Knicks · Let the Donovan to NY chatter officially begin (page 1)

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One has to look at it as what can Cav's do to win now?
DDV and Randle for Spida and Mobley. I put in Two first rounder picks and 2 2nd rounders.
Do I want to do this? Not really.

I love Donovan but you can't turn your back on DDV and Duece now. I think we just need to get more shooters that can defend and just add to what we have. We will need a replacement for Bogs and Burks. That's it. Hoping of course that Julius and OG comes back healthy for next year.

Nalod wrote:One has to look at it as what can Cav's do to win now?
DDV and Randle for Spida and Mobley. I put in Two first rounder picks and 2 2nd rounders.
Do I want to do this? Not really.

Objectively your transaction makes sense. But I don't think that trade goes down like that.

I think you have to believe the Knicks core is a Brunson team with pieces that make him better. Now, there are lots of players I would retain. Lots of players that are fundamentally perfect for this team. But if I were making a short list of the "core" that is essentially untradeable, I think I have this:

Brunson
____ / DDV
Anunoby / Hart
____
____

So while I think there are clearly better players out there than our "core", I don't think you see a trade of DDV or jHart without including Brunson.

Now, I think you will see them market Bogs contract next year, and maybe package it with Randle or Robinson for a higher price contract that complements Brunson, but realistically, I don't see a lot of players out there that are a significant upgrade on what we have. Mikal Bridges, JJJ, maybe Joel Embiid (health concerns being the obvious limitation). Other moves exist but they are somewhat lateral. The question comes back to which Randle you are getting every day. Triple double Randle should never get trade. Head-down, Spinover, chucker Randle should be moved for a pretzel with mustard.

My perfect offseason

1) OG picks up player option. Signs extension at blended average of $30 to 35mm per year
2) Resign iHart at 14mm per
3) Resign Precious at 8mm per
4) Pick up Bogs option. Trade Bogs, McBride and 3 picks to Brooklyn for Mikal Bridges.
5) Trade Randle, Robinson and 2 picks to Memphis for JJJ and Marcus Smart.

Brunson/Smart
Bridges/DDV
Anunoby/jHart
JJJ/Precious
iHart

The wings are mostly interchangeable, but I would try not to keep Smart, jHart and Precious on the floor together too long. Need a little more scoring. Just rotate a little differently. And I would want to have DDV, jHart and Brunson getting more time together.

The numbers would be close on the apron this year and in future years, they would probably have to make some changes or pay some taxes.

But I don't think I can think of a better offseason than this focused on building around Brunson.

NYKBocker wrote:I love Donovan but you can't turn your back on DDV and Duece now. I think we just need to get more shooters that can defend and just add to what we have. We will need a replacement for Bogs and Burks. That's it. Hoping of course that Julius and OG comes back healthy for next year.

Im more inclined to run it back next year.
Resigning iHart is important.
We dismiss Randle's 24 and 9 avg like its easy to replace.
at the same time Clev should not dismiss it either? Maybe I put OG at the 4?
Do we then start Josh at the 3, DDV and Precious off teh bench.
Cavs take Mitchell Rob, start Mobley at center. Allen to a 3rd team. We resign ihart.
Or, would Cavs be better with

Allen
Randle
DDV
Garland
Okoro

Knicks,

iHart
Mobley
OG
DM
JB

Now, if they think Mobley is the future then anything with him is a moot point in a trade. He avg 19 and nearly 10 rebs a game.
Cav's with DM are very good. I'd think they want value in return for the here and now? Do do this we have to give up to make that happen.
Thats where the fan boy in me gets lost. Have to consider what we get in return in DM and that's enticing.
Naturally there is draft compensation.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:One has to look at it as what can Cav's do to win now?
DDV and Randle for Spida and Mobley. I put in Two first rounder picks and 2 2nd rounders.
Do I want to do this? Not really.

Objectively your transaction makes sense. But I don't think that trade goes down like that.

I think you have to believe the Knicks core is a Brunson team with pieces that make him better. Now, there are lots of players I would retain. Lots of players that are fundamentally perfect for this team. But if I were making a short list of the "core" that is essentially untradeable, I think I have this:

Brunson
____ / DDV
Anunoby / Hart
____
____

So while I think there are clearly better players out there than our "core", I don't think you see a trade of DDV or jHart without including Brunson.

Now, I think you will see them market Bogs contract next year, and maybe package it with Randle or Robinson for a higher price contract that complements Brunson, but realistically, I don't see a lot of players out there that are a significant upgrade on what we have. Mikal Bridges, JJJ, maybe Joel Embiid (health concerns being the obvious limitation). Other moves exist but they are somewhat lateral. The question comes back to which Randle you are getting every day. Triple double Randle should never get trade. Head-down, Spinover, chucker Randle should be moved for a pretzel with mustard.

My perfect offseason

1) OG picks up player option. Signs extension at blended average of $30 to 35mm per year
2) Resign iHart at 14mm per
3) Resign Precious at 8mm per
4) Pick up Bogs option. Trade Bogs, McBride and 3 picks to Brooklyn for Mikal Bridges.
5) Trade Randle, Robinson and 2 picks to Memphis for JJJ and Marcus Smart.

Brunson/Smart
Bridges/DDV
Anunoby/jHart
JJJ/Precious
iHart

The wings are mostly interchangeable, but I would try not to keep Smart, jHart and Precious on the floor together too long. Need a little more scoring. Just rotate a little differently. And I would want to have DDV, jHart and Brunson getting more time together.

The numbers would be close on the apron this year and in future years, they would probably have to make some changes or pay some taxes.

But I don't think I can think of a better offseason than this focused on building around Brunson.

I like your take.

Interesting!

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I love Donovan, wish the Knicks had drafted him, but we have fantastic talent at the ‘small end’ with JB, DD, McBride and Josh Hart. We can’t and don’t need to add more power to our under 6’4” collection of players.

We need athletic length and grit upfront.

I’d love to grab two lengthy, athletic players with our pick and Dallas’ that have solid D instincts and can replicate somewhat the role of OG.

No.

martin wrote:Interesting!

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Gosh, I hope not. I want Johnnie Bryant here. I see him as Thibs’ successor

I don't think I want Spida here. It doesn't fit with Brunson. And he will be expensive and require a ton of picks and Deuce and maybe DVo included in that deal but Leon will be pressured to get that big fish and I rather it be him then Towns or LeBum.

I wouldn't pursue Mitchell right off the bat, I'd see what else is out there. He requires big minutes and we got have room for Devo and McBride. It's time to see what our Euro stash brings to the table.

Mitchell in NY with Brunson doesn’t make sense anymore (if it ever did).

Worse case is D.Mitchell going to Miami but I think he ends up in Brooklyn. Shame too because he and Allen were playing great together. Wonder if the move should be and try and keep Mitchell and move Garland

Swishfm3 wrote:Mitchell in NY with Brunson doesn’t make sense anymore (if it ever did).

Worse case is D.Mitchell going to Miami but I think he ends up in Brooklyn. Shame too because he and Allen were playing great together. Wonder if the move should be and try and keep Mitchell and move Garland

Staying in Cleveland could be an option if they draft Brony and bring LeBum back for a 3rd time.

We are a good team. Playoff quality, ECF team if all the stars align. The question is what's missing to win it all. We are not dominant( although we were in January, that was a Championship contender team)perhaps it's the injuries. Possibly maybe:) I do think this team has another gear or two. The reason I say that is our recent amazing passing. Brunson gives up the ball, Hartenstein passes so well and the whole team follows. I think that's our key to winning big. We could win it all if we get better and more comfortable at sharing the ball. Our D is already there if we keep up the intensity. Our O just needs a little push to get us over the hump. I believe in Villanueva boys. With improved passing we could contend for a Championship. Hartenstein is key.

The flip side is Donovan Mitchell. How much more does he give is than DDV? Is almost a sideways move, nearly. Yeah he creates points unlike Donte. But we have that already in spades with Brunson and Randle and Hartenstein( he creates Championship type of points with his assists) if we could get Mitchell in free agency than we are a Finals team. If we need to get rid of Donte, Deuce etc. then it's sideways at best

ramtour420 wrote:We are a good team. Playoff quality, ECF team if all the stars align. The question is what's missing to win it all. We are not dominant( although we were in January, that was a Championship contender team)perhaps it's the injuries. Possibly maybe:) I do think this team has another gear or two. The reason I say that is our recent amazing passing. Brunson gives up the ball, Hartenstein passes so well and the whole team follows. I think that's our key to winning big. We could win it all if we get better and more comfortable at sharing the ball. Our D is already there if we keep up the intensity. Our O just needs a little push to get us over the hump. I believe in Villanueva boys. With improved passing we could contend for a Championship. Hartenstein is key.

The flip side is Donovan Mitchell. How much more does he give is than DDV? Is almost a sideways move, nearly. Yeah he creates points unlike Donte. But we have that already in spades with Brunson and Randle and Hartenstein( he creates Championship type of points with his assists) if we could get Mitchell in free agency than we are a Finals team. If we need to get rid of Donte, Deuce etc. then it's sideways at best

the DDV honey moon is still good but DM is all NBA caliber. Sure you can find a playoff gap but few players can carry a team on its back further.
Im not saying I want to pay the price Cav's should be asking but if you can add DM and keep our core together the garden will rock!!!!!

franco12 wrote:I love Donovan, wish the Knicks had drafted him, but we have fantastic talent at the ‘small end’ with JB, DD, McBride and Josh Hart. We can’t and don’t need to add more power to our under 6’4” collection of players.

We need athletic length and grit upfront.

I’d love to grab two lengthy, athletic players with our pick and Dallas’ that have solid D instincts and can replicate somewhat the role of OG.

We need a Brandon Ingram type player.

Panos wrote:

franco12 wrote:I love Donovan, wish the Knicks had drafted him, but we have fantastic talent at the ‘small end’ with JB, DD, McBride and Josh Hart. We can’t and don’t need to add more power to our under 6’4” collection of players.

We need athletic length and grit upfront.

I’d love to grab two lengthy, athletic players with our pick and Dallas’ that have solid D instincts and can replicate somewhat the role of OG.

We need a Brandon Ingram type player.

No to soft expensive bigs.

Nalod wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:We are a good team. Playoff quality, ECF team if all the stars align. The question is what's missing to win it all. We are not dominant( although we were in January, that was a Championship contender team)perhaps it's the injuries. Possibly maybe:) I do think this team has another gear or two. The reason I say that is our recent amazing passing. Brunson gives up the ball, Hartenstein passes so well and the whole team follows. I think that's our key to winning big. We could win it all if we get better and more comfortable at sharing the ball. Our D is already there if we keep up the intensity. Our O just needs a little push to get us over the hump. I believe in Villanueva boys. With improved passing we could contend for a Championship. Hartenstein is key.

The flip side is Donovan Mitchell. How much more does he give is than DDV? Is almost a sideways move, nearly. Yeah he creates points unlike Donte. But we have that already in spades with Brunson and Randle and Hartenstein( he creates Championship type of points with his assists) if we could get Mitchell in free agency than we are a Finals team. If we need to get rid of Donte, Deuce etc. then it's sideways at best

the DDV honey moon is still good but DM is all NBA caliber. Sure you can find a playoff gap but few players can carry a team on its back further.
Im not saying I want to pay the price Cav's should be asking but if you can add DM and keep our core together the garden will rock!!!!!

Problem is you can't. Reason why I don't pay attention to or like any of the trade talk involving Spider.
If he comes after his contract is over.....I will be ecstatic .

Imo, sometimes the answer is in front of ones face. As is the many factors behind trade suggestions.
With the way we played and looked in January, why not keep that team together and see what a full year brings.
The move is not to make big changes.
If impatient fans take time to see the reality of financial challenges they would see the move is to use draft picks this year and stay away from big signings.
Why get rid of the several value contracts we have for ONE player?
Filling roster spots with low cost draft picks will be essential in order to use that cap space for renewals. (Hart, OG)his is the time to use the draft picks.
I believe the smart FO will use the draft this year and be patient.
2025 is the year some big names may be available.

Now that we traded RJ and IQ I think any trade for DM would have to involve a 3rd team at this point.

CLE isn't going to want a bunch of picks, they're going to want players to help them now too.

The other issue is we have such a strong NOVA thing going on that it almost makes those guys untouchable, especially considering Brunson will be due a contract after next season, so do you risk upsetting him by trading DDV?

If DDV is off the table you're looking at Miles + picks as our assets but that's not nearly enough. I think Randle or Mitch would have to be flipped to a 3rd team that could give CLE a solid player.

nycericanguy wrote:Now that we traded RJ and IQ I think any trade for DM would have to involve a 3rd team at this point.

CLE isn't going to want a bunch of picks, they're going to want players to help them now too.

The other issue is we have such a strong NOVA thing going on that it almost makes those guys untouchable, especially considering Brunson will be due a contract after next season, so do you risk upsetting him by trading DDV?

If DDV is off the table you're looking at Miles + picks as our assets but that's not nearly enough. I think Randle or Mitch would have to be flipped to a 3rd team that could give CLE a solid player.

My guess is we would bring in multiple teams, so likely a 4 team trade, moving contracts and picks to each additional team that has quality players we can route to Cleveland. For example, Knicks can move a contact and picks to Washington for Kuzma and/or to Portland for Grant and Brogdon. Guys like that would help keep cleveland competitive.