Knicks · Just bring back Achiuwa (7/30 update: he is back) (page 5)

KnickDanger wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Has Randle ever been effectively used at the 5? I don’t recall it but someone please correct me if you remember a time.

Good question, though I am not certain it is the correct one.

In this concept, defense is fluid. You have two elite defenders in OG Anunoby and Mikal Bridges who will inevitably pick up the first and second best offensive players on the opposing team, regardless of position. Their versatility makes this possible.

On offense, you are likely to see a 4-1 motion offense where the Center (Randle) would be tasked with moving to different portion of the box, bodying the other side to create space for a drive and being the fulcrum of the passing offense - use his gravity to collapse the defense and find any of the other 4 37%+ 3 point shooters on the court.

You'd give up the huge positional size advantage the Knicks have on defense with a lineup of Brunson/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle/Robinson, but you would have perhaps one of the more elite offenses in Brunson/DDV/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle.

Ideally, it would compare with the Death Lineup of Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Green that won 73 games. That team still had better positional size at each slot and more HoF credentials, so I am not trying to overstate its effectiveness. But the modeling would be similar, with Anunoby and Bridge's defensive versatility allowing the Knicks to match Iggy and Green's versatility on that squad.

The highlight of that squad has Curry, Durant and Thompson all shooting well over 40% from three, a feat the Knicks probably can't match. But I think Randle is a more prominent offensive player than Green and would do better in the post than Green. Assuming he can have the mental fortitude to pass when needed and not force plays, it would be a monster lineup that would force a lot of mismatches across the league. It would spread the floor to allow Brunson and Bridges more room to work, both having pretty efficient mid-range games. The combined offensive output potentially making up for the Curry and Durant's HOF credentials, this squad doesn't really have any 'duds' on offense - Dray and Iggy were pretty inefficient, but minimized in their offensive roles.

Without a better passing big, it feels like the best we can do with the personnel we have. Not to belittle Robinson, but his inclusion bolsters the defense, but is a bit of a drag on the offense.

Appreciate your insights. That scenario would be very cool.

I suppose my apprehension is simply we haven’t employed Randle effectively at the 5 before, for whatever reasons. But it’s a different team and vibe now. I’d be all for giving it an honest shot.

Yeah, I don't know I would go into the season as our only option since it is clearly unproven. I still think we need at least a backup C. Sims is next man up. Or Achiuwa. But we will see.

MS wrote:It’s the east.

No reason we can’t go with Julius at the back up 5. We have two unbelievable defenders and spacing everywhere, that is probably the lack of urgency here. We need hart on the floor as much as possible and Simms can give you a couple of minutes.

Agree. Julius getting some minutes at the 5 with OG and/or Mikal at 4 we’ll be fine. I actually kinda like the idea of Randle as a stretch 5

After surgery on his shoulder, I’d be fine with Julius not playing the 5.

Precious with the high minded response to Arenas’ Sudan nonsense. Apparently a real good guy. I don’t need him to be to bring him back but another high character player is a positive.

Man - the non-taxpayer MLE trade exception availability has really killed the market for players like Precious would be somewhere in between the taxpayer/non-taxpayer value on his contract. I can't believe he is still sitting there waiting for a deal. Would assume he has a solid promise from the Knicks

VDesai wrote:Man - the non-taxpayer MLE trade exception availability has really killed the market for players like Precious would be somewhere in between the taxpayer/non-taxpayer value on his contract. I can't believe he is still sitting there waiting for a deal. Would assume he has a solid promise from the Knicks

Yeah I assume the promise is he’s got a contract coming from the Knicks either way. Either just resigning him or needing to give him a good contract to match another player via sign and trade.

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martin wrote:

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Because the Knicks are above the first apron, they are not allowed to acquire more salary than they send out in a trade. Thus, if they handed Achiuwa the minimum, it would limit the number of players the team could deal him for during the season. But if they gave him in the realm of $7 million in 2024-25 salary, that would open up their options.

This concept will become increasingly common in the NBA. People in front offices around the league are already referring to the intentional overpay as “the human trade exception.” The Philadelphia 76ers did it by re-signing Kenyon Martin Jr. The Phoenix Suns did it by bringing back Josh Okogie. The move will grow in popularity with teams above the first or second apron.

Re-signing Achiuwa to a salary in this range would keep the Knicks approximately $6.5 million below the $188.9 million second apron, a payroll threshold they cannot surpass.

It would give them enough room to use the taxpayer midlevel exception, which allows over-the-cap teams to sign players for up to $5 million in 2024-25 salary. It’s a tool organizations rarely use now but could be beneficial, even if it meant bringing in someone who would live outside New York’s rotation.

Most of them are out for a concert, Leon is still connecting with teams about a C while going out to a concert

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Good summary of the Fred Katz situation summary. Right said Fred said differently

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2024/...

From the folks who are posting while they are toasting:

Of course, the easiest solution would be to re-sign free agent Precious Achiuwa. He’s unrestricted and he can sign with whomever he wants to, for whatever he’s offered and willing to take. That said, the expectation—growing with each passing day he remains on the loose—has always been for him and the Knicks to find common ground and reunite in Manhattan at some point before the start of the regular season.

This extraordinary delay in reaching a deal, however, might have been kinda agreed to between both parties.

“Because of quirks in the new collective bargaining agreement, re-signing Achiuwa to an above-market contract, even if he couldn’t score more than a minimum salary at the moment, could give the Knicks more trade options come February’s deadline.

“Because the Knicks are above the first apron, they are not allowed to acquire more salary than they send out in a trade. Thus, if they handed Achiuwa the minimum, it would limit the number of players the team could deal him for during the season. But if they gave him in the realm of $7 million in 2024-25 salary, that would open up their options.

This concept will become increasingly common in the NBA. People in front offices around the league are already referring to the intentional overpay as “the human trade exception.” The move will grow in popularity with teams above the first or second apron.” — The Athletic’s Fred Katz

As Katz points out, the Knicks gave up most of their draft assets in the trade for Mikal Bridges. As things stand, New York only has a few second-round picks, a first-round belonging to the Pistons and heavily protected (1-13) in 2025, and another 2025-protected (1-10) first-rounder from Washington.

In other words, the Knicks will need to either 1) bring Achiuwa back on a minimum and run with the former Rap man for the full season, 2) trade a whole lot of second-round picks and one/two high-salaried players ( perhaps Julius Randle, perhaps Mitchell Robinson) to land the mythical “final piece,” or 3) overpay for Achiuwa and wait for the right time to swing a deal including Achiuwa and a minimum-salary player to land a reasonably good player before the trade deadline.

Among those players potentially available between the end of January and mid-February (listed by Katz):

Richaun Holmes ($12.6 million)
Robert Williams III ($12.4 million)
Wendell Carter Jr. ($12 million)
Ivica Zubac ($11.7 million)
Nick Richards ($5 million)
Day’Ron Sharpe ($4 million)

If you’re worried by the lack of activity registered in New York’s HQ, Katz has the perfect explanation for you.

“Pair Achiuwa with whomever they sign for the midlevel exception, and the Knicks could execute a deadline deal that would trade away zero players from their top eight and bring back someone who makes up to $12 million-ish. Because they don’t have the salaries for it at the moment, the Knicks couldn’t build a trade like that today.” — The Athletic’s Fred Katz.

That will be solved with Achiuwa inked to a larger-than-market-value deal and some mid-salary player added to the package so the Knicks can land someone playable instead of one of the still-available free agents out there, which are either cooked (JaVale McGee, Tristan Thompson), transitioning into solid acting careers (Boban Marjanovic), Disney Connoisseurs (Robin Lopez), or Serbia-bound slendermen (Aleksej Pokusevski).

martin wrote:Good summary of the Fred Katz situation summary. Right said Fred said differently

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2024/...

From the folks who are posting while they are toasting:

Of course, the easiest solution would be to re-sign free agent Precious Achiuwa. He’s unrestricted and he can sign with whomever he wants to, for whatever he’s offered and willing to take. That said, the expectation—growing with each passing day he remains on the loose—has always been for him and the Knicks to find common ground and reunite in Manhattan at some point before the start of the regular season.

This extraordinary delay in reaching a deal, however, might have been kinda agreed to between both parties.

“Because of quirks in the new collective bargaining agreement, re-signing Achiuwa to an above-market contract, even if he couldn’t score more than a minimum salary at the moment, could give the Knicks more trade options come February’s deadline.

“Because the Knicks are above the first apron, they are not allowed to acquire more salary than they send out in a trade. Thus, if they handed Achiuwa the minimum, it would limit the number of players the team could deal him for during the season. But if they gave him in the realm of $7 million in 2024-25 salary, that would open up their options.

This concept will become increasingly common in the NBA. People in front offices around the league are already referring to the intentional overpay as “the human trade exception.” The move will grow in popularity with teams above the first or second apron.” — The Athletic’s Fred Katz

As Katz points out, the Knicks gave up most of their draft assets in the trade for Mikal Bridges. As things stand, New York only has a few second-round picks, a first-round belonging to the Pistons and heavily protected (1-13) in 2025, and another 2025-protected (1-10) first-rounder from Washington.

In other words, the Knicks will need to either 1) bring Achiuwa back on a minimum and run with the former Rap man for the full season, 2) trade a whole lot of second-round picks and one/two high-salaried players ( perhaps Julius Randle, perhaps Mitchell Robinson) to land the mythical “final piece,” or 3) overpay for Achiuwa and wait for the right time to swing a deal including Achiuwa and a minimum-salary player to land a reasonably good player before the trade deadline.

Among those players potentially available between the end of January and mid-February (listed by Katz):

Richaun Holmes ($12.6 million)
Robert Williams III ($12.4 million)
Wendell Carter Jr. ($12 million)
Ivica Zubac ($11.7 million)
Nick Richards ($5 million)
Day’Ron Sharpe ($4 million)

If you’re worried by the lack of activity registered in New York’s HQ, Katz has the perfect explanation for you.

“Pair Achiuwa with whomever they sign for the midlevel exception, and the Knicks could execute a deadline deal that would trade away zero players from their top eight and bring back someone who makes up to $12 million-ish. Because they don’t have the salaries for it at the moment, the Knicks couldn’t build a trade like that today.” — The Athletic’s Fred Katz.

That will be solved with Achiuwa inked to a larger-than-market-value deal and some mid-salary player added to the package so the Knicks can land someone playable instead of one of the still-available free agents out there, which are either cooked (JaVale McGee, Tristan Thompson), transitioning into solid acting careers (Boban Marjanovic), Disney Connoisseurs (Robin Lopez), or Serbia-bound slendermen (Aleksej Pokusevski).

It not perfect, but we will be a very good team!

Not that it wasn't obvious before but it behooves the Knicks to pay Precious more than he could get in free agency.

Achiuwa just gotta sit back and relax and he knows the deal is coming.

martin wrote:Not that it wasn't obvious before but it behooves the Knicks to pay Precious more than he could get in free agency.

Achiuwa just gotta sit back and relax and he knows the deal is coming.

Correct and I assume part of that could include Precious understanding the bigger deal could result in him playing somewhere else.

Unless Knicks have also told him he will be back here - it’s a very interesting situation.

Me personally- I’m kind of hoping we are shooting for a more skilled starting caliber center (maybe using Mitch) and we retain Precious as our primary backup 4/5.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Not that it wasn't obvious before but it behooves the Knicks to pay Precious more than he could get in free agency.

Achiuwa just gotta sit back and relax and he knows the deal is coming.

Correct and I assume part of that could include Precious understanding the bigger deal could result in him playing somewhere else.

Unless Knicks have also told him he will be back here - it’s a very interesting situation.

Me personally- I’m kind of hoping we are shooting for a more skilled starting caliber center (maybe using Mitch) and we retain Precious as our primary backup 4/5.

I really liked Precious’ energy. He has a lot of athleticism, length and motor. His shot and other skills could use some development. But I totally see him as having more upside than Montrezl Harrell.

Rather than overpay, I’d rather lock him up long term reasonably and see if we can unlock that potential.

I’m a fan of his continued upside and love his attitude.

EwingsGlass wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Not that it wasn't obvious before but it behooves the Knicks to pay Precious more than he could get in free agency.

Achiuwa just gotta sit back and relax and he knows the deal is coming.

Correct and I assume part of that could include Precious understanding the bigger deal could result in him playing somewhere else.

Unless Knicks have also told him he will be back here - it’s a very interesting situation.

Me personally- I’m kind of hoping we are shooting for a more skilled starting caliber center (maybe using Mitch) and we retain Precious as our primary backup 4/5.

I really liked Precious’ energy. He has a lot of athleticism, length and motor. His shot and other skills could use some development. But I totally see him as having more upside than Montrezl Harrell.

Rather than overpay, I’d rather lock him up long term reasonably and see if we can unlock that potential.

I’m a fan of his continued upside and love his attitude.

Didn't follow him in Toronto...I was stunned by his shot-blocking ability, and, as usual, underwhelmed by his ability to score in the post.

I've said this about Mitch before, and the same is true for Sims and Precious (I'll blame Toronto for him)...The inability of these guys to develop at least 2, or even 1, go to move in the post drives me crazy.

Precious would've been signed already if he had a jump hook or some short jumpers using the glass.

Very frustrating.

Totally makes sense for the Knicks to sign Precious to a 1 yr 7-8mm deal - more than his open market value, but very tradeable. At this point, my only question is why the wait. The market is dried out. To me the only open question is what happens with Markannen and Ingram and if those dominoes falling have anything bearing on the Knicks getting a Kessler or Richards.

VDesai wrote:Totally makes sense for the Knicks to sign Precious to a 1 yr 7-8mm deal - more than his open market value, but very tradeable. At this point, my only question is why the wait. The market is dried out. To me the only open question is what happens with Markannen and Ingram and if those dominoes falling have anything bearing on the Knicks getting a Kessler or Richards.

Is there a sign and trade opportunity within a bigger package?
Why the wait? I suppose Leon and Co. are trying different things and timing does matter. waiting creates options.

Nalod wrote:

VDesai wrote:Totally makes sense for the Knicks to sign Precious to a 1 yr 7-8mm deal - more than his open market value, but very tradeable. At this point, my only question is why the wait. The market is dried out. To me the only open question is what happens with Markannen and Ingram and if those dominoes falling have anything bearing on the Knicks getting a Kessler or Richards.

Is there a sign and trade opportunity within a bigger package?
Why the wait? I suppose Leon and Co. are trying different things and timing does matter. waiting creates options.

There is always possibility of aggregating Precious and a vet contract or another contract or the mini MLE.

Players who have been recently signed also have to wait 1-6 months depending on what they signed, so it'll open up more players to return.

Everyone waiting on Lauri and Utah/Detroit as only teams with cap space.

Like that.

Some of the best ball we played all year included Precious manning the backup 5 spot. He's definitely a serviceable 5. I honestly think we are looking for an upgrade more because of Mitch's unreliability moreso than Precious' ability to be a quality backup 5. We pretty much need a guy like Hartenstein with legit starter potential. If we just needed a 15-20 mpg backup to a reliable starting C then Precious would be fine. But I think we are actually looking for a starter.

Whatever happened to Montrez Harrell? He's only 30.

SergioNYK wrote:Whatever happened to Montrez Harrell? He's only 30.

Post up centers who don't play good defense have nearly been completely phased out of the league.