Knicks · Randle's Extension (page 3)
martin wrote:My thought is that there is a lot of loyalty between both Randle and the Knicks organization, from Dolan and Leon both and from Randle to them back. Dolan will be there to look Randle in the eye on this one, he is a dork but this is all he has to do. Everyone at the table - Randle, Randle's agent, Leon, Dolan, Brock - all want the same thing: for Randle to stay at the contract amount that he feels comfortable with and with what Knicks and Brock Aller will lay out in full, transparent detail right to Randle and his agent about the Knicks sustained path to championship level team, players, salary situation. Those details will include how much Jalen helped the Knicks cap situations - and they will frame it in terms of helping everyone get to a championship, not how much $ sacrifice any player is taking even though everyone understands exactly those numbers, they will show them and be transparent - and how much they *hope* (but really already know cause that was mostly likely worked out before the picks were offered) Mikal's extension will help the Knicks re-invest back into their team to get the rings.They will show Randle exactly how his *Knicks* max contract will fit in year by year. It will be generous but exactly fit into a very specific slot in the Knicks Jalen pecking order of things. They will profusely thank him for taking a chance on Knicks and giving them that glorious 2020 season and remind him how much they supported him when his troubles started, they did not waiver on that at all. Zero. Randle will nod Yes to that.
They will ask Randle to be transparent back to them and ask Randle if he and team would really want a max-max above what they are showing him, please kindly list 2 or 3 teams you would like to land on and we will do our best to get you there AND we will make sure to set those contract expectation terms for you with them because that's how Leon does business. You know that we know that we have done this for our guys and we will for you too. He and Dolan may dap, they both know the emotional struggles. Bro hugs if the tears show up.
And then I'd watch what Dallas and then New Orleans does if this juncture comes to pass.
Nalod wrote:Is there a thought in the knicks organization and with Randles camp that he is going to get traded. If so then the hypotheticals are ok to discuss. I can see this as a possibility.Im wondering if Minny is waiting until its ownership arbitration is complete before it would make a massive trade like moving KAT.
I don't see how the money works for us if thats Leons move but Randle on Minny makes sense. They have Reid when they want to go big. Randle is a more flexible greater then KAT. A lot of pieces have to get shifted by both teams to make this happen and I don't see the numbers nor do I see Mitch and Randle moved for KAT. Can't Fathom DDV and Randle both being moved either.
Poses the question: Objectively, if DDV and randle is the price and Thibs says that gets us to the finals, do you do it? Not easy for this fan to promote that. Seems sacrilege but its why Leon gets the big bucks.The Nick Richards/MIles Bridges for Randle seems easy and logical for both teams. Obviously there are many reasons to like or hate that also.
Perhaps it all comes down mid season when players can get moved and we have evaluated Simms, Huk, and others for that matter. Im sure we have offers for Kessler others but all teams have things to figure out also. Trades have to have mutual benefits.
First 20 games will tell a lot!
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.
Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:My thought is that there is a lot of loyalty between both Randle and the Knicks organization, from Dolan and Leon both and from Randle to them back. Dolan will be there to look Randle in the eye on this one, he is a dork but this is all he has to do. Everyone at the table - Randle, Randle's agent, Leon, Dolan, Brock - all want the same thing: for Randle to stay at the contract amount that he feels comfortable with and with what Knicks and Brock Aller will lay out in full, transparent detail right to Randle and his agent about the Knicks sustained path to championship level team, players, salary situation. Those details will include how much Jalen helped the Knicks cap situations - and they will frame it in terms of helping everyone get to a championship, not how much $ sacrifice any player is taking even though everyone understands exactly those numbers, they will show them and be transparent - and how much they *hope* (but really already know cause that was mostly likely worked out before the picks were offered) Mikal's extension will help the Knicks re-invest back into their team to get the rings.They will show Randle exactly how his *Knicks* max contract will fit in year by year. It will be generous but exactly fit into a very specific slot in the Knicks Jalen pecking order of things. They will profusely thank him for taking a chance on Knicks and giving them that glorious 2020 season and remind him how much they supported him when his troubles started, they did not waiver on that at all. Zero. Randle will nod Yes to that.
They will ask Randle to be transparent back to them and ask Randle if he and team would really want a max-max above what they are showing him, please kindly list 2 or 3 teams you would like to land on and we will do our best to get you there AND we will make sure to set those contract expectation terms for you with them because that's how Leon does business. You know that we know that we have done this for our guys and we will for you too. He and Dolan may dap, they both know the emotional struggles. Bro hugs if the tears show up.
And then I'd watch what Dallas and then New Orleans does if this juncture comes to pass.
Nalod wrote:Is there a thought in the knicks organization and with Randles camp that he is going to get traded. If so then the hypotheticals are ok to discuss. I can see this as a possibility.Im wondering if Minny is waiting until its ownership arbitration is complete before it would make a massive trade like moving KAT.
I don't see how the money works for us if thats Leons move but Randle on Minny makes sense. They have Reid when they want to go big. Randle is a more flexible greater then KAT. A lot of pieces have to get shifted by both teams to make this happen and I don't see the numbers nor do I see Mitch and Randle moved for KAT. Can't Fathom DDV and Randle both being moved either.
Poses the question: Objectively, if DDV and randle is the price and Thibs says that gets us to the finals, do you do it? Not easy for this fan to promote that. Seems sacrilege but its why Leon gets the big bucks.The Nick Richards/MIles Bridges for Randle seems easy and logical for both teams. Obviously there are many reasons to like or hate that also.
Perhaps it all comes down mid season when players can get moved and we have evaluated Simms, Huk, and others for that matter. Im sure we have offers for Kessler others but all teams have things to figure out also. Trades have to have mutual benefits.
First 20 games will tell a lot!
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Yessir, Jules knows the unspoken deal. If you are not in line with our vision of you within a team championship picture of things, it's baddass cold in Minny bro or are you more a Mormon in disguise type reality show family?
Maybe Ian here lurking and notes "People talking about Jules, I can get clicks". Its how it works.
wonder is he projecting what Leon is thinking or does fromt office speak to him?
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Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
It’s not glossing over. I don’t believe it to be true. I believe the team is better with Randle than not, but also think this team is being built around Brunson and to take the next elite step, Randle will have to change the way he plays ball. The team is better with any of Brunson, Bridges or OG shooting the ball. That isn’t to say he isn’t valuable or doesn’t have gravity. Just that Bridges and Anunoby are an elite wing pairing that are championship caliber defense without giving up much if anything on the offense. Two top 5 3&Ds.
Randle with a role that does the blue collar work while having his offensive skills would put this team over the top. It would make him more valuable than Mikal. But answer this honestly. Will Randle box out of for his teammates? He was near the bottom of all PFs in BoxOuts .9 per game. ScreenAssists? Same 1.0 per game. It’s these little things that the Knicks need from the PF slot. And I don’t doubt he can do it. I think he can be better than Domantas Sabonis, but this team needs closer to what Sabonis brings on the other stats. Until then, he is a high volume, low efficiency shooter with a high turnover percentage.
With respect to Bridges, he gives the Knicks two elite wing defenders.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Randle could potentially break GSW’s records. They could destroy teams. But Randle needs to do the blue collar work in this group and trust his teammates to shoot. He’ll get his in the form of a triple double every night and if he hits the hustle stats and other misc stats like Box Outs and Screen Assists, he will be All NBA again. Whoever takes his role has that opportunity. This team can be legendary.
I think it demeaning to what he has accomplished. If his skills have eroded and thats his evolution, perhaps in time. But he was playing at a very high level as a 4. How he plays the 5 will be fun to watch if it comes to that playing small ball.
Anyone who doubts that hasn’t been paying attention. 
As far as his extension goes, Knicks will have plenty of opportunity to see how it looks and also if things like a Kessler trade our feasible. One thing is for sure, he won't leave as a FA.
EwingsGlass wrote:the last time you saw Randle play he was good for 25/8/5 while the Knicks won every game. What changes are looking to see. Seriously what are you talking about. They did lose 1 game in Jan I think you there's thatPanos wrote:Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
It’s not glossing over. I don’t believe it to be true. I believe the team is better with Randle than not, but also think this team is being built around Brunson and to take the next elite step, Randle will have to change the way he plays ball. The team is better with any of Brunson, Bridges or OG shooting the ball. That isn’t to say he isn’t valuable or doesn’t have gravity. Just that Bridges and Anunoby are an elite wing pairing that are championship caliber defense without giving up much if anything on the offense. Two top 5 3&Ds.
Randle with a role that does the blue collar work while having his offensive skills would put this team over the top. It would make him more valuable than Mikal. But answer this honestly. Will Randle box out of for his teammates? He was near the bottom of all PFs in BoxOuts .9 per game. ScreenAssists? Same 1.0 per game. It’s these little things that the Knicks need from the PF slot. And I don’t doubt he can do it. I think he can be better than Domantas Sabonis, but this team needs closer to what Sabonis brings on the other stats. Until then, he is a high volume, low efficiency shooter with a high turnover percentage.
With respect to Bridges, he gives the Knicks two elite wing defenders.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Randle could potentially break GSW’s records. They could destroy teams. But Randle needs to do the blue collar work in this group and trust his teammates to shoot. He’ll get his in the form of a triple double every night and if he hits the hustle stats and other misc stats like Box Outs and Screen Assists, he will be All NBA again. Whoever takes his role has that opportunity. This team can be legendary.
fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:the last time you saw Randle play he was good for 25/8/5 while the Knicks won every game. What changes are looking to see. Seriously what are you talking about. They did lose 1 game in Jan I think you there's thatPanos wrote:Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
It’s not glossing over. I don’t believe it to be true. I believe the team is better with Randle than not, but also think this team is being built around Brunson and to take the next elite step, Randle will have to change the way he plays ball. The team is better with any of Brunson, Bridges or OG shooting the ball. That isn’t to say he isn’t valuable or doesn’t have gravity. Just that Bridges and Anunoby are an elite wing pairing that are championship caliber defense without giving up much if anything on the offense. Two top 5 3&Ds.
Randle with a role that does the blue collar work while having his offensive skills would put this team over the top. It would make him more valuable than Mikal. But answer this honestly. Will Randle box out of for his teammates? He was near the bottom of all PFs in BoxOuts .9 per game. ScreenAssists? Same 1.0 per game. It’s these little things that the Knicks need from the PF slot. And I don’t doubt he can do it. I think he can be better than Domantas Sabonis, but this team needs closer to what Sabonis brings on the other stats. Until then, he is a high volume, low efficiency shooter with a high turnover percentage.
With respect to Bridges, he gives the Knicks two elite wing defenders.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Randle could potentially break GSW’s records. They could destroy teams. But Randle needs to do the blue collar work in this group and trust his teammates to shoot. He’ll get his in the form of a triple double every night and if he hits the hustle stats and other misc stats like Box Outs and Screen Assists, he will be All NBA again. Whoever takes his role has that opportunity. This team can be legendary.
Humor me for a moment and ignore all of January (14-2) and only consider the 4-2 we went against playoff teams.
We destroyed Philly despite Randle going 1-11. Decent "other stats" from Randle. The bench won that game. iHart clamped Joel "Fuck" Embiid.
Dallas beat us by 4. Kyrie and THJ went off. Luka didn't play. Randle was our highest scorer with 32 points resulting in a NetRtg of -1. Brunson and OG both had positive ratings. Randle had 5 assists and 4 turnovers. The bench is really the culprit on this one, but Dallas controlled the pace of this game and they didn't make Dallas work on defense. 128-124. Just a bad shooting night where the stars aligned for Dallas.
Loss to Orlando was without Brunson. Randle went 5-18 and the Knicks couldn't carry. Lost by 4.
We scraped past Minnesota. We won by 6. Randle had 39 points and 9 rebounds. Zero Assists. 6 Turnovers. +2 Net Rating. Brunson had perhaps his worst shooting night of the season for a lowly +16 net rating on 14 assists. Tell me. Who had the better game?
We destroyed Denver. Randle nearly triple doubled with 17/7/8 in 30 minutes of play. Loved his play that game. This is the mofo I want every night. This.
Miami was the "JR is trying to do too much game" that cost him his season. Trying to dunk on guys when up by a lot. Randle had 19 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists. 4 turnovers. 42% shooting. A win, but not pretty. Cost us Randle.
What's my point? Randle has a lot of skill sets but we do better as a team when he passes more. Without iHart, the Knicks are going to need find intangibles like screen assists and boxouts elsewhere. I'm not looking for him to be Oakley. I am looking for him to realize that he has Brunson, Bridges, and OG on a team that looks and feels like a 73 win team. Dray had 13 triple doubles that season. jHart covered his job and had 6 triple doubles. Sabonis has 26 triple doubles last year. Randle should try and get triple doubles, not high scoring totals.
EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:the last time you saw Randle play he was good for 25/8/5 while the Knicks won every game. What changes are looking to see. Seriously what are you talking about. They did lose 1 game in Jan I think you there's thatPanos wrote:Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
It’s not glossing over. I don’t believe it to be true. I believe the team is better with Randle than not, but also think this team is being built around Brunson and to take the next elite step, Randle will have to change the way he plays ball. The team is better with any of Brunson, Bridges or OG shooting the ball. That isn’t to say he isn’t valuable or doesn’t have gravity. Just that Bridges and Anunoby are an elite wing pairing that are championship caliber defense without giving up much if anything on the offense. Two top 5 3&Ds.
Randle with a role that does the blue collar work while having his offensive skills would put this team over the top. It would make him more valuable than Mikal. But answer this honestly. Will Randle box out of for his teammates? He was near the bottom of all PFs in BoxOuts .9 per game. ScreenAssists? Same 1.0 per game. It’s these little things that the Knicks need from the PF slot. And I don’t doubt he can do it. I think he can be better than Domantas Sabonis, but this team needs closer to what Sabonis brings on the other stats. Until then, he is a high volume, low efficiency shooter with a high turnover percentage.
With respect to Bridges, he gives the Knicks two elite wing defenders.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Randle could potentially break GSW’s records. They could destroy teams. But Randle needs to do the blue collar work in this group and trust his teammates to shoot. He’ll get his in the form of a triple double every night and if he hits the hustle stats and other misc stats like Box Outs and Screen Assists, he will be All NBA again. Whoever takes his role has that opportunity. This team can be legendary.
Humor me for a moment and ignore all of January (14-2) and only consider the 4-2 we went against playoff teams.
We destroyed Philly despite Randle going 1-11. Decent "other stats" from Randle. The bench won that game. iHart clamped Joel "Fuck" Embiid.
Dallas beat us by 4. Kyrie and THJ went off. Luka didn't play. Randle was our highest scorer with 32 points resulting in a NetRtg of -1. Brunson and OG both had positive ratings. Randle had 5 assists and 4 turnovers. The bench is really the culprit on this one, but Dallas controlled the pace of this game and they didn't make Dallas work on defense. 128-124. Just a bad shooting night where the stars aligned for Dallas.
Loss to Orlando was without Brunson. Randle went 5-18 and the Knicks couldn't carry. Lost by 4.
We scraped past Minnesota. We won by 6. Randle had 39 points and 9 rebounds. Zero Assists. 6 Turnovers. +2 Net Rating. Brunson had perhaps his worst shooting night of the season for a lowly +16 net rating on 14 assists. Tell me. Who had the better game?
We destroyed Denver. Randle nearly triple doubled with 17/7/8 in 30 minutes of play. Loved his play that game. This is the mofo I want every night. This.
Miami was the "JR is trying to do too much game" that cost him his season. Trying to dunk on guys when up by a lot. Randle had 19 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists. 4 turnovers. 42% shooting. A win, but not pretty. Cost us Randle.
What's my point? Randle has a lot of skill sets but we do better as a team when he passes more. Without iHart, the Knicks are going to need find intangibles like screen assists and boxouts elsewhere. I'm not looking for him to be Oakley. I am looking for him to realize that he has Brunson, Bridges, and OG on a team that looks and feels like a 73 win team. Dray had 13 triple doubles that season. jHart covered his job and had 6 triple doubles. Sabonis has 26 triple doubles last year. Randle should try and get triple doubles, not high scoring totals.
Think you both agree. Difference is Fish pointed out to you Randle already has done what you want him to do yet you are still worried. Small point, how did we do in playoffs without Randle this past season? Do you think losing to an okay Indy team is “better “. If Randle was there without JB would many be glossing over the loss?
HofstraBBall wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:the last time you saw Randle play he was good for 25/8/5 while the Knicks won every game. What changes are looking to see. Seriously what are you talking about. They did lose 1 game in Jan I think you there's thatPanos wrote:Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
It’s not glossing over. I don’t believe it to be true. I believe the team is better with Randle than not, but also think this team is being built around Brunson and to take the next elite step, Randle will have to change the way he plays ball. The team is better with any of Brunson, Bridges or OG shooting the ball. That isn’t to say he isn’t valuable or doesn’t have gravity. Just that Bridges and Anunoby are an elite wing pairing that are championship caliber defense without giving up much if anything on the offense. Two top 5 3&Ds.
Randle with a role that does the blue collar work while having his offensive skills would put this team over the top. It would make him more valuable than Mikal. But answer this honestly. Will Randle box out of for his teammates? He was near the bottom of all PFs in BoxOuts .9 per game. ScreenAssists? Same 1.0 per game. It’s these little things that the Knicks need from the PF slot. And I don’t doubt he can do it. I think he can be better than Domantas Sabonis, but this team needs closer to what Sabonis brings on the other stats. Until then, he is a high volume, low efficiency shooter with a high turnover percentage.
With respect to Bridges, he gives the Knicks two elite wing defenders.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Randle could potentially break GSW’s records. They could destroy teams. But Randle needs to do the blue collar work in this group and trust his teammates to shoot. He’ll get his in the form of a triple double every night and if he hits the hustle stats and other misc stats like Box Outs and Screen Assists, he will be All NBA again. Whoever takes his role has that opportunity. This team can be legendary.
Humor me for a moment and ignore all of January (14-2) and only consider the 4-2 we went against playoff teams.
We destroyed Philly despite Randle going 1-11. Decent "other stats" from Randle. The bench won that game. iHart clamped Joel "Fuck" Embiid.
Dallas beat us by 4. Kyrie and THJ went off. Luka didn't play. Randle was our highest scorer with 32 points resulting in a NetRtg of -1. Brunson and OG both had positive ratings. Randle had 5 assists and 4 turnovers. The bench is really the culprit on this one, but Dallas controlled the pace of this game and they didn't make Dallas work on defense. 128-124. Just a bad shooting night where the stars aligned for Dallas.
Loss to Orlando was without Brunson. Randle went 5-18 and the Knicks couldn't carry. Lost by 4.
We scraped past Minnesota. We won by 6. Randle had 39 points and 9 rebounds. Zero Assists. 6 Turnovers. +2 Net Rating. Brunson had perhaps his worst shooting night of the season for a lowly +16 net rating on 14 assists. Tell me. Who had the better game?
We destroyed Denver. Randle nearly triple doubled with 17/7/8 in 30 minutes of play. Loved his play that game. This is the mofo I want every night. This.
Miami was the "JR is trying to do too much game" that cost him his season. Trying to dunk on guys when up by a lot. Randle had 19 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists. 4 turnovers. 42% shooting. A win, but not pretty. Cost us Randle.
What's my point? Randle has a lot of skill sets but we do better as a team when he passes more. Without iHart, the Knicks are going to need find intangibles like screen assists and boxouts elsewhere. I'm not looking for him to be Oakley. I am looking for him to realize that he has Brunson, Bridges, and OG on a team that looks and feels like a 73 win team. Dray had 13 triple doubles that season. jHart covered his job and had 6 triple doubles. Sabonis has 26 triple doubles last year. Randle should try and get triple doubles, not high scoring totals.
Think you both agree. Difference is Fish pointed out to you Randle already has done what you want him to do yet you are still worried. Small point, how did we do in playoffs without Randle this past season? Do you think losing to an okay Indy team is “better “. If Randle was there without JB would many be glossing over the loss?
I don't think I am saying we are not better off with Randle versus without. Definitely want Randle and that 29mm of salary to be productive and not riding the pine.
I am saying that we don't need Randle to have a 29% usage on inefficient shots now and that I do want him to contribute in other ways. I am also saying that Randle is the prime candidate to step up and replace box outs and screen assists on this team. I don't think it is disrespectful to Randle to suggest that a role closer to Draymond Green's All NBA role rather than a role that feels like Kobe's role would be better for THIS team. I don't think that high-scoring Randle is good for this team. I just don't. Though I am curious what he could do with all the extra space he will get (though I worry that iHart vs Robinson helped create the space he found in December that helped clear his slump).
Taking Indiana to 7 games and losing stunk. But with most of our rotation depleted, I would have taken a healthy anyone. Would have loved to have Randle available. Or Bogs. Or OG. Or Robinson. We were running on fumes.
This is coming close to a dream team for me. Randle can absolutely be part of that dream team, but the Randle that scores 39 points in a game is barely winning games against playoff teams. The Randle that gets 17 points, 8 rebounds and 7 assists doesn't get a triple double cause he doesn't need to play the 4th quarter when the Knicks are up by 30 against the reigning world champions.
I expect this team to be better than last year's team. Triple Double Randle will make it elite.
EwingsGlass wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:the last time you saw Randle play he was good for 25/8/5 while the Knicks won every game. What changes are looking to see. Seriously what are you talking about. They did lose 1 game in Jan I think you there's thatPanos wrote:Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
It’s not glossing over. I don’t believe it to be true. I believe the team is better with Randle than not, but also think this team is being built around Brunson and to take the next elite step, Randle will have to change the way he plays ball. The team is better with any of Brunson, Bridges or OG shooting the ball. That isn’t to say he isn’t valuable or doesn’t have gravity. Just that Bridges and Anunoby are an elite wing pairing that are championship caliber defense without giving up much if anything on the offense. Two top 5 3&Ds.
Randle with a role that does the blue collar work while having his offensive skills would put this team over the top. It would make him more valuable than Mikal. But answer this honestly. Will Randle box out of for his teammates? He was near the bottom of all PFs in BoxOuts .9 per game. ScreenAssists? Same 1.0 per game. It’s these little things that the Knicks need from the PF slot. And I don’t doubt he can do it. I think he can be better than Domantas Sabonis, but this team needs closer to what Sabonis brings on the other stats. Until then, he is a high volume, low efficiency shooter with a high turnover percentage.
With respect to Bridges, he gives the Knicks two elite wing defenders.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Randle could potentially break GSW’s records. They could destroy teams. But Randle needs to do the blue collar work in this group and trust his teammates to shoot. He’ll get his in the form of a triple double every night and if he hits the hustle stats and other misc stats like Box Outs and Screen Assists, he will be All NBA again. Whoever takes his role has that opportunity. This team can be legendary.
Humor me for a moment and ignore all of January (14-2) and only consider the 4-2 we went against playoff teams.
We destroyed Philly despite Randle going 1-11. Decent "other stats" from Randle. The bench won that game. iHart clamped Joel "Fuck" Embiid.
Dallas beat us by 4. Kyrie and THJ went off. Luka didn't play. Randle was our highest scorer with 32 points resulting in a NetRtg of -1. Brunson and OG both had positive ratings. Randle had 5 assists and 4 turnovers. The bench is really the culprit on this one, but Dallas controlled the pace of this game and they didn't make Dallas work on defense. 128-124. Just a bad shooting night where the stars aligned for Dallas.
Loss to Orlando was without Brunson. Randle went 5-18 and the Knicks couldn't carry. Lost by 4.
We scraped past Minnesota. We won by 6. Randle had 39 points and 9 rebounds. Zero Assists. 6 Turnovers. +2 Net Rating. Brunson had perhaps his worst shooting night of the season for a lowly +16 net rating on 14 assists. Tell me. Who had the better game?
We destroyed Denver. Randle nearly triple doubled with 17/7/8 in 30 minutes of play. Loved his play that game. This is the mofo I want every night. This.
Miami was the "JR is trying to do too much game" that cost him his season. Trying to dunk on guys when up by a lot. Randle had 19 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists. 4 turnovers. 42% shooting. A win, but not pretty. Cost us Randle.
What's my point? Randle has a lot of skill sets but we do better as a team when he passes more. Without iHart, the Knicks are going to need find intangibles like screen assists and boxouts elsewhere. I'm not looking for him to be Oakley. I am looking for him to realize that he has Brunson, Bridges, and OG on a team that looks and feels like a 73 win team. Dray had 13 triple doubles that season. jHart covered his job and had 6 triple doubles. Sabonis has 26 triple doubles last year. Randle should try and get triple doubles, not high scoring totals.
Think you both agree. Difference is Fish pointed out to you Randle already has done what you want him to do yet you are still worried. Small point, how did we do in playoffs without Randle this past season? Do you think losing to an okay Indy team is “better “. If Randle was there without JB would many be glossing over the loss?
I don't think I am saying we are not better off with Randle versus without. Definitely want Randle and that 29mm of salary to be productive and not riding the pine.
I am saying that we don't need Randle to have a 29% usage on inefficient shots now and that I do want him to contribute in other ways. I am also saying that Randle is the prime candidate to step up and replace box outs and screen assists on this team. I don't think it is disrespectful to Randle to suggest that a role closer to Draymond Green's All NBA role rather than a role that feels like Kobe's role would be better for THIS team. I don't think that high-scoring Randle is good for this team. I just don't. Though I am curious what he could do with all the extra space he will get (though I worry that iHart vs Robinson helped create the space he found in December that helped clear his slump).
Taking Indiana to 7 games and losing stunk. But with most of our rotation depleted, I would have taken a healthy anyone. Would have loved to have Randle available. Or Bogs. Or OG. Or Robinson. We were running on fumes.
This is coming close to a dream team for me. Randle can absolutely be part of that dream team, but the Randle that scores 39 points in a game is barely winning games against playoff teams. The Randle that gets 17 points, 8 rebounds and 7 assists doesn't get a triple double cause he doesn't need to play the 4th quarter when the Knicks are up by 30 against the reigning world champions.
I expect this team to be better than last year's team. Triple Double Randle will make it elite.
Think we all agree that Randle would benefit the team with better shot selection and less TO’s.
Feel he showed that with a solid cast around him, he is more efficient. Think he will again.
Point about Indy is that regardless of the injuries, variables, we both know the narrative would be different if Randle not JB was in the same situation.
Just the reality of how fans view Randle despite his commitment and production.
Hopefully we stay healthy and put that all behind us with a great season.
HofstraBBall wrote:to me this is the end of the discussion. It's a small sample size but the ONLY sample size we have to work with. Lets also add that Jules (3x all star) has said he will gladly accept any role as all that matters is winning.EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:the last time you saw Randle play he was good for 25/8/5 while the Knicks won every game. What changes are looking to see. Seriously what are you talking about. They did lose 1 game in Jan I think you there's thatPanos wrote:Nalod wrote:
Not unreasonable and Suspect thats how it plays out.
At the same time its a business and his time here may have served its purpose and now time to move on. Could be mutual. We need a 5. Did we need Mikal? Not really. Want vs. Need. Mitch's fragility makes us vulnerable.Randle moving on is not based on a contentious scenario. Not like they are negotiating and Leon asks with some nefarious tone "So, Jules, how old is that son of yours now? Bet you really proud of him? Right? So he what, home playing video games and your wife, cleaning up dinner, while you here with us, right? Don't worry, we have a very responsible colleague there who won't interfere unless we tell him, so, lets get back to the numbers, right? we finish here, you go home, get some sleep, make another kids, what ever, its all good, unless of course reciprocity is not felt, right? It gets cold in Minnesota!"
Bold is very true, and something I think people are glossing over. Randle is way more important to this team than Mikal. Thinking he is expendable now is silly. We need more big bodies, not less.
It’s not glossing over. I don’t believe it to be true. I believe the team is better with Randle than not, but also think this team is being built around Brunson and to take the next elite step, Randle will have to change the way he plays ball. The team is better with any of Brunson, Bridges or OG shooting the ball. That isn’t to say he isn’t valuable or doesn’t have gravity. Just that Bridges and Anunoby are an elite wing pairing that are championship caliber defense without giving up much if anything on the offense. Two top 5 3&Ds.
Randle with a role that does the blue collar work while having his offensive skills would put this team over the top. It would make him more valuable than Mikal. But answer this honestly. Will Randle box out of for his teammates? He was near the bottom of all PFs in BoxOuts .9 per game. ScreenAssists? Same 1.0 per game. It’s these little things that the Knicks need from the PF slot. And I don’t doubt he can do it. I think he can be better than Domantas Sabonis, but this team needs closer to what Sabonis brings on the other stats. Until then, he is a high volume, low efficiency shooter with a high turnover percentage.
With respect to Bridges, he gives the Knicks two elite wing defenders.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Randle could potentially break GSW’s records. They could destroy teams. But Randle needs to do the blue collar work in this group and trust his teammates to shoot. He’ll get his in the form of a triple double every night and if he hits the hustle stats and other misc stats like Box Outs and Screen Assists, he will be All NBA again. Whoever takes his role has that opportunity. This team can be legendary.
Humor me for a moment and ignore all of January (14-2) and only consider the 4-2 we went against playoff teams.
We destroyed Philly despite Randle going 1-11. Decent "other stats" from Randle. The bench won that game. iHart clamped Joel "Fuck" Embiid.
Dallas beat us by 4. Kyrie and THJ went off. Luka didn't play. Randle was our highest scorer with 32 points resulting in a NetRtg of -1. Brunson and OG both had positive ratings. Randle had 5 assists and 4 turnovers. The bench is really the culprit on this one, but Dallas controlled the pace of this game and they didn't make Dallas work on defense. 128-124. Just a bad shooting night where the stars aligned for Dallas.
Loss to Orlando was without Brunson. Randle went 5-18 and the Knicks couldn't carry. Lost by 4.
We scraped past Minnesota. We won by 6. Randle had 39 points and 9 rebounds. Zero Assists. 6 Turnovers. +2 Net Rating. Brunson had perhaps his worst shooting night of the season for a lowly +16 net rating on 14 assists. Tell me. Who had the better game?
We destroyed Denver. Randle nearly triple doubled with 17/7/8 in 30 minutes of play. Loved his play that game. This is the mofo I want every night. This.
Miami was the "JR is trying to do too much game" that cost him his season. Trying to dunk on guys when up by a lot. Randle had 19 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists. 4 turnovers. 42% shooting. A win, but not pretty. Cost us Randle.
What's my point? Randle has a lot of skill sets but we do better as a team when he passes more. Without iHart, the Knicks are going to need find intangibles like screen assists and boxouts elsewhere. I'm not looking for him to be Oakley. I am looking for him to realize that he has Brunson, Bridges, and OG on a team that looks and feels like a 73 win team. Dray had 13 triple doubles that season. jHart covered his job and had 6 triple doubles. Sabonis has 26 triple doubles last year. Randle should try and get triple doubles, not high scoring totals.
Think you both agree. Difference is Fish pointed out to you Randle already has done what you want him to do yet you are still worried. Small point, how did we do in playoffs without Randle this past season? Do you think losing to an okay Indy team is “better “. If Randle was there without JB would many be glossing over the loss?
We have an established chemistry with Randle, Thibs and Brunson and that those Jan games. Ya'll just scratching scabs cause your bored. Lets these men cook
Rookie wrote:I say no way he takes a team friendly deal like Brunson and OG did. Only question here is if a max extension is even on the table - 4 years 181.5M
OG’s deal is “team friendly”? Really? At $42.5 million a year? I’m sorry but just because you prefer a player to another does not make $42.5 million a year “team friendly.” I’m not sure Dennis Rodman in his prime at $42.5 million a year would be considered “team friendly”
SupremeCommander wrote:Rookie wrote:I say no way he takes a team friendly deal like Brunson and OG did. Only question here is if a max extension is even on the table - 4 years 181.5MOG's deal is “team friendly”? Really? At $42.5 million a year? I'm sorry but just because you prefer a player to another does not make $42.5 million a year “team friendly.” I'm not sure Dennis Rodman in his prime at $42.5 million a year would be considered “team friendly”
Numbers aside, OG's injury history makes it a player friendly deal.
No denying what OG does to the win column, but there's also no denying that the man cant stay on the court for long stretches. Hoping OG eventually gets past it like Camby did in Denver. That would be a game changer. Would give Boston fits.
SupremeCommander wrote:Rookie wrote:I say no way he takes a team friendly deal like Brunson and OG did. Only question here is if a max extension is even on the table - 4 years 181.5MOG's deal is “team friendly”? Really? At $42.5 million a year? I'm sorry but just because you prefer a player to another does not make $42.5 million a year “team friendly.” I'm not sure Dennis Rodman in his prime at $42.5 million a year would be considered “team friendly”
Dang dude, you always come out swinging. OG was eligible for a 5yr 245M extension for an average of 49M per. I'm not saying the Knicks would have gone there but he did leave money on the table when a team like Philly was drooling at the opportunity of stealing him away from the Knicks and had the cap to do it.
Rookie wrote:Dang dude, you always come out swinging. OG was eligible for a 5yr 245M extension for an average of 49M per. I'm not saying the Knicks would have gone there but he did leave money on the table when a team like Philly was drooling at the opportunity of stealing him away from the Knicks and had the cap to do it.
lol - no disrespect meant. I actually engage you a little more bluntly because I really appreciate your perspective and you know your stuff
(I’m also fucking exhausted this week as my toddler is having problems breathing and my five year old has to get stitches and to put it into perspective, my wife and three nurses had to hold him down and could only do so after sedating him with way more stuff than I would’ve been comfortable approving)
In general, I think Randle is worth more than OG annually. Now, I prefer OG and value his contributions more than Randle’s on this team tbh. That said Randle is good for 20/10/5 and he’s the only one where Brunson can drop it off for someone else to do the creating
Lastly, I honestly don’t care how much anyone on this team makes moving forward. Yeah I don’t want any overpays but that is more about risk management. The bottom line is this is our team until contracts start to expire. I don’t see how we add anyone outside of veteran minimum guys and draft picks. If Dolan is willing to post the luxury tax go gift it. Do with that in mind keep Randle and pay him because I don’t know how you get his replacement on the roster
SupremeCommander wrote:Rookie wrote:Dang dude, you always come out swinging. OG was eligible for a 5yr 245M extension for an average of 49M per. I'm not saying the Knicks would have gone there but he did leave money on the table when a team like Philly was drooling at the opportunity of stealing him away from the Knicks and had the cap to do it.lol - no disrespect meant. I actually engage you a little more bluntly because I really appreciate your perspective and you know your stuff
(I'm also fucking exhausted this week as my toddler is having problems breathing and my five year old has to get stitches and to put it into perspective, my wife and three nurses had to hold him down and could only do so after sedating him with way more stuff than I would've been comfortable approving)
In general, I think Randle is worth more than OG annually. Now, I prefer OG and value his contributions more than Randle's on this team tbh. That said Randle is good for 20/10/5 and he's the only one where Brunson can drop it off for someone else to do the creating
Lastly, I honestly don't care how much anyone on this team makes moving forward. Yeah I don't want any overpays but that is more about risk management. The bottom line is this is our team until contracts start to expire. I don't see how we add anyone outside of veteran minimum guys and draft picks. If Dolan is willing to post the luxury tax go gift it. Do with that in mind keep Randle and pay him because I don't know how you get his replacement on the roster
Well that sucks. Seems like all the bad stuff happens at the same time sometimes. I do miss those days though, it goes by to fast. I'm an empty nester as of this year. Kind of weird to hear someone say I know my stuff...my son would disagree with you 🤣. We talk Knicks all year round even though we live on opposite ends of the state now. We are definitely going to meet in the middle at a Kicks/Hornets game this season.
I kind of remember someone floating a number of 41/42M annually for Randle. That sounds about right to me although Randle could hold out for more. Randle is in a prove it year and I expect him to give 120% and make the argument he is a max player. Lets just hope he gets healthy and stays that way