Knicks get younger and fit into the second apron. Doesn't address backup C but it's something
The Knicks have been a hot topic this offseason. They gave up a boatload of draft picks to get Mikal Bridges from Brooklyn and are bringing back OG Anunoby, giving the title contenders one of the best wing duos in the NBA. That move, though, also puts New York in jeopardy of being hard-capped at the first apron, which, by all accounts, isn’t something the team is interested in.The Knicks need to shed about $4.3 million to avoid this. Detroit can capitalize on this given its remaining financial flexibility while still addressing needs in the process.
Here is what a trade would have to look like to, potentially, satisfy both sides:
Pistons receive Mitchell Robinson, Miles McBride, a 2025 first-round pick (via Detroit) and multiple future seconds
Knicks receive Jalen Duren and Jaden Ivey
I’m sure some Pistons fans will hate this and some will love it, but it does allow both sides to meet their objective. For Detroit, it gets both a proven rim protector at the center spot in Robinson and a backup point guard in McBride. Most importantly, the Pistons get back their future first-rounder that makes it very, very hard and puts them at a disadvantage if they were to consider a trade for a top-30-ish player in the very near future. Giving up Duren and Ivey would be tough, as both players still have upside, but the Pistons have to consider giving them extensions next summer, and Langdon didn’t draft either one.
For New York, this trade sheds $6.5 million in salary, so the financial goal is met. Additionally, per league sources, the Knicks were very interested in Ivey during the 2022 NBA Draft and nearly traded for him. A move like this would allow the Knicks to have some young, lottery-pick prospects in the pipeline who can also contribute right now.
martin wrote:Knicks get younger and fit into the second apron. Doesn't address backup C but it's somethingThe Knicks have been a hot topic this offseason. They gave up a boatload of draft picks to get Mikal Bridges from Brooklyn and are bringing back OG Anunoby, giving the title contenders one of the best wing duos in the NBA. That move, though, also puts New York in jeopardy of being hard-capped at the first apron, which, by all accounts, isn’t something the team is interested in.The Knicks need to shed about $4.3 million to avoid this. Detroit can capitalize on this given its remaining financial flexibility while still addressing needs in the process.
Here is what a trade would have to look like to, potentially, satisfy both sides:
Pistons receive Mitchell Robinson, Miles McBride, a 2025 first-round pick (via Detroit) and multiple future seconds
Knicks receive Jalen Duren and Jaden Ivey
I’m sure some Pistons fans will hate this and some will love it, but it does allow both sides to meet their objective. For Detroit, it gets both a proven rim protector at the center spot in Robinson and a backup point guard in McBride. Most importantly, the Pistons get back their future first-rounder that makes it very, very hard and puts them at a disadvantage if they were to consider a trade for a top-30-ish player in the very near future. Giving up Duren and Ivey would be tough, as both players still have upside, but the Pistons have to consider giving them extensions next summer, and Langdon didn’t draft either one.
For New York, this trade sheds $6.5 million in salary, so the financial goal is met. Additionally, per league sources, the Knicks were very interested in Ivey during the 2022 NBA Draft and nearly traded for him. A move like this would allow the Knicks to have some young, lottery-pick prospects in the pipeline who can also contribute right now.
Solid proposal. But since Detroit is clearly mismanaged and just traded QGrimes for THJ, can we just sign and trade them Burks for 14mm in exchange for the same players and they give us the picks?
Doesnt solve our center depth issue and downgrades our defense so it doesn't help a team thats trying to win a title next year.
martin wrote:Knicks get younger and fit into the second apron. Doesn't address backup C but it's somethingThe Knicks have been a hot topic this offseason. They gave up a boatload of draft picks to get Mikal Bridges from Brooklyn and are bringing back OG Anunoby, giving the title contenders one of the best wing duos in the NBA. That move, though, also puts New York in jeopardy of being hard-capped at the first apron, which, by all accounts, isn’t something the team is interested in.The Knicks need to shed about $4.3 million to avoid this. Detroit can capitalize on this given its remaining financial flexibility while still addressing needs in the process.
Here is what a trade would have to look like to, potentially, satisfy both sides:
Pistons receive Mitchell Robinson, Miles McBride, a 2025 first-round pick (via Detroit) and multiple future seconds
Knicks receive Jalen Duren and Jaden Ivey
I’m sure some Pistons fans will hate this and some will love it, but it does allow both sides to meet their objective. For Detroit, it gets both a proven rim protector at the center spot in Robinson and a backup point guard in McBride. Most importantly, the Pistons get back their future first-rounder that makes it very, very hard and puts them at a disadvantage if they were to consider a trade for a top-30-ish player in the very near future. Giving up Duren and Ivey would be tough, as both players still have upside, but the Pistons have to consider giving them extensions next summer, and Langdon didn’t draft either one.
For New York, this trade sheds $6.5 million in salary, so the financial goal is met. Additionally, per league sources, the Knicks were very interested in Ivey during the 2022 NBA Draft and nearly traded for him. A move like this would allow the Knicks to have some young, lottery-pick prospects in the pipeline who can also contribute right now.
/
Getting back their pick is the key. Duran? Physically he is a stud, but can't speak to his defensive IQ.
Ivey is Shumpert/Westbrick comp. Super athletic but shot suspect thus far. Westbrook gets all kinds of shit now but was an MVP and top 15 player for almost a decade. He is HOF bound.
Ivey has upside but can Detroit wait for it? Johnny Bryant would salivate to work with this kid? Could he handle coming off the bench?
At the same time can we win a chip with Duran in the middle? We are bonafide contenders on paper.
Interesting take.
I don’t think this makes all that much sense for us. I mean, we’re win now- Thibs doesn’t want to start working with 2 near rookies.
I loved Ivey coming into the draft - but McBride had a couple big games, big moments in the play offs. We want to build on that, not see what happens when we roll a 22 year old first time in the big moment Ivey out in the playoffs.
No, I’m not trading McBride who already looks better than Ivey or the best offensive rebounder and very good rim protector for unproven youth. Plus a first no way. That’s a package I would do for a proven star that wants out of his current situation.
If Robinson stays healthy and McBride keeps growing that could be a disaster of a trade.
Don't like this proposal at all. We don't have the mins for Ivey to begin with and subtracting from our Center situation. The value given up doesn't match the teams needs.
Like I said in the other thread just do Deuce for Duren straight up.
Detroit definitely bites if you give them back their first round pick which probably never conveys to Knicks anyway.
I have several problems with this trade
Mitch >> Duran
Deuce >> Ivey
We would be left without a starting Center
Mitch and Deuce have playoff experience, Ivey and Duran come from a team/culture that doesn't even know how to win a regular season game
Cap space is an illusion. We still have to extend Brunson and Randle.
The picks should be coming our way since we are trading the better players
VDesai wrote:Doesnt solve our center depth issue and downgrades our defense so it doesn't help a team thats trying to win a title next year.
This. Could be a nice long term move, but we're officially a win now team trying to capitalize on this 2-3 year window while we have OG, Novas, and Randle locked into deals. I don't expect the Detroit guys will surpass Mitch/Deuce next year or even the year after.
Deuce is better than Ivey now. But Ivey is younger, taller, and has a higher ceiling IMO. And might respond well to being on a team with higher standards, championship aspirations.. Id be up for finding out.
I’d do this trade in a heartbeat.
I was a fan of going after Ivey before the bridges deal. But generally it seems like we downgrade at both center and backup PG.
The FO made the decision to go win now and I don't think anyone has the patience to watch Duren miss defensive rotations and crucial game moment. I do it if they could somehow keep Mitch. But it's a big "no" if the expectation is to have Jalen come in as the starter. I also like Ivey, but Im not sure he can contribute to winning basketball as an off-ball player and, again, I'm not sure Inhave the patience to watch him figure it out during crucial stretches of a post-season run.
Regarding a hypothetical Mitch for Duren.
Mitch just finished his 6 season and somehow has gotten worse in FT % every year and was 40% last year. From the fucking ft line, Jesus Mitch stop throwing fast balls at the rim.
As much as Mitch can single-handedly dominate a playoff series, he is also pretty accessible to be exactly one wrong step from missing the rest of a season or career. That should dominate a GM’s thoughts?
Duren shot 80% from the FT last year at Mitch’s highest volume for a year and that was a massive jump in accuracy. I have no clue if that’ll translate to other shot areas.
Duren has been a much better rebounder at same age as Mitch. I don’t know if that is just volume or what.
In 2 years Mitch will be UFA and Duren will an incredibly small cap hold and restricted.
There is a very real risk Mitch is not available to play at any time next year OR would be such a FT liability during playoffs he would not get playing time at a key moment because of that, ie more potential unavailability.
When you weigh those things, does it change your outlook over more than just next year?
Duren would/should be the smarter long term play?
Mitch ain’t getting much better offensively. What is Duren’s defensive and shooting ceiling?
Terrible trade
Duren may seem to be more durable but Trading one center for another, doesn’t really address the fact that we would still need a back up center
I’m a Ivey fan and believe he is going to be a stud in the league but he has shown this past season that he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Going to be tough getting touches on a team with two iso dominate players. Deuce knows his role and does it very well for the Knicks.
Today, Mitch is a better player than Duren..the issue is his health and availability. Knicks should be looking for someone who can share the center position with Robinson. Not replace him.
When it comes to Ivey, he may not be happy coming off the bench and clocking in 10-15 min a night (essentially what Deuce role is now). Although I believe he is very talented, he is still hasn’t found his footing in the NBA, while Deuce has and seems to have accepted it.
A few months ago people sent around a video of how bad Durens defensive IQ was. It was eye opening. He has all the physical tools and that is why he gets a lot of raw stats but he is a losing player until he fixes his IQ.
I think it's a reasonable/decent trade idea... just not sure Thibs would want Duren and Ivey while trying to compete at a higher level this upcoming season. Long-term I think Ivey will be really good and Duren seems to have the tools to be very solid at both ends.
It looks like someone else remembered the video I was talking about and saved it so they could repost it after this trade popped up.
I see the Duran video and its to be assumed he won't or can't improve?
Can we compile 25 min of Mitch bad plays? These videos can be very influential both ways.
Watch a half our of Mitch take FT's will be awful.
I think the trade hypothetical is about looking forward. Fans often look backwards and remember the good of our player, and look for reasons to not look forward at players who have yet to prove themselves. If those player were proven they'd be more more expensive or not available at all.
Reality is we might trade players we like if we to win a chip. Deuce? Perhaps if one thinks about it Josh hart is redundant now that Mikal is rostered. Blasphemy to even say such a thing, right? Josh is a bench player. No, Im not suggesting we move him!
Nalod wrote:I see the Duran video and its to be assumed he won't or can't improve?
Can we compile 25 min of Mitch bad plays? These videos can be very influential both ways.
Watch a half our of Mitch take FT's will be awful.
I think the trade hypothetical is about looking forward. Fans often look backwards and remember the good of our player, and look for reasons to not look forward at players who have yet to prove themselves. If those player were proven they'd be more more expensive or not available at all.
Reality is we might trade players we like if we to win a chip. Deuce? Perhaps if one thinks about it Josh hart is redundant now that Mikal is rostered. Blasphemy to even say such a thing, right? Josh is a bench player. No, Im not suggesting we move him!
So the question is are you willing to trade Miles McBride, Mitchell Robinson, 2025 DET first-round pick, multiple future second-round picks on the hope that Duran's defensive IQ will greatly improve?
Lots of people made a similar bet that James Wisemans IQ would improve and so far it has not. In my opinion, there are some things that are hard for a player to greatly improve on. Their IQ and their motor. I am not saying it has never or will never happen. I am saying the odds are so low it is not worth the gamble unless the risks are also low.
