Knicks · Knicks iHart watch and next moves? update: OKC offers $87M for 3 years (page 4)

Rookie wrote:Has a one done the math if iHart leaves? Would we still have the taxpayer 5M exception? If so we keep Mitch, Deuce and sign a FA?

I’m sure someone has!

I think the big move would be Prescious and I would assume we would keep him if iHart leaves, even if it is just to hold his salary slot for 1 year.

But - the Knicks can make the moves to retain iHart, they haven’t yet because they don’t know what he wants- that is what I am reading now with the situation.

franco12 wrote:

Rookie wrote:Has a one done the math if iHart leaves? Would we still have the taxpayer 5M exception? If so we keep Mitch, Deuce and sign a FA?

I’m sure someone has!

I think the big move would be Prescious and I would assume we would keep him if iHart leaves, even if it is just to hold his salary slot for 1 year.

But - the Knicks can make the moves to retain iHart, they haven’t yet because they don’t know what he wants- that is what I am reading now with the situation.

The math I’ve seen is it’s going to be really tight to have the full taxpayers MLE.

If Hartenstein comes back the Knicks are at such an advantage because they can move Mitch to a third team and not be hard capped until the second apron and have the full Taypayers exception plus the ability to sign guys willing to take the minimum that are more experienced vets and carry a higher minimum contract value.

If Hartenstein leaves which is what we have to assume and you can’t somehow lump in Achiuwa into the deal via sign and trade it’s going to be really close with having the full TMLE and it depends on the minimum guys

Brunson, Randle, OG, Bridges, Mitch, Donte, Hart, Deuce, Sims, Jeffries, and Dadiet gives you 11 guys with about 7M left under the first apron. But you have 3 spots to fill still. Kolek and McCullar at the second round exception each alone only leaves around 4M of the TMLE. In order words it’s not good.

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Rookie wrote:Has a one done the math if iHart leaves? Would we still have the taxpayer 5M exception? If so we keep Mitch, Deuce and sign a FA?

I’m sure someone has!

I think the big move would be Prescious and I would assume we would keep him if iHart leaves, even if it is just to hold his salary slot for 1 year.

But - the Knicks can make the moves to retain iHart, they haven’t yet because they don’t know what he wants- that is what I am reading now with the situation.

The math I’ve seen is it’s going to be really tight to have the full taxpayers MLE.

If Hartenstein comes back the Knicks are at such an advantage because they can move Mitch to a third team and not be hard capped until the second apron and have the full Taypayers exception plus the ability to sign guys willing to take the minimum that are more experienced vets and carry a higher minimum contract value.

If Hartenstein leaves which is what we have to assume and you can’t somehow lump in Achiuwa into the deal via sign and trade it’s going to be really close with having the full TMLE and it depends on the minimum guys

Brunson, Randle, OG, Bridges, Mitch, Donte, Hart, Deuce, Sims, Jeffries, and Dadiet gives you 11 guys with about 7M left under the first apron. But you have 3 spots to fill still. Kolek and McCullar at the second round exception each alone only leaves around 4M of the TMLE. In order words it’s not good.

Wow, I didn't even think it was possible to retain I-Hart and have the full MLE. Thanks for sharing. That would be a homerun

the Full taxpayer MLE and the full non-taxpayer MLE are different amounts of money - to be clear. About 5mm per vs 12mm per.

Valanciunas, Plumlee, Theis, Drummond, Bitadze, Zeller and Bamba are some of the FA Centers.

EwingPSD wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Rookie wrote:Has a one done the math if iHart leaves? Would we still have the taxpayer 5M exception? If so we keep Mitch, Deuce and sign a FA?

I’m sure someone has!

I think the big move would be Prescious and I would assume we would keep him if iHart leaves, even if it is just to hold his salary slot for 1 year.

But - the Knicks can make the moves to retain iHart, they haven’t yet because they don’t know what he wants- that is what I am reading now with the situation.

The math I’ve seen is it’s going to be really tight to have the full taxpayers MLE.

If Hartenstein comes back the Knicks are at such an advantage because they can move Mitch to a third team and not be hard capped until the second apron and have the full Taypayers exception plus the ability to sign guys willing to take the minimum that are more experienced vets and carry a higher minimum contract value.

If Hartenstein leaves which is what we have to assume and you can’t somehow lump in Achiuwa into the deal via sign and trade it’s going to be really close with having the full TMLE and it depends on the minimum guys

Brunson, Randle, OG, Bridges, Mitch, Donte, Hart, Deuce, Sims, Jeffries, and Dadiet gives you 11 guys with about 7M left under the first apron. But you have 3 spots to fill still. Kolek and McCullar at the second round exception each alone only leaves around 4M of the TMLE. In order words it’s not good.

Wow, I didn't even think it was possible to retain I-Hart and have the full MLE. Thanks for sharing. That would be a homerun

Would have to trade Mitch for that though

newyorknewyork wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Rookie wrote:Has a one done the math if iHart leaves? Would we still have the taxpayer 5M exception? If so we keep Mitch, Deuce and sign a FA?

I’m sure someone has!

I think the big move would be Prescious and I would assume we would keep him if iHart leaves, even if it is just to hold his salary slot for 1 year.

But - the Knicks can make the moves to retain iHart, they haven’t yet because they don’t know what he wants- that is what I am reading now with the situation.

The math I’ve seen is it’s going to be really tight to have the full taxpayers MLE.

If Hartenstein comes back the Knicks are at such an advantage because they can move Mitch to a third team and not be hard capped until the second apron and have the full Taypayers exception plus the ability to sign guys willing to take the minimum that are more experienced vets and carry a higher minimum contract value.

If Hartenstein leaves which is what we have to assume and you can’t somehow lump in Achiuwa into the deal via sign and trade it’s going to be really close with having the full TMLE and it depends on the minimum guys

Brunson, Randle, OG, Bridges, Mitch, Donte, Hart, Deuce, Sims, Jeffries, and Dadiet gives you 11 guys with about 7M left under the first apron. But you have 3 spots to fill still. Kolek and McCullar at the second round exception each alone only leaves around 4M of the TMLE. In order words it’s not good.

Wow, I didn't even think it was possible to retain I-Hart and have the full MLE. Thanks for sharing. That would be a homerun

Would have to trade Mitch for that though

I'd prefer not to lose either but losing Mitch and being able to add a 13 million dollar player after all we've already done is a great off season

Good stuff stating around 18 minute mark, recorded after first round and before second. Addresses why only 1 first was picked and iHart apron and cap situations.

Knicks seem to be in reach to offer iHart his ~$17m starting number by trimming around the Jericho and Precious contracts. If not, they should have enough for someone like Goga or Drew Eubanks in the $5m mark.

SergioNYK wrote:Valanciunas, Plumlee, Theis, Drummond, Bitadze, Zeller and Bamba are some of the FA Centers.

these would be nice plan B IMO

I need to listen to the Fred Katz podcast. Apparently he found a loophole to make the Bridges trade and avoid getting hard capped at the first apron. If there’s a way to do that without moving Mitch or deuce then that’s a nice breakthru to give us some breathing room (particularly if Hartenstein doesn’t come back. )

Knixkik wrote:I need to listen to the Fred Katz podcast. Apparently he found a loophole to make the Bridges trade and avoid getting hard capped at the first apron. If there’s a way to do that without moving Mitch or deuce then that’s a nice breakthru to give us some breathing room (particularly if Hartenstein doesn’t come back. )

Someone wrote a recap on Reddit. Basically, it's signing one of the second rounders to the exception and packaging the with Daquan Jeffries in the deal.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I need to listen to the Fred Katz podcast. Apparently he found a loophole to make the Bridges trade and avoid getting hard capped at the first apron. If there’s a way to do that without moving Mitch or deuce then that’s a nice breakthru to give us some breathing room (particularly if Hartenstein doesn’t come back. )

Someone wrote a recap on Reddit. Basically, it's signing one of the second rounders to the exception and packaging the with Daquan Jeffries in the deal.

Thanks

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

Knicks need to add about $4.3M to the Bridges deal to avoid the hard cap at the 1st apron.
So they give the 2nd round exception, $1.86M, to one of their new 2nd round draft picks.
Add that 2nd rounder and Daquan Jeffries at $2.5M.
Boom, $4.33M.
If the Nets don’t want to pay a 2nd rounder more than the minimum, the difference between the minimum and the exception over 2 years is $1.3M. The Knicks picked up $1.5M in cash in the draft, so they can include that.

If that’s in the Bridges trade, the hard cap is the 2nd apron.

Then they can offer Isaiah 4/72 or the tax-payer mid-level exception.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I need to listen to the Fred Katz podcast. Apparently he found a loophole to make the Bridges trade and avoid getting hard capped at the first apron. If there’s a way to do that without moving Mitch or deuce then that’s a nice breakthru to give us some breathing room (particularly if Hartenstein doesn’t come back. )

Someone wrote a recap on Reddit. Basically, it's signing one of the second rounders to the exception and packaging the with Daquan Jeffries in the deal.

Thanks

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

Knicks need to add about $4.3M to the Bridges deal to avoid the hard cap at the 1st apron.
So they give the 2nd round exception, $1.86M, to one of their new 2nd round draft picks.
Add that 2nd rounder and Daquan Jeffries at $2.5M.
Boom, $4.33M.
If the Nets don’t want to pay a 2nd rounder more than the minimum, the difference between the minimum and the exception over 2 years is $1.3M. The Knicks picked up $1.5M in cash in the draft, so they can include that.

If that’s in the Bridges trade, the hard cap is the 2nd apron.

Then they can offer Isaiah 4/72 or the tax-payer mid-level exception.

There it is. Makes total sense. I didn’t know you could sign and trade these second round guys. I’m guessing kolek is a keeper but one of the other guys is put into the deal.

Genius. Stuff like this is why I never for a second panicked. Twitter and other places were going crazy but I knew cap god would find a way. We are so close that there had to be a way to get over the hump.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I need to listen to the Fred Katz podcast. Apparently he found a loophole to make the Bridges trade and avoid getting hard capped at the first apron. If there’s a way to do that without moving Mitch or deuce then that’s a nice breakthru to give us some breathing room (particularly if Hartenstein doesn’t come back. )

Someone wrote a recap on Reddit. Basically, it's signing one of the second rounders to the exception and packaging the with Daquan Jeffries in the deal.

Thanks

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

Knicks need to add about $4.3M to the Bridges deal to avoid the hard cap at the 1st apron.
So they give the 2nd round exception, $1.86M, to one of their new 2nd round draft picks.
Add that 2nd rounder and Daquan Jeffries at $2.5M.
Boom, $4.33M.
If the Nets don’t want to pay a 2nd rounder more than the minimum, the difference between the minimum and the exception over 2 years is $1.3M. The Knicks picked up $1.5M in cash in the draft, so they can include that.

If that’s in the Bridges trade, the hard cap is the 2nd apron.

Then they can offer Isaiah 4/72 or the tax-payer mid-level exception.

There it is. Makes total sense. I didn’t know you could sign and trade these second round guys. I’m guessing kolek is a keeper but one of the other guys is put into the deal.

And if Brooklyn balks at accepting those 2 new players, it’s where a situation in the Obi deal comes to fruition: Leon has options to call up a good buddy in Pacer-land who he helped deliver a bench production player for little exchange and redirect those 2 players with SanAntonio assistant coach draft pick as the value that goes to one of the teams.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I need to listen to the Fred Katz podcast. Apparently he found a loophole to make the Bridges trade and avoid getting hard capped at the first apron. If there’s a way to do that without moving Mitch or deuce then that’s a nice breakthru to give us some breathing room (particularly if Hartenstein doesn’t come back. )

Someone wrote a recap on Reddit. Basically, it's signing one of the second rounders to the exception and packaging the with Daquan Jeffries in the deal.

Thanks

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

Knicks need to add about $4.3M to the Bridges deal to avoid the hard cap at the 1st apron.
So they give the 2nd round exception, $1.86M, to one of their new 2nd round draft picks.
Add that 2nd rounder and Daquan Jeffries at $2.5M.
Boom, $4.33M.
If the Nets don’t want to pay a 2nd rounder more than the minimum, the difference between the minimum and the exception over 2 years is $1.3M. The Knicks picked up $1.5M in cash in the draft, so they can include that.

If that’s in the Bridges trade, the hard cap is the 2nd apron.

Then they can offer Isaiah 4/72 or the tax-payer mid-level exception.

There it is. Makes total sense. I didn’t know you could sign and trade these second round guys. I’m guessing kolek is a keeper but one of the other guys is put into the deal.

And if Brooklyn balks at accepting those 2 new players, it’s where a situation in the Obi deal comes to fruition: Leon has options to call up a good buddy in Pacer-land who he helped deliver a bench production player for little exchange and redirect those 2 players with SanAntonio assistant coach draft pick as the value that goes to one of the teams.

Exactly. Knicks can add any third team.

I listened to the pod and the theory makes sense. The only downfall is the deal wouldn’t be complete until a month after the second round guys signed their contracts. So after Aug 1. This wasn’t discussed but to me it makes sense that if a player signs a second round exception contract fairly quickly and doesn’t play in summer league it probably means he’s getting moved as part of this deal. And maybe he does still play in summer league for the Knicks and the nets (or a third team) is fine with that because they want him to play summer league. But this is the interesting piece to this. Maybe McCullar signs with us and doesn’t play because of the knee but meanwhile he’s actually part of this deal. Knicks can add 1.5M to the deal and a future second round pick if they need to. It’s a really easy way to create the extra room and not be hard capped at the first apron.

So they either resign Hartenstein and can keep Mitch too, or if Hartenstein leaves they will have 5.5M to sign a new backup plus still have plenty of room under the second apron to resign Achiuwa and maybe even Burks if they want.

Another thing to note is the Knicks came away with 4 players from this draft. That’s a lot for a team that doesn’t traditionally carry a lot of rookies. It makes sense to replenish the prospect pool in westchester especially with the 2-way contract. But maybe they just wanted options for trade fillers or to simply fill out the roster. My guess is Dadiet is on the roster and plays all of his time in westchester. Kolek is on the active roster and has legit value on the current roster as a 3rd string PG. As for McCullar and Hukporti they are flexible pieces for reasons we have just discussed.

Knixkik wrote:I listened to the pod and the theory makes sense. The only downfall is the deal wouldn’t be complete until a month after the second round guys signed their contracts. So after Aug 1. This wasn’t discussed but to me it makes sense that if a player signs a second round exception contract fairly quickly and doesn’t play in summer league it probably means he’s getting moved as part of this deal. And maybe he does still play in summer league for the Knicks and the nets (or a third team) is fine with that because they want him to play summer league. But this is the interesting piece to this. Maybe McCullar signs with us and doesn’t play because of the knee but meanwhile he’s actually part of this deal. Knicks can add 1.5M to the deal and a future second round pick if they need to. It’s a really easy way to create the extra room and not be hard capped at the first apron.

So they either resign Hartenstein and can keep Mitch too, or if Hartenstein leaves they will have 5.5M to sign a new backup plus still have plenty of room under the second apron to resign Achiuwa and maybe even Burks if they want.

Fairly good options, thanks

Knixkik wrote:Another thing to note is the Knicks came away with 4 players from this draft. That’s a lot for a team that doesn’t traditionally carry a lot of rookies. It makes sense to replenish the prospect pool in westchester especially with the 2-way contract. But maybe they just wanted options for trade fillers or to simply fill out the roster. My guess is Dadiet is on the roster and plays all of his time in westchester. Kolek is on the active roster and has legit value on the current roster as a 3rd string PG. As for McCullar and Hukporti they are flexible pieces for reasons we have just discussed.

I think all of this could be true and I hope it is.

It is wild to me that the Knicks are possibly taking 2 forks forward at same time: 1) did their best to fortify end of rotation for this upcoming season and championship push and 2) possibly starting a well thought out GLeague dev team that’ll feature on 18yo with high ceiling.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Another thing to note is the Knicks came away with 4 players from this draft. That’s a lot for a team that doesn’t traditionally carry a lot of rookies. It makes sense to replenish the prospect pool in westchester especially with the 2-way contract. But maybe they just wanted options for trade fillers or to simply fill out the roster. My guess is Dadiet is on the roster and plays all of his time in westchester. Kolek is on the active roster and has legit value on the current roster as a 3rd string PG. As for McCullar and Hukporti they are flexible pieces for reasons we have just discussed.

I think all of this could be true and I hope it is.

It is wild to me that the Knicks are possibly taking 2 forks forward at same time: 1) did their best to fortify end of rotation for this upcoming season and championship push and 2) possibly starting a well thought out GLeague dev team that’ll feature on 18yo with high ceiling.

The Dadiet pick is so interesting because it’s never a player any of us had on the bingo card but if the Knicks honestly took him in the first round simply because they see a high upside prospect and are committed to keeping him on the active roster that is such a revelation. This is the one thing this front office has lacked; real upside prospects in the pipeline. They always lean towards nba ready when they commit to the draft. This front office has been pretty much perfect except for this one area and a commitment to it is really impressive.