanasis to please Giannis, we found amazing support players by going after Brunson's best friends. Really unusual situation that is working out very well for us.DLeethal wrote:Another part of the Villanova thing that is an odd coincidence is not only are these guys great players, they push each other to maximize their talents and they mesh really well, they all happen to be Thibs guys, which we've seen is NOT a given and hard for some players to figure out. How many players have we seen struggle to thrive in the 2 spot in this offense under Thibs, it got to the point where many people thought it would be impossible for anyone to thrive in Grimes' role the way Thibs coaches and Randle/Brunson play, than DDV just waltzes in and shows it's very possible for a 3 point shooter to get volume 3s in this offense and shoot 40%.
In a vacuum, Bridges is the better basketball move. Stick with the Nova Knicks vibe. Add a 2nd lockdown defender to the wings. Bridges contract is more manageable while the cap smooths. Bridges has positional size at SG and SF.
I love love Spida and if Brunson wasn't here, I would have started the build around Spida. But this team is now built around Brunson and in that regard, Bridges is the better fit.
DDV is nowhere near good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for DM, no matter how many picks we add as CLE is a win now team.
The Nets actually make more sense as they are rebuilding and we could offer them 5 1sts, but that's a huge wall to break down in getting them to trade with us.
nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:I really dont want Donovan. Mikal is the Thib's pick easy. That's a legendary defense.I am like 55/45 in the Mikal boat over Donovan.
The big thing Donovan has over Mikal is the end of game situations or minutes where Brunson is not on the floor and you don't have a ballhandler/PG that can just get his own in tight situations. Donovan gives you that.
tough one for me.
Curious, While JB has really blossomed from out of the shadow of Luka, would he not be cast in shade next to Donovan. They are different but Donovan the better player.
Not that anyone would have an issues sacrificing their game let alone JB, but is either the finishing piece? If OG and iHart/mitch retained Perhaps!!!!That may be your opinion but not others. As well, this is Brunson's team, there will be no cast in shade next to Donovan. I think they can co-exist, just like Randle and Brunson.
I would imagine the vast majority of people in basketball would rank DM over Mikal.
I dont trust Randle as a long term #2, especially come playoff time. It's why I feel so bad we traded RJ, he could have had that spacing here if we had moved Randle instead.
Brunson needs help not just in terms of scoring but in terms of playmaking/ball handling. DM solves both.
Hmmm, maybe I misread what Nalod was stating, or maybe I just got the context wrong. I thought he was comparing DM to Brunsn in the bolded not Mikal (if that is what you were responding to)
nycericanguy wrote:ultimately I'm not sure we have the ability to trade for either. We used alot of bullets this season. Obi, Grimes, RJ, IQ, 31st pick + 2 more seconds + Evan's expiring.DDV is nowhere near good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for DM, no matter how many picks we add as CLE is a win now team.
The Nets actually make more sense as they are rebuilding and we could offer them 5 1sts, but that's a huge wall to break down in getting them to trade with us.
IMHO you are misreading the leverage opportunity. Knicks have enough IMO.
And we need to remove the thought of DDV or Hart going on in a trade for either Mikal or DM. That is just not happening.
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:ultimately I'm not sure we have the ability to trade for either. We used alot of bullets this season. Obi, Grimes, RJ, IQ, 31st pick + 2 more seconds + Evan's expiring.DDV is nowhere near good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for DM, no matter how many picks we add as CLE is a win now team.
The Nets actually make more sense as they are rebuilding and we could offer them 5 1sts, but that's a huge wall to break down in getting them to trade with us.
IMHO you are misreading the leverage opportunity. Knicks have enough IMO.
And we need to remove the thought of DDV or Hart going on in a trade for either Mikal or DM. That is just not happening.
maybe, but its a precarious position to be in to have to rely on "leverage".
MIA thought they had leverage but there's usually another team that jumps in.
nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:ultimately I'm not sure we have the ability to trade for either. We used alot of bullets this season. Obi, Grimes, RJ, IQ, 31st pick + 2 more seconds + Evan's expiring.DDV is nowhere near good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for DM, no matter how many picks we add as CLE is a win now team.
The Nets actually make more sense as they are rebuilding and we could offer them 5 1sts, but that's a huge wall to break down in getting them to trade with us.
IMHO you are misreading the leverage opportunity. Knicks have enough IMO.
And we need to remove the thought of DDV or Hart going on in a trade for either Mikal or DM. That is just not happening.
maybe, but its a precarious position to be in to have to rely on "leverage".
MIA thought they had leverage but there's usually another team that jumps in.
It's true. Both guys need to force the trade. As did OG, Siakam and most other free agents that have a target destination.
Donovan has given the smoke signals. Mikal is a longer term wait cause of his contract.
Not for nothing but every other team is in that same boat.
martin wrote:That's Randle... until it isntnycericanguy wrote:DM... seems to be alot of smoke there and he's just flat out a better player. Stars win and while Mikal might fit better he's simply not better than DM.we also badly need another playmaker.
The biggest 2 qualities the Knicks are needing: another playmaker and end of game go-to guy (who will also get calls). DM solves both of those in a way Mikal I don't think can do.
Overall we are gelling really well since the trades so maybe the best move is no move for at least a season?
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:ultimately I'm not sure we have the ability to trade for either. We used alot of bullets this season. Obi, Grimes, RJ, IQ, 31st pick + 2 more seconds + Evan's expiring.DDV is nowhere near good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for DM, no matter how many picks we add as CLE is a win now team.
The Nets actually make more sense as they are rebuilding and we could offer them 5 1sts, but that's a huge wall to break down in getting them to trade with us.
IMHO you are misreading the leverage opportunity. Knicks have enough IMO.
And we need to remove the thought of DDV or Hart going on in a trade for either Mikal or DM. That is just not happening.
You got me. I think DM is a better player than JB. Not hating on JB nor discounting the season he is having.
I know he is a god send, a gift from the heavens and lord knows I am grateful!!!! On the heals of a 45pt night its hard to argue.
He carried knicks to the win last night.
Im not going to debate if he is better or not. I know the playoff argument is the wild card for some but there a too many factors to consider. Im looking at the body of work and age of each. Not just one or two series. If I have to pick one, Yeah, I stick with JB considering the price and value for the money.
Im intrigued by either Mikal or DM but our FO likley does some thing we don't see, will slam it, then turns to gold? LOL
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:ultimately I'm not sure we have the ability to trade for either. We used alot of bullets this season. Obi, Grimes, RJ, IQ, 31st pick + 2 more seconds + Evan's expiring.DDV is nowhere near good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for DM, no matter how many picks we add as CLE is a win now team.
The Nets actually make more sense as they are rebuilding and we could offer them 5 1sts, but that's a huge wall to break down in getting them to trade with us.
IMHO you are misreading the leverage opportunity. Knicks have enough IMO.
And we need to remove the thought of DDV or Hart going on in a trade for either Mikal or DM. That is just not happening.
You got me. I think DM is a better player than JB. Not hating on JB nor discounting the season he is having.
I know he is a god send, a gift from the heavens and lord knows I am grateful!!!! On the heals of a 45pt night its hard to argue.
He carried knicks to the win last night.
Im not going to debate if he is better or not. I know the playoff argument is the wild card for some but there a too many factors to consider. Im looking at the body of work and age of each. Not just one or two series. If I have to pick one, Yeah, I stick with JB considering the price and value for the money.
Im intrigued by either Mikal or DM but our FO likley does some thing we don't see, will slam it, then turns to gold? LOL
Maybe stick with Jalen cause he is already on team too? lol
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:ultimately I'm not sure we have the ability to trade for either. We used alot of bullets this season. Obi, Grimes, RJ, IQ, 31st pick + 2 more seconds + Evan's expiring.DDV is nowhere near good enough to be the centerpiece of a deal for DM, no matter how many picks we add as CLE is a win now team.
The Nets actually make more sense as they are rebuilding and we could offer them 5 1sts, but that's a huge wall to break down in getting them to trade with us.
IMHO you are misreading the leverage opportunity. Knicks have enough IMO.
And we need to remove the thought of DDV or Hart going on in a trade for either Mikal or DM. That is just not happening.
maybe, but its a precarious position to be in to have to rely on "leverage".
MIA thought they had leverage but there's usually another team that jumps in.
It's true. Both guys need to force the trade. As did OG, Siakam and most other free agents that have a target destination.
Donovan has given the smoke signals. Mikal is a longer term wait cause of his contract.
Not for nothing but every other team is in that same boat.
but we paid a hefty price for OG, not like we got him at some discount b/c he forced his way here. TOR was said to want both RJ & IQ over our picks.
Siakam is almost 30 years old and a non shooter so the market was a bit different for him.