Knicks · What you giving up for Mikal? (page 4)

DLeethal wrote:I love Deuce but I think ideally there’s a legit playmaker off the bench with him. I don’t know that it has to be a PG i.e it could be a Derozan type. But we will struggle when Brunson gets hurt. We need another ball handler on the team next year IMO and the only way to get a good one is to draft one or get a guy who has a nightly role and plays next to Deuce.

100% and this is why I am head over heals for Deni. He *potentially* fits the space you are describing off bench at a wing position who can almost double up as a PG. He is no where near Demar... today.

He has potential to be that guy and defend (one of the better wing defenders in league) and space and grow into a playoff starter.

His descending contract is double bonus.

Deni would make Precious expendable. He could double as ball handler or central offensive focus while also being Randle and OG's backup as a starter, very interchangeable.

I don't give us as much as I would for Mikal, but I would give up significant resources going out.

DLeethal wrote:I love Deuce but I think ideally there’s a legit playmaker off the bench with him. I don’t know that it has to be a PG i.e it could be a Derozan type. But we will struggle when Brunson gets hurt. We need another ball handler on the team next year IMO and the only way to get a good one is to draft one or get a guy who has a nightly role and plays next to Deuce.

I like the idea of trading up for KyShawn George if we can't land an established player. We need a SF. We need a ballhandler. He does both

DLeethal wrote:I love Deuce but I think ideally there’s a legit playmaker off the bench with him. I don’t know that it has to be a PG i.e it could be a Derozan type. But we will struggle when Brunson gets hurt. We need another ball handler on the team next year IMO and the only way to get a good one is to draft one or get a guy who has a nightly role and plays next to Deuce.

I think we already have one in Randle... their minutes will intersect.

Our bench is pretty much well set with Deuce, Hart, Mitch, Bogs. and I assume we will add another rookie or two. So it's more about mixing guys together.

I do like a guy like Derozan on this team though.

SupremeCommander wrote:I do love the idea of adding Mikal from a culture perspective. If you are going to pay 120% of what's something's worth, it makes a lot of sense to target the piece that would be a seamless fit from a cultural perspective

I still really don't know exactly how he fits in though. We would want more Nova guys, so what happens when Bridges, Hart, and DDV are fighting for the same minutes? Would Hart be willing to play PF full time? If so what does that mean for OG? I am hesitant with Bridges simply because of our current roster. I feel like what makes the most sense would be to trade Hart of DDV and then that makes me like the idea of overpaying for a Nova guy a lot less

I mean, they are fighting for wins, no? Everything I have seen about these guys is that they are tenacious, are always ready and do whatever they need to do to win. Hart apple up about the lack of minutes early in the season, and it’s been Thibs joke all season “he just wants more minutes”.

Brunson 32
Bridges 32
OG 32
Randle 32
DDV 32
J Hart 32
I Hart 24
Robinson 24

I mean, what’s the issue? :)

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I love Deuce but I think ideally there’s a legit playmaker off the bench with him. I don’t know that it has to be a PG i.e it could be a Derozan type. But we will struggle when Brunson gets hurt. We need another ball handler on the team next year IMO and the only way to get a good one is to draft one or get a guy who has a nightly role and plays next to Deuce.

100% and this is why I am head over heals for Deni. He *potentially* fits the space you are describing off bench at a wing position who can almost double up as a PG. He is no where near Demar... today.

He has potential to be that guy and defend (one of the better wing defenders in league) and space and grow into a playoff starter.

His descending contract is double bonus.

Deni would make Precious expendable. He could double as ball handler or central offensive focus while also being Randle and OG's backup as a starter, very interchangeable.

I don't give us as much as I would for Mikal, but I would give up significant resources going out.

i always liked Deni but not sure he;s a guy we'd invest in. he's a young player that needs minutes and chance to grow. Not to come here and be a 7th man. we have our Deni in Hart, very hard to find a role for another Hart type.

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I do love the idea of adding Mikal from a culture perspective. If you are going to pay 120% of what's something's worth, it makes a lot of sense to target the piece that would be a seamless fit from a cultural perspective

I still really don't know exactly how he fits in though. We would want more Nova guys, so what happens when Bridges, Hart, and DDV are fighting for the same minutes? Would Hart be willing to play PF full time? If so what does that mean for OG? I am hesitant with Bridges simply because of our current roster. I feel like what makes the most sense would be to trade Hart of DDV and then that makes me like the idea of overpaying for a Nova guy a lot less

I mean, they are fighting for wins, no? Everything I have seen about these guys is that they are tenacious, are always ready and do whatever they need to do to win. Hart apple up about the lack of minutes early in the season, and it’s been Thibs joke all season “he just wants more minutes”.

Brunson 32
Bridges 32
OG 32
Randle 32
DDV 32
J Hart 32
I Hart 24
Robinson 24

I mean, what’s the issue? :)

Well, yes and no. Don't you remember how miserable Hart sounded when he came off the bench to start last year? Remember how pained he sounded to be playing PF?

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:i don't see OG and Mikal on the same team. too redundant in many ways

we need someone who can reliably handle the ball, and is clutch.

I have to tell you, on a team with Brunson, Randle, iHart... I think those 2 guys are legit the perfect complimentary players.

Like, I wouldn't pick any 2 others, give or take. Yeah yeah, I'd take Ant over Mikal, but you know what I mean.

I might not be giving Mikal anough credit but i do think we need a star level who can handle in the clutch. (OG was that for about 5 minutes when Brunson was out before OG came up with his strain)

to me a lot depends on if Mikal can play 2. If so we're back to being a loooong team eith him at 2, OG at 3.

And this is what I don't know enough about regarding Mikal. I think he is much better ball handler and breakdown guy than OG, but so am I and I'm prob not sober. I think he is also better than DDV.

But much better than DDV with ball in hands... Dont know.

Objectively, I want the Mikal Bridges from the Phoenix Suns and not the one from the Nets. Suns Bridges was a 15% usage guy that benefited from strong primary ballhandler. 15 points on 60% efg. In Brooklyn, his usage doubled and his efficiency dropped. He went from 15 ppg to 19 ppg on 5 more attempts per game. Somewhat answering the question on whether he could be a primary scorer - NO. But I am not looking for primary scorers next to Brunson and Randle. I think he can give you the same 40% from 3 that DDV brings with a bit more positional size.

What Mikal brings is another defensive stalwart that is not a liability on offense. Give us a little more size to hang with the larger guards. You are putting another 7 foot perimeter defender with terrific on ball defense and quick hands. I don't think there is a better one/two defensive pairing than Bridges/Anunoby. Leonard/George is the only comparison.

Yeah. I think Mikal is a guy who THRIVES when around guys like Randle and Brunson. Just put him in the right role.

I want a new-age Scottie Pippen; someone the other team worries about and wonders whether they'd prefer MJ handling the ball instead. And someone who can contribute without the ball in his hands in whatever way.

it's a way of managing load for JB without minutes police.

That said, those guys might be in house already. Maybe Hard or Ragu have that as their homework assignment.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I love Deuce but I think ideally there’s a legit playmaker off the bench with him. I don’t know that it has to be a PG i.e it could be a Derozan type. But we will struggle when Brunson gets hurt. We need another ball handler on the team next year IMO and the only way to get a good one is to draft one or get a guy who has a nightly role and plays next to Deuce.

100% and this is why I am head over heals for Deni. He *potentially* fits the space you are describing off bench at a wing position who can almost double up as a PG. He is no where near Demar... today.

He has potential to be that guy and defend (one of the better wing defenders in league) and space and grow into a playoff starter.

His descending contract is double bonus.

Deni would make Precious expendable. He could double as ball handler or central offensive focus while also being Randle and OG's backup as a starter, very interchangeable.

I don't give us as much as I would for Mikal, but I would give up significant resources going out.

i always liked Deni but not sure he;s a guy we'd invest in. he's a young player that needs minutes and chance to grow. Not to come here and be a 7th man. we have our Deni in Hart, very hard to find a role for another Hart type.

I have the opposite take. Deni is barely a solid guy on a bad team right now. You put guys into good positions - like not making Deuce a primary ball handler and instead let him take light duty and focus on shooting and defending - they can absolutely grow. He can and would get minutes on that second unit and in the first unit in a pinch. 7th man and as a centerpiece of the second unit on a deep playoff team is the perfect fit for him.

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:i don't see OG and Mikal on the same team. too redundant in many ways

we need someone who can reliably handle the ball, and is clutch.

I have to tell you, on a team with Brunson, Randle, iHart... I think those 2 guys are legit the perfect complimentary players.

Like, I wouldn't pick any 2 others, give or take. Yeah yeah, I'd take Ant over Mikal, but you know what I mean.

I might not be giving Mikal anough credit but i do think we need a star level who can handle in the clutch. (OG was that for about 5 minutes when Brunson was out before OG came up with his strain)

to me a lot depends on if Mikal can play 2. If so we're back to being a loooong team eith him at 2, OG at 3.

And this is what I don't know enough about regarding Mikal. I think he is much better ball handler and breakdown guy than OG, but so am I and I'm prob not sober. I think he is also better than DDV.

But much better than DDV with ball in hands... Dont know.

Objectively, I want the Mikal Bridges from the Phoenix Suns and not the one from the Nets. Suns Bridges was a 15% usage guy that benefited from strong primary ballhandler. 15 points on 60% efg. In Brooklyn, his usage doubled and his efficiency dropped. He went from 15 ppg to 19 ppg on 5 more attempts per game. Somewhat answering the question on whether he could be a primary scorer - NO. But I am not looking for primary scorers next to Brunson and Randle. I think he can give you the same 40% from 3 that DDV brings with a bit more positional size.

What Mikal brings is another defensive stalwart that is not a liability on offense. Give us a little more size to hang with the larger guards. You are putting another 7 foot perimeter defender with terrific on ball defense and quick hands. I don't think there is a better one/two defensive pairing than Bridges/Anunoby. Leonard/George is the only comparison.

Yeah. I think Mikal is a guy who THRIVES when around guys like Randle and Brunson. Just put him in the right role.

I want a new-age Scottie Pippen; someone the other team worries about and wonders whether they'd prefer MJ handling the ball instead. And someone who can contribute without the ball in his hands in whatever way.

it's a way of managing load for JB without minutes police.

That said, those guys might be in house already. Maybe Hard or Ragu have that as their homework assignment.

Who is that new-age Scottie Pippen? I want him on the team too but that's just a fantasy?

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:i don't see OG and Mikal on the same team. too redundant in many ways

we need someone who can reliably handle the ball, and is clutch.

I have to tell you, on a team with Brunson, Randle, iHart... I think those 2 guys are legit the perfect complimentary players.

Like, I wouldn't pick any 2 others, give or take. Yeah yeah, I'd take Ant over Mikal, but you know what I mean.

I might not be giving Mikal anough credit but i do think we need a star level who can handle in the clutch. (OG was that for about 5 minutes when Brunson was out before OG came up with his strain)

to me a lot depends on if Mikal can play 2. If so we're back to being a loooong team eith him at 2, OG at 3.

And this is what I don't know enough about regarding Mikal. I think he is much better ball handler and breakdown guy than OG, but so am I and I'm prob not sober. I think he is also better than DDV.

But much better than DDV with ball in hands... Dont know.

Objectively, I want the Mikal Bridges from the Phoenix Suns and not the one from the Nets. Suns Bridges was a 15% usage guy that benefited from strong primary ballhandler. 15 points on 60% efg. In Brooklyn, his usage doubled and his efficiency dropped. He went from 15 ppg to 19 ppg on 5 more attempts per game. Somewhat answering the question on whether he could be a primary scorer - NO. But I am not looking for primary scorers next to Brunson and Randle. I think he can give you the same 40% from 3 that DDV brings with a bit more positional size.

What Mikal brings is another defensive stalwart that is not a liability on offense. Give us a little more size to hang with the larger guards. You are putting another 7 foot perimeter defender with terrific on ball defense and quick hands. I don't think there is a better one/two defensive pairing than Bridges/Anunoby. Leonard/George is the only comparison.

Yeah. I think Mikal is a guy who THRIVES when around guys like Randle and Brunson. Just put him in the right role.

I want a new-age Scottie Pippen; someone the other team worries about and wonders whether they'd prefer MJ handling the ball instead. And someone who can contribute without the ball in his hands in whatever way.

it's a way of managing load for JB without minutes police.

That said, those guys might be in house already. Maybe Hard or Ragu have that as their homework assignment.

Who is that new-age Scottie Pippen? I want him on the team too but that's just a fantasy?

Mario Hezonja

i'm not smart enough to figure that out. Maybe Hart grows into that, or Deni. Someone who has flaws (like Scottie with outside shooting) so he is attainable at an excellent value but who can initiate offense in the clutch if necessary

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:i don't see OG and Mikal on the same team. too redundant in many ways

we need someone who can reliably handle the ball, and is clutch.

I have to tell you, on a team with Brunson, Randle, iHart... I think those 2 guys are legit the perfect complimentary players.

Like, I wouldn't pick any 2 others, give or take. Yeah yeah, I'd take Ant over Mikal, but you know what I mean.

I might not be giving Mikal anough credit but i do think we need a star level who can handle in the clutch. (OG was that for about 5 minutes when Brunson was out before OG came up with his strain)

to me a lot depends on if Mikal can play 2. If so we're back to being a loooong team eith him at 2, OG at 3.

And this is what I don't know enough about regarding Mikal. I think he is much better ball handler and breakdown guy than OG, but so am I and I'm prob not sober. I think he is also better than DDV.

But much better than DDV with ball in hands... Dont know.

Objectively, I want the Mikal Bridges from the Phoenix Suns and not the one from the Nets. Suns Bridges was a 15% usage guy that benefited from strong primary ballhandler. 15 points on 60% efg. In Brooklyn, his usage doubled and his efficiency dropped. He went from 15 ppg to 19 ppg on 5 more attempts per game. Somewhat answering the question on whether he could be a primary scorer - NO. But I am not looking for primary scorers next to Brunson and Randle. I think he can give you the same 40% from 3 that DDV brings with a bit more positional size.

What Mikal brings is another defensive stalwart that is not a liability on offense. Give us a little more size to hang with the larger guards. You are putting another 7 foot perimeter defender with terrific on ball defense and quick hands. I don't think there is a better one/two defensive pairing than Bridges/Anunoby. Leonard/George is the only comparison.

Yeah. I think Mikal is a guy who THRIVES when around guys like Randle and Brunson. Just put him in the right role.

I want a new-age Scottie Pippen; someone the other team worries about and wonders whether they'd prefer MJ handling the ball instead. And someone who can contribute without the ball in his hands in whatever way.

it's a way of managing load for JB without minutes police.

That said, those guys might be in house already. Maybe Hard or Ragu have that as their homework assignment.

Who is that new-age Scottie Pippen? I want him on the team too but that's just a fantasy?

Mario Hezonja

i'm not smart enough to figure that out. Maybe Hart grows into that, or Deni. Someone who has flaws (like Scottie with outside shooting) so he is attainable at an excellent value but who can initiate offense in the clutch if necessary

SupremeCommander wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I do love the idea of adding Mikal from a culture perspective. If you are going to pay 120% of what's something's worth, it makes a lot of sense to target the piece that would be a seamless fit from a cultural perspective

I still really don't know exactly how he fits in though. We would want more Nova guys, so what happens when Bridges, Hart, and DDV are fighting for the same minutes? Would Hart be willing to play PF full time? If so what does that mean for OG? I am hesitant with Bridges simply because of our current roster. I feel like what makes the most sense would be to trade Hart of DDV and then that makes me like the idea of overpaying for a Nova guy a lot less

I mean, they are fighting for wins, no? Everything I have seen about these guys is that they are tenacious, are always ready and do whatever they need to do to win. Hart apple up about the lack of minutes early in the season, and it’s been Thibs joke all season “he just wants more minutes”.

Brunson 32
Bridges 32
OG 32
Randle 32
DDV 32
J Hart 32
I Hart 24
Robinson 24

I mean, what’s the issue? :)

Well, yes and no. Don't you remember how miserable Hart sounded when he came off the bench to start last year? Remember how pained he sounded to be playing PF?

I mean, Hart is coming off the bench either way once Randle is back, right?

maybe you can also flip Mitch to a 3rd team for another asset and re-sign Precious.

Ihart/Precious/Sims
Randle
OG/Hart
Mikal/DDV
Brunson/Rokas

BigDaddyG wrote:. Personally I think they already have that in Josh. Bruce Brown is out there but that's a lot of salary for next season.

I don't think Toronto will pick up his club option. I'm guessing he hits free agency and is a MLE guy.

I don't really see the need for another play maker off the bench. This will stagger Brunson and Randle's minutes and always keep one of them on the court. As a very backup- Burks?

A lot of younger guys won't like not having a role when the team is at full strength.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I love Deuce but I think ideally there’s a legit playmaker off the bench with him. I don’t know that it has to be a PG i.e it could be a Derozan type. But we will struggle when Brunson gets hurt. We need another ball handler on the team next year IMO and the only way to get a good one is to draft one or get a guy who has a nightly role and plays next to Deuce.

100% and this is why I am head over heals for Deni. He *potentially* fits the space you are describing off bench at a wing position who can almost double up as a PG. He is no where near Demar... today.

He has potential to be that guy and defend (one of the better wing defenders in league) and space and grow into a playoff starter.

His descending contract is double bonus.

Deni would make Precious expendable. He could double as ball handler or central offensive focus while also being Randle and OG's backup as a starter, very interchangeable.

I don't give us as much as I would for Mikal, but I would give up significant resources going out.

i always liked Deni but not sure he;s a guy we'd invest in. he's a young player that needs minutes and chance to grow. Not to come here and be a 7th man. we have our Deni in Hart, very hard to find a role for another Hart type.

We need depth. Injuries slaughtered us this year. Getting Randle back should solve the problem somewhat but Mike Francesa has voiced concerns over chemistry with Randle and the rest of the team going forward and I have to agree

Philc1 wrote:Randle and 3x firsts but nets aren’t doing the trade with us

who plays PF in that scenario?

jaydh wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Randle and 3x firsts but nets aren’t doing the trade with us

who plays PF in that scenario?

OG and Hart. Like they just did for the last 6 months

martin wrote:I’d guess some variation on Mitch/Bogey, Deuce would be considered with picks.

Where is your line?

Switch out Mitch for Bogey and I do this in a heartbeat.

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I'd sent Mitch and someone else (current roster) rather than some of valued Knicks draft picks

How about NYK Robinson, 1 draft pick and another reliable Knick player like as Bojan Bogdanovic?