Knicks · Just bring back Achiuwa (7/30 update: he is back) (page 4)
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5645318...
Achiuwa updateWeeks into free agency, Achiuwa is lingering in the market. At this point, remaining unsigned could be to both his and the Knicks’ advantage.
The Knicks remain open to bringing back Achiuwa, who they acquired as part of the December trade that brought OG Anunoby to New York. And yet, for now, they are best leaving Achiuwa unsigned — and Achiuwa can maximize his market by waiting.
The NBA’s economy has changed under this new collective bargaining agreement. The middle class is getting hit. Zero free agents this summer have received the non-taxpayer midlevel exception for multiple seasons. De’Anthony Melton is the only person to receive it in full, but he got only one year with the Golden State Warriors. Others have had to take less. Many organizations haven’t used their midlevel, whether the non-taxpayer or the taxpayer, at all.
The non-taxpayer midlevel exception, which allows over-the-cap teams to sign players to contracts with a starting salary of up to $12.9 million, also can be used as a trade exception now, which gives front offices an excuse to hold onto it if they don’t love what they see. Solid role players are getting squeezed.
Tyus Jones, who is sneakily coming off his best-ever season with the Washington Wizards, remains unsigned. Caleb Martin reportedly turned down a five-year, $65 million extension to test free agency and received only half of that guaranteed money over four years. Gary Trent Jr., a consistent scorer and shooter, settled for a minimum contract with the Milwaukee Bucks earlier this week.
That brings us back to Achiuwa, and why he may still be around.
If the offers are not attractive, maybe at the minimum or barely above, Achiuwa could be best off waiting to see what the Knicks do. And the Knicks could benefit from patience, too.
Here’s why:
Beginning this season, trades are far more difficult to make, especially for a team like the Knicks, who are above the first apron, a payroll threshold that limits an organization’s resources if it crests over it. One of the most punitive first-apron restrictions? The Knicks are not allowed to take back more salary than they send out in a trade.
This is where hypothetical trades become even more confusing: No team above the first apron can realistically make a trade with another that also is above the first apron. Unless they are dealing one player for another who makes the same salary, all the way down to the cent, one team will be absorbing more dollars than the other.
The Knicks could still use a backup center. A trade could entice them, but they need the tools to make it happen. Achiuwa would come in handy if they’re negotiating with a team also above the first apron.
Let’s say the Knicks agree to a trade with Team A that would send (I’m making up numbers to keep the math simple) $10 million in salaries to Team A and $14 million in salary to the Knicks. That means New York is adding $4 million to the deal. Achiuwa could remedy that. All the Knicks and Team A have to do is find a third team, someone either with cap room or an exception to absorb the big man, then agree to a sign-and-trade with Achiuwa that pays him more than $4 million.
The final version of the trade would look like this:
The Knicks send out $10 million of salaries on the roster and, say, a $5 million salary for Achiuwa in a sign-and-trade deal. They bring back $14 million and thus are in the clear.
Team A sends out $14 million and takes back $10 million, which puts it in the clear, as well.
Team B, which must be below the first apron, receives Achiuwa in a sign-and-trade and possibly lands a draft pick as a thank-you for facilitating the deal.
It’s why both sides might as well wait. In the end, the Knicks can execute a trade they otherwise couldn’t and Achiuwa receives more than a minimum salary. If the Knicks can’t find a worthwhile deal, then bringing back Achiuwa, who performed well after joining the group this winter, remains on the table.
martin wrote:From Fred:https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5645318...
Achiuwa updateWeeks into free agency, Achiuwa is lingering in the market. At this point, remaining unsigned could be to both his and the Knicks’ advantage.
The Knicks remain open to bringing back Achiuwa, who they acquired as part of the December trade that brought OG Anunoby to New York. And yet, for now, they are best leaving Achiuwa unsigned — and Achiuwa can maximize his market by waiting.
The NBA’s economy has changed under this new collective bargaining agreement. The middle class is getting hit. Zero free agents this summer have received the non-taxpayer midlevel exception for multiple seasons. De’Anthony Melton is the only person to receive it in full, but he got only one year with the Golden State Warriors. Others have had to take less. Many organizations haven’t used their midlevel, whether the non-taxpayer or the taxpayer, at all.
The non-taxpayer midlevel exception, which allows over-the-cap teams to sign players to contracts with a starting salary of up to $12.9 million, also can be used as a trade exception now, which gives front offices an excuse to hold onto it if they don’t love what they see. Solid role players are getting squeezed.
Tyus Jones, who is sneakily coming off his best-ever season with the Washington Wizards, remains unsigned. Caleb Martin reportedly turned down a five-year, $65 million extension to test free agency and received only half of that guaranteed money over four years. Gary Trent Jr., a consistent scorer and shooter, settled for a minimum contract with the Milwaukee Bucks earlier this week.
That brings us back to Achiuwa, and why he may still be around.
If the offers are not attractive, maybe at the minimum or barely above, Achiuwa could be best off waiting to see what the Knicks do. And the Knicks could benefit from patience, too.
Here’s why:
Beginning this season, trades are far more difficult to make, especially for a team like the Knicks, who are above the first apron, a payroll threshold that limits an organization’s resources if it crests over it. One of the most punitive first-apron restrictions? The Knicks are not allowed to take back more salary than they send out in a trade.
This is where hypothetical trades become even more confusing: No team above the first apron can realistically make a trade with another that also is above the first apron. Unless they are dealing one player for another who makes the same salary, all the way down to the cent, one team will be absorbing more dollars than the other.
The Knicks could still use a backup center. A trade could entice them, but they need the tools to make it happen. Achiuwa would come in handy if they’re negotiating with a team also above the first apron.
Let’s say the Knicks agree to a trade with Team A that would send (I’m making up numbers to keep the math simple) $10 million in salaries to Team A and $14 million in salary to the Knicks. That means New York is adding $4 million to the deal. Achiuwa could remedy that. All the Knicks and Team A have to do is find a third team, someone either with cap room or an exception to absorb the big man, then agree to a sign-and-trade with Achiuwa that pays him more than $4 million.
The final version of the trade would look like this:
The Knicks send out $10 million of salaries on the roster and, say, a $5 million salary for Achiuwa in a sign-and-trade deal. They bring back $14 million and thus are in the clear.
Team A sends out $14 million and takes back $10 million, which puts it in the clear, as well.
Team B, which must be below the first apron, receives Achiuwa in a sign-and-trade and possibly lands a draft pick as a thank-you for facilitating the deal.
It’s why both sides might as well wait. In the end, the Knicks can execute a trade they otherwise couldn’t and Achiuwa receives more than a minimum salary. If the Knicks can’t find a worthwhile deal, then bringing back Achiuwa, who performed well after joining the group this winter, remains on the table.
Fred was a guest on the KFS podcast. Said something interesting. They might be waiting on a sign and trade but also that the Knicks might be in no big rush to make an immediate move to address an alternative at Center. Since they don't have a lot of draft capital except for the heavily protected Detroit/Washington Picks - they might end up re-signing Precious (i.e. $6M - $7M range) and see how things work - then make a move near the trade deadline if they feel a center will help them in the playoffs. Interestingly he pointed to Larry Nance Jr. as an example of a potential deadline move. Not sure how I feel about that as I really am not familiar with his game.
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These new NBA Union people are not smart. Just from the normal cap rules even someone who is really bad at math could tell the middle class NBA players were going to get squeezed once the harsh penalties started hitting teams. Not only that but having the full MLE also count as a trade exception is a direct attack on the middle class in the NBA. How could they ever let this get agreed on? We went from the middle class being overpaid last CBA to them being severely underpaid this season. Some of them are doing vet min deals hoping to get big contracts next season. Bro, that big contract might not be coming unless its from a team like DET and even they will be limited to the amount of players they can sign.
Going in w/ Mitch and Adams at center would be a contender move. I dont think we can add guys AND use Precious in a S%T deal (Im guessing it would cost McBride etc also)
fishmike wrote:the guy we really need is Steve Adams (assuming he's healthy)Going in w/ Mitch and Adams at center would be a contender move. I dont think we can add guys AND use Precious in a S%T deal (Im guessing it would cost McBride etc also)
He on Rockets. One year left on his deal. Mitch makes same money but has two years.
So why is he on the rockets? Hmmmmm
Raphael Stone vs. Garson Rosas.........Hmmmm, why is that? 
Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: The NBA’s economy has changed under this new collective bargaining agreement. The middle class is getting hit.
Click here to view the Tweet
These new NBA Union people are not smart. Just from the normal cap rules even someone who is really bad at math could tell the middle class NBA players were going to get squeezed once the harsh penalties started hitting teams. Not only that but having the full MLE also count as a trade exception is a direct attack on the middle class in the NBA. How could they ever let this get agreed on? We went from the middle class being overpaid last CBA to them being severely underpaid this season. Some of them are doing vet min deals hoping to get big contracts next season. Bro, that big contract might not be coming unless its from a team like DET and even they will be limited to the amount of players they can sign.
What I will never understand is how the rank and file mid & lower tier players (the majority of players) agree to terms that net the best players (the minority) these HUGE deals that in 5 or years may result in $100M a year to 1 player while the mid-tier guys are getting squeezed. Don't understand how the union majority is not significantly lowering the MAX amount top players can make and raising the bar on lower tier player salaries.
They are ALL sharing in a GIANT piece of money but right now sure seems that the TOP players are gaining far too much compared to rest of league. I fully understand stars bring the fans but also understand the union has other players that could be earning significantly more money.
Maybe I'm naive and missing something but seems majority of league are NOT stars -- pay scales seem far out of whack to me.
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GustavBahler wrote:Would be great if Sims returned with some game. Surprised he didn’t play at least one game in SL. Curious about how the FO feels about his future in NY. He’s been working with Mike Bibby on his shooting.
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I'm jaded after seeing JJ Reddick and Grimes work together in the offseason.
Still, I'd love to see an improved Sims.
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MaddogSharp wrote:I would welcome him back he was real good for us but I’m really concerned about backup C. Always been a big Mitch fan but he can’t stay healthy a whole year or even 75-80% of it
I’m not as concerned about backup center because there will be a ton of avenues to upgrade the position during the season. As long as the Knicks have the available salary they are willing to move in a trade there will be a lot of centers possibly on the market. Adams, Rob Williams, Ayton, Valanciunas, capela, Larry nance, etc. there will be plenty of options that may not be now.
No reason we can’t go with Julius at the back up 5. We have two unbelievable defenders and spacing everywhere, that is probably the lack of urgency here. We need hart on the floor as much as possible and Simms can give you a couple of minutes.
MS wrote:It’s the east.No reason we can’t go with Julius at the back up 5. We have two unbelievable defenders and spacing everywhere, that is probably the lack of urgency here. We need hart on the floor as much as possible and Simms can give you a couple of minutes.
I concur with no major urgency. Mitch/Sims is still quite a strong center tandem.
We have a pretty awesome roster, with a heck of a lot of depth and positional versatility from 1-4. Folks like Randle and OG can cover centers for stretches. I'd like to bring back Achiuwa, as he brings a lot of positional versatility defensively as well. I feel like he provides a lot of high energy play, leading to helter skelter basketball - great for disrupting the rhythm of opponents and winning 50/50 balls on the floor.
At the moment, there's only one bruiser (Embiid) who can hurt us on man coverage, but let's not worry about him too much. Sure he destroys everyone he faces, not just us. But he's also quite injured every year heading to the playoffs so you can't overcompensate your roster to stop him, because in my mind there's less than a 60% chance you'll get a healthy version of him, if he even plays.
The main thing we need to account for is a shot blocking threat/rim protector off the bench. There's a fairly big gap in that between Mitch and Sims.
I'm curious if the team is willing to roll with Ariel Hukporti on the NBA roster. He looks competent in the summer league. (as we know, it's difficult for big men to stand out in the SL style of play, at least on the offensive end)
Just reposting his SI scouting report here:
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-pr...
SergioNYK wrote:I kinda want to see Randle at the 5 and OGA at the 4.
I am here for now with the guidance that on defense, they play the matchups.
KnickDanger wrote:Has Randle ever been effectively used at the 5? I don’t recall it but someone please correct me if you remember a time.
If so, not for any long stretches. He can probably be pretty effective on offense but IMO might be a defensive liability at the 5. Perhaps switching - for instance he can take some of the IHart role on offense (with better 3pt shooting) and maybe OG can cover defending the 5.
foosballnick wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Has Randle ever been effectively used at the 5? I don’t recall it but someone please correct me if you remember a time.If so, not for any long stretches. He can probably be pretty effective on offense but IMO might be a defensive liability at the 5. Perhaps switching - for instance he can take some of the IHart role on offense (with better 3pt shooting) and maybe OG can cover defending the 5.
Yeah, it just doesn’t appear to me to be a viable solution.
KnickDanger wrote:Has Randle ever been effectively used at the 5? I don’t recall it but someone please correct me if you remember a time.
Good question, though I am not certain it is the correct one.
In this concept, defense is fluid. You have two elite defenders in OG Anunoby and Mikal Bridges who will inevitably pick up the first and second best offensive players on the opposing team, regardless of position. Their versatility makes this possible.
On offense, you are likely to see a 4-1 motion offense where the Center (Randle) would be tasked with moving to different portion of the box, bodying the other side to create space for a drive and being the fulcrum of the passing offense - use his gravity to collapse the defense and find any of the other 4 37%+ 3 point shooters on the court.
You'd give up the huge positional size advantage the Knicks have on defense with a lineup of Brunson/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle/Robinson, but you would have perhaps one of the more elite offenses in Brunson/DDV/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle.
Ideally, it would compare with the Death Lineup of Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Green that won 73 games. That team still had better positional size at each slot and more HoF credentials, so I am not trying to overstate its effectiveness. But the modeling would be similar, with Anunoby and Bridge's defensive versatility allowing the Knicks to match Iggy and Green's versatility on that squad.
The highlight of that squad has Curry, Durant and Thompson all shooting well over 40% from three, a feat the Knicks probably can't match. But I think Randle is a more prominent offensive player than Green and would do better in the post than Green. Assuming he can have the mental fortitude to pass when needed and not force plays, it would be a monster lineup that would force a lot of mismatches across the league. It would spread the floor to allow Brunson and Bridges more room to work, both having pretty efficient mid-range games. The combined offensive output potentially making up for the Curry and Durant's HOF credentials, this squad doesn't really have any 'duds' on offense - Dray and Iggy were pretty inefficient, but minimized in their offensive roles.
Without a better passing big, it feels like the best we can do with the personnel we have. Not to belittle Robinson, but his inclusion bolsters the defense, but is a bit of a drag on the offense.
EwingsGlass wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Has Randle ever been effectively used at the 5? I don’t recall it but someone please correct me if you remember a time.Good question, though I am not certain it is the correct one.
In this concept, defense is fluid. You have two elite defenders in OG Anunoby and Mikal Bridges who will inevitably pick up the first and second best offensive players on the opposing team, regardless of position. Their versatility makes this possible.
On offense, you are likely to see a 4-1 motion offense where the Center (Randle) would be tasked with moving to different portion of the box, bodying the other side to create space for a drive and being the fulcrum of the passing offense - use his gravity to collapse the defense and find any of the other 4 37%+ 3 point shooters on the court.
You'd give up the huge positional size advantage the Knicks have on defense with a lineup of Brunson/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle/Robinson, but you would have perhaps one of the more elite offenses in Brunson/DDV/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle.
Ideally, it would compare with the Death Lineup of Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Green that won 73 games. That team still had better positional size at each slot and more HoF credentials, so I am not trying to overstate its effectiveness. But the modeling would be similar, with Anunoby and Bridge's defensive versatility allowing the Knicks to match Iggy and Green's versatility on that squad.
The highlight of that squad has Curry, Durant and Thompson all shooting well over 40% from three, a feat the Knicks probably can't match. But I think Randle is a more prominent offensive player than Green and would do better in the post than Green. Assuming he can have the mental fortitude to pass when needed and not force plays, it would be a monster lineup that would force a lot of mismatches across the league. It would spread the floor to allow Brunson and Bridges more room to work, both having pretty efficient mid-range games. The combined offensive output potentially making up for the Curry and Durant's HOF credentials, this squad doesn't really have any 'duds' on offense - Dray and Iggy were pretty inefficient, but minimized in their offensive roles.
Without a better passing big, it feels like the best we can do with the personnel we have. Not to belittle Robinson, but his inclusion bolsters the defense, but is a bit of a drag on the offense.
Appreciate your insights. That scenario would be very cool.
I suppose my apprehension is simply we haven’t employed Randle effectively at the 5 before, for whatever reasons. But it’s a different team and vibe now. I’d be all for giving it an honest shot.
KnickDanger wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Has Randle ever been effectively used at the 5? I don’t recall it but someone please correct me if you remember a time.Good question, though I am not certain it is the correct one.
In this concept, defense is fluid. You have two elite defenders in OG Anunoby and Mikal Bridges who will inevitably pick up the first and second best offensive players on the opposing team, regardless of position. Their versatility makes this possible.
On offense, you are likely to see a 4-1 motion offense where the Center (Randle) would be tasked with moving to different portion of the box, bodying the other side to create space for a drive and being the fulcrum of the passing offense - use his gravity to collapse the defense and find any of the other 4 37%+ 3 point shooters on the court.
You'd give up the huge positional size advantage the Knicks have on defense with a lineup of Brunson/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle/Robinson, but you would have perhaps one of the more elite offenses in Brunson/DDV/Bridges/Anunoby/Randle.
Ideally, it would compare with the Death Lineup of Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Green that won 73 games. That team still had better positional size at each slot and more HoF credentials, so I am not trying to overstate its effectiveness. But the modeling would be similar, with Anunoby and Bridge's defensive versatility allowing the Knicks to match Iggy and Green's versatility on that squad.
The highlight of that squad has Curry, Durant and Thompson all shooting well over 40% from three, a feat the Knicks probably can't match. But I think Randle is a more prominent offensive player than Green and would do better in the post than Green. Assuming he can have the mental fortitude to pass when needed and not force plays, it would be a monster lineup that would force a lot of mismatches across the league. It would spread the floor to allow Brunson and Bridges more room to work, both having pretty efficient mid-range games. The combined offensive output potentially making up for the Curry and Durant's HOF credentials, this squad doesn't really have any 'duds' on offense - Dray and Iggy were pretty inefficient, but minimized in their offensive roles.
Without a better passing big, it feels like the best we can do with the personnel we have. Not to belittle Robinson, but his inclusion bolsters the defense, but is a bit of a drag on the offense.
Appreciate your insights. That scenario would be very cool.I suppose my apprehension is simply we haven’t employed Randle effectively at the 5 before, for whatever reasons. But it’s a different team and vibe now. I’d be all for giving it an honest shot.
Yeah, I don't know I would go into the season as our only option since it is clearly unproven. I still think we need at least a backup C. Sims is next man up. Or Achiuwa. But we will see.