Knicks · What you giving up for Mikal? (page 7)
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:If I might, Both of you are sort of correct. Randle is not highly coveted but I don't think he was on the block.
Being offered to utah was not quite "on the block". Being shopped is on the block to me.
If Giannis is available and wants Randle as part of a package, perhaps you do that.
Otherwise you stay with him.
As for being let go to walk in Laker land and NOLA he never achieved all star or All NBA prior to being with Thibs as a knick. He has improved about every year and was killing it this season after a rusty start.As for depth, DDV was off the bench to start the season. the Two Harts were off the bench. Thats three guys that became starters by seasons end.
You also had IQ!!!! WE had great depth!!! Next year all things being the same (It won't be) You still have one of Mitch or Isiah, Josh, Deuce and Bojan.See how things shake out!
How do you begin to substantiate this?
How do you openly covet a player on another team who is not on the market?
I'd like to know.
The Knicks FO hasn't said one thing over the course of their engagement. Does that mean they do not covet? Or should they openly slobber over Brunson and OG and let everyone else know their plans?
I am pretty good at this.
Is it called the Rebecca Harlow syndrome?
DLeethal wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I just don't see how Mikal makes sense with all the guys who have earned solid mins on this roster. I think our roster has proven capable of being elite. Don't want to see DDV or Hart dwindled down to 15 mpg. Would rather fill in the gaps with quality depth, some youngins, and maybe find a spot for an elite bench weapon. He's a 3 that would be playing the 2 and DDV and his elite quick release volume 3 shooting would be downgraded in a huge way.The only thing would make sense is swapping for Randle. Not sure I love that but could get behind it if it happened.
the min would be there. Jhart and DDV probably get cut to 26 and 22mpg ish... but this is of course not factoring injuries. and heck with OG we could probably see Randle at the 5 in spurts which we did see the brief times we had a full roster, which would open up even more minutes at the Forward spots.
I think with a guy like Mikal you could keep Randle and OG around 32mpg and really preserve them more. Even Brunson can probably go down a bit to 33/34...
Randle/OG - 32/16
OG/Jhart/Mikal - 16/26/6
Mikal/DDV - 26/22
Brunson/Deuce or Rokas - 35/13I guess. I mean I can definitely see us overcompensating on depth after what happened this year. And if there is any way to get the guys to all sacrifice minutes it's to do it for their college teammates.
Part of me thinks if you give Thibs that roster he would mostly want to play Brunson - DDV/Hart - Mikal - OG - iHart though. Like if were gonna go for this why not just trade Randle and try to get Finney Smith back in the process?
Thibs has never signalled that he doesn’t love Randle. To the contrary, Thibs has shown that he is 100% invested in developing Randle to reach his maximum potential. Randle is in his prime. A 100% bought in Randle is a force to be reckoned with and Thibs and the FO know this. Randle on his meds is a total beast.
Thibs has never signaled he doesn't love any of these guys. Just saying with all of those guys on the same roster, wouldn't be crazy for Thibs to lean towards the crazy defense and shooting. Not saying Randle wouldn't get his mins, but would Thibs start to favor the Hart/Mikal/OG lineup to finish? He's had Hart finish games since he's been here no matter who's been on the team.
There is a pretty decent sample size that says a starting 5 of
Brunson
DiVincenzo
Anunoby
Randle
Robinson
will win games at a very high percentage rate. There is no reason that that wont translate into the playoffs. Run that shit back next season and add to the bench. I just don't see any GM trading an Allstar, All NBA player for a role player. That's the kind of shit that gets people fired.
MS wrote:If we had the opportunity to trade OG for Bridges do you entertain it.
Yes.
If OG doesn't want to resign for whatever reason, I will try to convince him, and the Nets, about a possible s/t for Bridges.
Swishfm3 wrote:MS wrote:If we had the opportunity to trade OG for Bridges do you entertain it.Yes.
If OG doesn't want to resign for whatever reason, I will try to convince him, and the Nets, about a possible s/t for Bridges.
Knicks will over pay for OG if they have to. In 5 years the contract will look like a bargain anyway the way the salary cap is going to rise. OG will be a Knick no matter what. They aren't letting him get away and they aren't trading him for Bridges. You guys are all like geeks with 3 out of 4 of the first batman comic books.
This is Rookies prophecy, hear it now and hear it well
- OG will stay a Knick
- Randle will stay a Knick
- We will trade for a high usage role player not a star player.
Rookie has spoken 
MS wrote:If we had the opportunity to trade OG for Bridges do you entertain it.
I would not. For me, both of the players are vastly different types of defenders.
OG covers and allows Randle to be the best Beast Mode Ju that he can be.
Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I just don't see how Mikal makes sense with all the guys who have earned solid mins on this roster. I think our roster has proven capable of being elite. Don't want to see DDV or Hart dwindled down to 15 mpg. Would rather fill in the gaps with quality depth, some youngins, and maybe find a spot for an elite bench weapon. He's a 3 that would be playing the 2 and DDV and his elite quick release volume 3 shooting would be downgraded in a huge way.The only thing would make sense is swapping for Randle. Not sure I love that but could get behind it if it happened.
the min would be there. Jhart and DDV probably get cut to 26 and 22mpg ish... but this is of course not factoring injuries. and heck with OG we could probably see Randle at the 5 in spurts which we did see the brief times we had a full roster, which would open up even more minutes at the Forward spots.
I think with a guy like Mikal you could keep Randle and OG around 32mpg and really preserve them more. Even Brunson can probably go down a bit to 33/34...
Randle/OG - 32/16
OG/Jhart/Mikal - 16/26/6
Mikal/DDV - 26/22
Brunson/Deuce or Rokas - 35/13I guess. I mean I can definitely see us overcompensating on depth after what happened this year. And if there is any way to get the guys to all sacrifice minutes it's to do it for their college teammates.
Part of me thinks if you give Thibs that roster he would mostly want to play Brunson - DDV/Hart - Mikal - OG - iHart though. Like if were gonna go for this why not just trade Randle and try to get Finney Smith back in the process?
Thibs has never signalled that he doesn’t love Randle. To the contrary, Thibs has shown that he is 100% invested in developing Randle to reach his maximum potential. Randle is in his prime. A 100% bought in Randle is a force to be reckoned with and Thibs and the FO know this. Randle on his meds is a total beast.
Thibs has never signaled he doesn't love any of these guys. Just saying with all of those guys on the same roster, wouldn't be crazy for Thibs to lean towards the crazy defense and shooting. Not saying Randle wouldn't get his mins, but would Thibs start to favor the Hart/Mikal/OG lineup to finish? He's had Hart finish games since he's been here no matter who's been on the team.
There is a pretty decent sample size that says a starting 5 of
Brunson
DiVincenzo
Anunoby
Randle
Robinsonwill win games at a very high percentage rate. There is no reason that that wont translate into the playoffs. Run that shit back next season and add to the bench. I just don't see any GM trading an Allstar, All NBA player for a role player. That's the kind of shit that gets people fired.
Actually the sample size including Robinson is near non-existent. IHart was center for the run.
I don’t anyone is saying that there is a NEED to slot Bridges ahead of Devo. But that would give you positional size at the SG where the Brunson/Devo/Hart triad is relatively undersized. If you could add positional size without disrupting the culture, giving up shooting while adding an all nba caliber defender, I mean, isn’t the question only how much it costs?
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:If I might, Both of you are sort of correct. Randle is not highly coveted but I don't think he was on the block.
Being offered to utah was not quite "on the block". Being shopped is on the block to me.
If Giannis is available and wants Randle as part of a package, perhaps you do that.
Otherwise you stay with him.
As for being let go to walk in Laker land and NOLA he never achieved all star or All NBA prior to being with Thibs as a knick. He has improved about every year and was killing it this season after a rusty start.As for depth, DDV was off the bench to start the season. the Two Harts were off the bench. Thats three guys that became starters by seasons end.
You also had IQ!!!! WE had great depth!!! Next year all things being the same (It won't be) You still have one of Mitch or Isiah, Josh, Deuce and Bojan.See how things shake out!
How do you begin to substantiate this?
How do you openly covet a player on another team who is not on the market?
I'd like to know.
The Knicks FO hasn't said one thing over the course of their engagement. Does that mean they do not covet? Or should they openly slobber over Brunson and OG and let everyone else know their plans?
Perhaps I should have said more so in the past when Lakers passed on him for Lebron, and Nola let him walk.
The vibe here is as a knick many fans did not, or do not currently value him.
EwingsGlass wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I just don't see how Mikal makes sense with all the guys who have earned solid mins on this roster. I think our roster has proven capable of being elite. Don't want to see DDV or Hart dwindled down to 15 mpg. Would rather fill in the gaps with quality depth, some youngins, and maybe find a spot for an elite bench weapon. He's a 3 that would be playing the 2 and DDV and his elite quick release volume 3 shooting would be downgraded in a huge way.The only thing would make sense is swapping for Randle. Not sure I love that but could get behind it if it happened.
the min would be there. Jhart and DDV probably get cut to 26 and 22mpg ish... but this is of course not factoring injuries. and heck with OG we could probably see Randle at the 5 in spurts which we did see the brief times we had a full roster, which would open up even more minutes at the Forward spots.
I think with a guy like Mikal you could keep Randle and OG around 32mpg and really preserve them more. Even Brunson can probably go down a bit to 33/34...
Randle/OG - 32/16
OG/Jhart/Mikal - 16/26/6
Mikal/DDV - 26/22
Brunson/Deuce or Rokas - 35/13I guess. I mean I can definitely see us overcompensating on depth after what happened this year. And if there is any way to get the guys to all sacrifice minutes it's to do it for their college teammates.
Part of me thinks if you give Thibs that roster he would mostly want to play Brunson - DDV/Hart - Mikal - OG - iHart though. Like if were gonna go for this why not just trade Randle and try to get Finney Smith back in the process?
Thibs has never signalled that he doesn’t love Randle. To the contrary, Thibs has shown that he is 100% invested in developing Randle to reach his maximum potential. Randle is in his prime. A 100% bought in Randle is a force to be reckoned with and Thibs and the FO know this. Randle on his meds is a total beast.
Thibs has never signaled he doesn't love any of these guys. Just saying with all of those guys on the same roster, wouldn't be crazy for Thibs to lean towards the crazy defense and shooting. Not saying Randle wouldn't get his mins, but would Thibs start to favor the Hart/Mikal/OG lineup to finish? He's had Hart finish games since he's been here no matter who's been on the team.
There is a pretty decent sample size that says a starting 5 of
Brunson
DiVincenzo
Anunoby
Randle
Robinsonwill win games at a very high percentage rate. There is no reason that that wont translate into the playoffs. Run that shit back next season and add to the bench. I just don't see any GM trading an Allstar, All NBA player for a role player. That's the kind of shit that gets people fired.
Actually the sample size including Robinson is near non-existent. IHart was center for the run.
I don’t anyone is saying that there is a NEED to slot Bridges ahead of Devo. But that would give you positional size at the SG where the Brunson/Devo/Hart triad is relatively undersized. If you could add positional size without disrupting the culture, giving up shooting while adding an all nba caliber defender, I mean, isn’t the question only how much it costs?
Thanks good catch. I meant iHart not Robinson in the SL. Yes, the issue is the cost. I mean yeah, I would slot Bridges ahead of Devo, but not at the cost of OG or Randle.
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:If I might, Both of you are sort of correct. Randle is not highly coveted but I don't think he was on the block.
Being offered to utah was not quite "on the block". Being shopped is on the block to me.
If Giannis is available and wants Randle as part of a package, perhaps you do that.
Otherwise you stay with him.
As for being let go to walk in Laker land and NOLA he never achieved all star or All NBA prior to being with Thibs as a knick. He has improved about every year and was killing it this season after a rusty start.As for depth, DDV was off the bench to start the season. the Two Harts were off the bench. Thats three guys that became starters by seasons end.
You also had IQ!!!! WE had great depth!!! Next year all things being the same (It won't be) You still have one of Mitch or Isiah, Josh, Deuce and Bojan.See how things shake out!
How do you begin to substantiate this?
How do you openly covet a player on another team who is not on the market?
I'd like to know.
The Knicks FO hasn't said one thing over the course of their engagement. Does that mean they do not covet? Or should they openly slobber over Brunson and OG and let everyone else know their plans?
Perhaps I should have said more so in the past when Lakers passed on him for Lebron, and Nola let him walk.
The vibe here is as a knick many fans did not, or do not currently value him.
Right. LeBron and then Zion. Randle made a business decision to opt out of his Pelicans deal and double his contract with NY.
Nola didn’t let him walk, Randle made a better business decision. The rest is foretold.
Rookie wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I just don't see how Mikal makes sense with all the guys who have earned solid mins on this roster. I think our roster has proven capable of being elite. Don't want to see DDV or Hart dwindled down to 15 mpg. Would rather fill in the gaps with quality depth, some youngins, and maybe find a spot for an elite bench weapon. He's a 3 that would be playing the 2 and DDV and his elite quick release volume 3 shooting would be downgraded in a huge way.The only thing would make sense is swapping for Randle. Not sure I love that but could get behind it if it happened.
the min would be there. Jhart and DDV probably get cut to 26 and 22mpg ish... but this is of course not factoring injuries. and heck with OG we could probably see Randle at the 5 in spurts which we did see the brief times we had a full roster, which would open up even more minutes at the Forward spots.
I think with a guy like Mikal you could keep Randle and OG around 32mpg and really preserve them more. Even Brunson can probably go down a bit to 33/34...
Randle/OG - 32/16
OG/Jhart/Mikal - 16/26/6
Mikal/DDV - 26/22
Brunson/Deuce or Rokas - 35/13I guess. I mean I can definitely see us overcompensating on depth after what happened this year. And if there is any way to get the guys to all sacrifice minutes it's to do it for their college teammates.
Part of me thinks if you give Thibs that roster he would mostly want to play Brunson - DDV/Hart - Mikal - OG - iHart though. Like if were gonna go for this why not just trade Randle and try to get Finney Smith back in the process?
Thibs has never signalled that he doesn’t love Randle. To the contrary, Thibs has shown that he is 100% invested in developing Randle to reach his maximum potential. Randle is in his prime. A 100% bought in Randle is a force to be reckoned with and Thibs and the FO know this. Randle on his meds is a total beast.
Thibs has never signaled he doesn't love any of these guys. Just saying with all of those guys on the same roster, wouldn't be crazy for Thibs to lean towards the crazy defense and shooting. Not saying Randle wouldn't get his mins, but would Thibs start to favor the Hart/Mikal/OG lineup to finish? He's had Hart finish games since he's been here no matter who's been on the team.
There is a pretty decent sample size that says a starting 5 of
Brunson
DiVincenzo
Anunoby
Randle
Robinsonwill win games at a very high percentage rate. There is no reason that that wont translate into the playoffs. Run that shit back next season and add to the bench. I just don't see any GM trading an Allstar, All NBA player for a role player. That's the kind of shit that gets people fired.
Actually the sample size including Robinson is near non-existent. IHart was center for the run.
I don’t anyone is saying that there is a NEED to slot Bridges ahead of Devo. But that would give you positional size at the SG where the Brunson/Devo/Hart triad is relatively undersized. If you could add positional size without disrupting the culture, giving up shooting while adding an all nba caliber defender, I mean, isn’t the question only how much it costs?
Thanks good catch. I meant iHart not Robinson in the SL. Yes, the issue is the cost. I mean yeah, I would slot Bridges ahead of Devo, but not at the cost of OG or Randle.
Agreed. My max willingness is Deuce, Robinson and picks, but I would rather give up more picks to make it Bogs and picks.
EwingsGlass wrote:Rookie wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:Rookie wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:I just don't see how Mikal makes sense with all the guys who have earned solid mins on this roster. I think our roster has proven capable of being elite. Don't want to see DDV or Hart dwindled down to 15 mpg. Would rather fill in the gaps with quality depth, some youngins, and maybe find a spot for an elite bench weapon. He's a 3 that would be playing the 2 and DDV and his elite quick release volume 3 shooting would be downgraded in a huge way.The only thing would make sense is swapping for Randle. Not sure I love that but could get behind it if it happened.
the min would be there. Jhart and DDV probably get cut to 26 and 22mpg ish... but this is of course not factoring injuries. and heck with OG we could probably see Randle at the 5 in spurts which we did see the brief times we had a full roster, which would open up even more minutes at the Forward spots.
I think with a guy like Mikal you could keep Randle and OG around 32mpg and really preserve them more. Even Brunson can probably go down a bit to 33/34...
Randle/OG - 32/16
OG/Jhart/Mikal - 16/26/6
Mikal/DDV - 26/22
Brunson/Deuce or Rokas - 35/13I guess. I mean I can definitely see us overcompensating on depth after what happened this year. And if there is any way to get the guys to all sacrifice minutes it's to do it for their college teammates.
Part of me thinks if you give Thibs that roster he would mostly want to play Brunson - DDV/Hart - Mikal - OG - iHart though. Like if were gonna go for this why not just trade Randle and try to get Finney Smith back in the process?
Thibs has never signalled that he doesn’t love Randle. To the contrary, Thibs has shown that he is 100% invested in developing Randle to reach his maximum potential. Randle is in his prime. A 100% bought in Randle is a force to be reckoned with and Thibs and the FO know this. Randle on his meds is a total beast.
Thibs has never signaled he doesn't love any of these guys. Just saying with all of those guys on the same roster, wouldn't be crazy for Thibs to lean towards the crazy defense and shooting. Not saying Randle wouldn't get his mins, but would Thibs start to favor the Hart/Mikal/OG lineup to finish? He's had Hart finish games since he's been here no matter who's been on the team.
There is a pretty decent sample size that says a starting 5 of
Brunson
DiVincenzo
Anunoby
Randle
Robinsonwill win games at a very high percentage rate. There is no reason that that wont translate into the playoffs. Run that shit back next season and add to the bench. I just don't see any GM trading an Allstar, All NBA player for a role player. That's the kind of shit that gets people fired.
Actually the sample size including Robinson is near non-existent. IHart was center for the run.
I don’t anyone is saying that there is a NEED to slot Bridges ahead of Devo. But that would give you positional size at the SG where the Brunson/Devo/Hart triad is relatively undersized. If you could add positional size without disrupting the culture, giving up shooting while adding an all nba caliber defender, I mean, isn’t the question only how much it costs?
Thanks good catch. I meant iHart not Robinson in the SL. Yes, the issue is the cost. I mean yeah, I would slot Bridges ahead of Devo, but not at the cost of OG or Randle.
Agreed. My max willingness is Deuce, Robinson and picks, but I would rather give up more picks to make it Bogs and picks.
I think he would also work as 6th man subbing in for OG and then moving to guard when Hart comes in. If Brooklyn wanted iHart over Mitch I wouldn't say no
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:If I might, Both of you are sort of correct. Randle is not highly coveted but I don't think he was on the block.
Being offered to utah was not quite "on the block". Being shopped is on the block to me.
If Giannis is available and wants Randle as part of a package, perhaps you do that.
Otherwise you stay with him.
As for being let go to walk in Laker land and NOLA he never achieved all star or All NBA prior to being with Thibs as a knick. He has improved about every year and was killing it this season after a rusty start.As for depth, DDV was off the bench to start the season. the Two Harts were off the bench. Thats three guys that became starters by seasons end.
You also had IQ!!!! WE had great depth!!! Next year all things being the same (It won't be) You still have one of Mitch or Isiah, Josh, Deuce and Bojan.See how things shake out!
How do you begin to substantiate this?
How do you openly covet a player on another team who is not on the market?
I'd like to know.
The Knicks FO hasn't said one thing over the course of their engagement. Does that mean they do not covet? Or should they openly slobber over Brunson and OG and let everyone else know their plans?
Perhaps I should have said more so in the past when Lakers passed on him for Lebron, and Nola let him walk.
The vibe here is as a knick many fans did not, or do not currently value him.Right. LeBron and then Zion. Randle made a business decision to opt out of his Pelicans deal and double his contract with NY.
Nola didn’t let him walk, Randle made a better business decision. The rest is foretold.
It's not about the teams that let him go, it's about the tepid interest around the league when he was available.
I mean he was 22/23 year old coming off an 82 game season where he averaged 16/8/3 on 56%... and all he could get was the MLE. I remember saying that was kind of unprecedented for such a young player who produced that much to only get the MLE.
then fast forward another season and he puts up 21/9/4 on 52%... and he has to settle for a 3/63m deal, well under max in dollars and years. And again he was 23/24 years old. I mean any half decent 24 year old gets maxed these days, and someone that would put up 21/9/4 in a heartbeat. There never was a level of interest from other teams you'd expect given his age, production and durability.
So yea even if you ignore everything that has gone on since he got to NY, it's clear he was never valued as much as a typical young player putting up those numbers would be.
nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:If I might, Both of you are sort of correct. Randle is not highly coveted but I don't think he was on the block.
Being offered to utah was not quite "on the block". Being shopped is on the block to me.
If Giannis is available and wants Randle as part of a package, perhaps you do that.
Otherwise you stay with him.
As for being let go to walk in Laker land and NOLA he never achieved all star or All NBA prior to being with Thibs as a knick. He has improved about every year and was killing it this season after a rusty start.As for depth, DDV was off the bench to start the season. the Two Harts were off the bench. Thats three guys that became starters by seasons end.
You also had IQ!!!! WE had great depth!!! Next year all things being the same (It won't be) You still have one of Mitch or Isiah, Josh, Deuce and Bojan.See how things shake out!
How do you begin to substantiate this?
How do you openly covet a player on another team who is not on the market?
I'd like to know.
The Knicks FO hasn't said one thing over the course of their engagement. Does that mean they do not covet? Or should they openly slobber over Brunson and OG and let everyone else know their plans?
Perhaps I should have said more so in the past when Lakers passed on him for Lebron, and Nola let him walk.
The vibe here is as a knick many fans did not, or do not currently value him.Right. LeBron and then Zion. Randle made a business decision to opt out of his Pelicans deal and double his contract with NY.
Nola didn’t let him walk, Randle made a better business decision. The rest is foretold.
It's not about the teams that let him go, it's about the tepid interest around the league when he was available.
I mean he was 22/23 year old coming off an 82 game season where he averaged 16/8/3 on 56%... and all he could get was the MLE. I remember saying that was kind of unprecedented for such a young player who produced that much to only get the MLE.
then fast forward another season and he puts up 21/9/4 on 52%... and he has to settle for a 3/63m deal, well under max in dollars and years. And again he was 23/24 years old. I mean any half decent 24 year old gets maxed these days, and someone that would put up 21/9/4 in a heartbeat. There never was a level of interest from other teams you'd expect given his age, production and durability.
So yea even if you ignore everything that has gone on since he got to NY, it's clear he was never valued as much as a typical young player putting up those numbers would be.
I think he said he chose the NOP's deal because AD was there and he felt it was a comfortable situation. I'm not his agent, so I can't really say I know one way or the other. The year he he put up 21 and 9 was year the team was dealing with injuries. And it was the year they drafted Zion. I think the contract the Knicks gave Randle was in line with what second draft guy who was still unproven what get at the time.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:If I might, Both of you are sort of correct. Randle is not highly coveted but I don't think he was on the block.
Being offered to utah was not quite "on the block". Being shopped is on the block to me.
If Giannis is available and wants Randle as part of a package, perhaps you do that.
Otherwise you stay with him.
As for being let go to walk in Laker land and NOLA he never achieved all star or All NBA prior to being with Thibs as a knick. He has improved about every year and was killing it this season after a rusty start.As for depth, DDV was off the bench to start the season. the Two Harts were off the bench. Thats three guys that became starters by seasons end.
You also had IQ!!!! WE had great depth!!! Next year all things being the same (It won't be) You still have one of Mitch or Isiah, Josh, Deuce and Bojan.See how things shake out!
How do you begin to substantiate this?
How do you openly covet a player on another team who is not on the market?
I'd like to know.
The Knicks FO hasn't said one thing over the course of their engagement. Does that mean they do not covet? Or should they openly slobber over Brunson and OG and let everyone else know their plans?
Perhaps I should have said more so in the past when Lakers passed on him for Lebron, and Nola let him walk.
The vibe here is as a knick many fans did not, or do not currently value him.Right. LeBron and then Zion. Randle made a business decision to opt out of his Pelicans deal and double his contract with NY.
Nola didn’t let him walk, Randle made a better business decision. The rest is foretold.
Highly regarded players are traded before they are loose.
Not saying its was not circumstantial. Not too many all NBA/allstar players just floating out there.
Leon has a good eye for them!
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:I'm not advocating for trading Randle - just saying if we have this embarrassment of riches lineup with Mikal, OG, Randle, Hart, DDV - Thibs is gonna have to remove one of Mikal/OG/Randle/Hart from the closing unit. We know he loves the intangibles of Hart down the stretch of games.I think part of the reason Hart thrived so much during the playoffs is the same reason Brunson took a huge step: Randle wasn't around, and that's obviously not a negative on Randle, other guys needed to step up in his absence.
Knicks needed rebounding and intangibles cause one of their best players was missing in Randle.
Right but it does bring up a few considerations. If a 6'4" Hart could rebound nearly as well as Randle, while pushing the pace and opening up the floor more for Brunson - what are we really missing in Randle? We would definitely miss some shot making/iso ability as Randle would take the pressure off of Brunson... but you also don't get the good without the bad with Randle - with Randle in place of Hart we would also play slower, more predictabl/less movement and not as consistent defensively.
Outside of the hypothetical Boston matchup I really think the team is better/stronger without Randle on the court. Now Randle as a 6th man would make us title contenders as he could dominate the ball and it would actually help us win more. I get the notion we can't put all our eggs in Brunson's basket but my point is you can't have 2 ball dominant players lead you unless they are both strong defensively, are efficient offensively and possess great court vision. Love Bronson but the one knock on him would be is he needs to do better with finding his teammates (especially when struggling with his shooting).
Whether it's Mikal Bridges, Giannis, Lauri Markannen or another player swapped for Randle in a package - bringing in another highly efficient 2 way player is the move to make if we do seek a trade. We actually have a near perfect team IMO. I'd be fine with running it back but I think the movement and pace are the biggest differences when it comes to Randle playing vs not playing.
jskinny35 wrote:martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:I'm not advocating for trading Randle - just saying if we have this embarrassment of riches lineup with Mikal, OG, Randle, Hart, DDV - Thibs is gonna have to remove one of Mikal/OG/Randle/Hart from the closing unit. We know he loves the intangibles of Hart down the stretch of games.I think part of the reason Hart thrived so much during the playoffs is the same reason Brunson took a huge step: Randle wasn't around, and that's obviously not a negative on Randle, other guys needed to step up in his absence.
Knicks needed rebounding and intangibles cause one of their best players was missing in Randle.
Right but it does bring up a few considerations. If a 6'4" Hart could rebound nearly as well as Randle, while pushing the pace and opening up the floor more for Brunson - what are we really missing in Randle? We would definitely miss some shot making/iso ability as Randle would take the pressure off of Brunson... but you also don't get the good without the bad with Randle - with Randle in place of Hart we would also play slower, more predictabl/less movement and not as consistent defensively.
Outside of the hypothetical Boston matchup I really think the team is better/stronger without Randle on the court. Now Randle as a 6th man would make us title contenders as he could dominate the ball and it would actually help us win more. I get the notion we can't put all our eggs in Brunson's basket but my point is you can't have 2 ball dominant players lead you unless they are both strong defensively, are efficient offensively and possess great court vision. Love Bronson but the one knock on him would be is he needs to do better with finding his teammates (especially when struggling with his shooting).
Whether it's Mikal Bridges, Giannis, Lauri Markannen or another player swapped for Randle in a package - bringing in another highly efficient 2 way player is the move to make if we do seek a trade. We actually have a near perfect team IMO. I'd be fine with running it back but I think the movement and pace are the biggest differences when it comes to Randle playing vs not playing.
I think you missed the revalation that was January. Josh is nowhere near any type of replacement for Randle.
Brunson (and others) had to do historic and MVP'ish level things to make up Josh's lack of other things in replacement of what Randle normally brings.
nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:If I might, Both of you are sort of correct. Randle is not highly coveted but I don't think he was on the block.
Being offered to utah was not quite "on the block". Being shopped is on the block to me.
If Giannis is available and wants Randle as part of a package, perhaps you do that.
Otherwise you stay with him.
As for being let go to walk in Laker land and NOLA he never achieved all star or All NBA prior to being with Thibs as a knick. He has improved about every year and was killing it this season after a rusty start.As for depth, DDV was off the bench to start the season. the Two Harts were off the bench. Thats three guys that became starters by seasons end.
You also had IQ!!!! WE had great depth!!! Next year all things being the same (It won't be) You still have one of Mitch or Isiah, Josh, Deuce and Bojan.See how things shake out!
How do you begin to substantiate this?
How do you openly covet a player on another team who is not on the market?
I'd like to know.
The Knicks FO hasn't said one thing over the course of their engagement. Does that mean they do not covet? Or should they openly slobber over Brunson and OG and let everyone else know their plans?
Perhaps I should have said more so in the past when Lakers passed on him for Lebron, and Nola let him walk.
The vibe here is as a knick many fans did not, or do not currently value him.Right. LeBron and then Zion. Randle made a business decision to opt out of his Pelicans deal and double his contract with NY.
Nola didn’t let him walk, Randle made a better business decision. The rest is foretold.
It's not about the teams that let him go, it's about the tepid interest around the league when he was available.
I mean he was 22/23 year old coming off an 82 game season where he averaged 16/8/3 on 56%... and all he could get was the MLE. I remember saying that was kind of unprecedented for such a young player who produced that much to only get the MLE.
then fast forward another season and he puts up 21/9/4 on 52%... and he has to settle for a 3/63m deal, well under max in dollars and years. And again he was 23/24 years old. I mean any half decent 24 year old gets maxed these days, and someone that would put up 21/9/4 in a heartbeat. There never was a level of interest from other teams you'd expect given his age, production and durability.
So yea even if you ignore everything that has gone on since he got to NY, it's clear he was never valued as much as a typical young player putting up those numbers would be.
So what?
It has nothing to do with your point, which was also pointless to being with:
Randle has never been a guy that is highly valued around the league, otherwise we'd probably have traded him already.
You've moved the goalposts from never higly regarded to not when he was not as good as today.
The Knicks are not letting Randle walk when he is 32, that's just a dumb suggestion.
Other than the top 7 MVP guys who is?
Really, pick a star and pick them a part?
Luka? Whiney complainer and a bit doughy for a young man. His contract might not age well.
Giannis? Starting to break down? He loses some athletic ability that contract will be a bitch.
Jokic? Untouchable in his prime. He is the man.
Ant Edwards? Still young.
Kyrie? He is Kyrie.
Booker? Defense? Contract?
We can go on and on. find something about a player, his health, attitude, age and Contract.
KAT? Soft.
Kawahi? Age, contract.
Zion? Fat.
Embiid? Breaks down, Age, Contract.
Haliburton? Smiles too much.
Lebron, contract, gets coaches fired, LeGM, rejected us.
Durant, Diva, rejected us, contract age.......
Josh hart: Way inconsistent shooting, questionable handle, Passing/Turnover prone.
Randle: Fans still see spinovers, thumbs down, and isocentric history. Have to dial in January randle. Questionable defense unless called upon. Fans love to hate him. He gets you a 4th seed but when Tripled teamed vs ATL and we have no shooters he failed to single handed advance. Knick fans think 25-10 guys grow on trees.
Randle is not perfect. Not paid like a perfect player and not a guy that can carry you to a chip by himself. Few can.
Here's the thing with the Mikal trades- who's on the court at the end of games?
Got to have Brunson, got to have DDV, got to have OG (if resigned). I put those 3 at top because Brunson (obviously), a top 5 in the league 3 point shooter,and a top 5 defender. The other two spots are up for grabs. Randle/ Josh/ IHart or Robinson all could make a claim though Robinson's free throw shooting probably puts him on the outside. Point being, there doesn't seem to be a need for Mikal absent an injury.
You made the point earlier that Randle is a 1B (or 1C) and Mikal is a 2A. Randle is my favorite player and I'm not in favor of that trade- I'm just saying that's one that makes sense if you think Mikal is the missing piece.
gradyandrew wrote:Martin, lots of people here with less than 80 IQs I guess.Here's the thing with the Mikal trades- who's on the court at the end of games?
Got to have Brunson, got to have DDV, got to have OG (if resigned). I put those 3 at top because Brunson (obviously), a top 5 in the league 3 point shooter,and a top 5 defender. The other two spots are up for grabs. Randle/ Josh/ IHart or Robinson all could make a claim though Robinson's free throw shooting probably puts him on the outside. Point being, there doesn't seem to be a need for Mikal absent an injury.
You made the point earlier that Randle is a 1B (or 1C) and Mikal is a 2A. Randle is my favorite player and I'm not in favor of that trade- I'm just saying that's one that makes sense if you think Mikal is the missing piece.
I agree with you up to a point. Bridges definitely plays a head of Donte in that scenario.Is Bridges the centerpiece of a title contender? No, but he is three-level scorer and threat that must be accounted for no matter where he is on the court. He's more flexible defensively and he has proven that he's a clutch shooter. Bridges starts on any roster in this league. And he makes around the same amount of money as Bogdonvic. My only real concern is the cost to bring him. The Nets aren't doing us any favors and I don't think I have the stomach to g
I've up that many assets.