Last season we held a 95.2 Pace which ranked 30th in the league. Which in the Knicks case was based on philosophy and roster construction.
With the lack of size and depth of bigmen going into the season, but a plethora of quality wings. Does the philosophy change to a more uptempo style? Outside of Mitch we aren't going to have strong rim protection. But will have the horses on the perimeter for spacing and pace.
Precious & Randle probably seeing backup C mins. This also leads to wanting to push the ball more and use more pace to take advantage of the quickness they hold for the position.
There will be the Brunson, Hart, Mikal, OG, Precious lineups that will have to focus on length, athleticism, swarming and high pace.
Is there a stat for what our pace was in the playoffs?
Maybe we aren't last but I expect us to be bottom 10 in pace again. Which is fine, Brunson plays a methodical half court game and so does Randle.
newyorknewyork wrote:Rookie wrote:Is there a stat for what our pace was in the playoffs?
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-pla...
12th out of 16. 91.88
Celtics were 11th.
At times very iso-centric style of play.
They were on pace to win a chip!!
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Rookie wrote:Is there a stat for what our pace was in the playoffs?
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-pla...
12th out of 16. 91.88
Celtics were 11th.
At times very iso-centric style of play.
They were on pace to win a chip!!
Pace of play doesn't mean bad or good.
Starting lineup which will see majority of the mins together will most likely maintain a slower pace playing elite defense & controlling the boards. 2-man game with Brunson & Randle, everyone else will eat off that gravity.
All the rotations if Mitch isn't in are built more for faster pace though. Wonder if that's how Thibs finesses it?
Pace is one of those stats that is not that informative by itself. It’s basically just minutes adjusted possessions per game. If you combine the Knicks offensive rebounds (not a new possession, extends shot clock) and defensive prowess (pushing opposing shot clock closer to 24), you get a low pace. But there are a ton of other factors that would increase pace. I doubt Pace has any direct effect on Win Loss.
Points Per Possession on the other hand…
EwingsGlass wrote:Pace is one of those stats that is not that informative by itself. It’s basically just minutes adjusted possessions per game. If you combine the Knicks offensive rebounds (not a new possession, extends shot clock) and defensive prowess (pushing opposing shot clock closer to 24), you get a low pace. But there are a ton of other factors that would increase pace. I doubt Pace has any direct effect on Win Loss. Points Per Possession on the other hand…
Right, plus the Knicks are a team that leans heavily on the Net rating stat to gauge performance.
Knicks have finished 30, 29, 25, and 30 in pace since Thibs took over. I'm guessing the Knicks will stay in that range. I'm interested in how offensive rebounds count as well. Do they count as a continuation of the possession or a new one？
gradyandrew wrote:Knicks have finished 30, 29, 25, and 30 in pace since Thibs took over. I'm guessing the Knicks will stay in that range. I'm interested in how offensive rebounds count as well. Do they count as a continuation of the possession or a new one？
Continuation of same possession. New possession requires change of control.
EwingsGlass wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knicks have finished 30, 29, 25, and 30 in pace since Thibs took over. I'm guessing the Knicks will stay in that range. I'm interested in how offensive rebounds count as well. Do they count as a continuation of the possession or a new one？
Continuation of same possession. New possession requires change of control.
So, leading the league in offensive rebounds has a pretty strong effect on Pace. I don't think this is a stat we really need to pay attention to.
gradyandrew wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knicks have finished 30, 29, 25, and 30 in pace since Thibs took over. I'm guessing the Knicks will stay in that range. I'm interested in how offensive rebounds count as well. Do they count as a continuation of the possession or a new one？
Continuation of same possession. New possession requires change of control.
So, leading the league in offensive rebounds has a pretty strong effect on Pace. I don't think this is a stat we really need to pay attention to.
7 of 10 teams at the bottom of Pace have a positive net rating vs. 5 of 10 at the top.
Almost every comment is about us being ranked 30th in the league in pace which clearly isn't the point of the post. We won 50 games last yr and was one game away from the ECC while dealing with some heavy injuries.
The thread and question is more about, due to basically swapping IHart with Mikal. Does Thibs look to emphasize his wings more with Mikal, OG, Hart, DDV while playing smaller at the C position. Thus also looking to operate at a faster pace?
Or does the pace remain the same even with the smaller lineups he will probably look to send out?
As mentioned earlier. I can see a Brunson, Hart, Mikal, OG, Precious lineup used more for trapping, intercepting passing lanes, forcing TOs for fast breaks.
gradyandrew wrote:gradyandrew wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knicks have finished 30, 29, 25, and 30 in pace since Thibs took over. I'm guessing the Knicks will stay in that range. I'm interested in how offensive rebounds count as well. Do they count as a continuation of the possession or a new one？
Continuation of same possession. New possession requires change of control.
So, leading the league in offensive rebounds has a pretty strong effect on Pace. I don't think this is a stat we really need to pay attention to.
7 of 10 teams at the bottom of Pace have a positive net rating vs. 5 of 10 at the top.
Exactly. Leading the league in turnovers and leading the league in steals would have a similar increase on pace. Giving up fast break points increases pace in a similar manner to scoring on fast breaks. Its not actually correlated with game outcome events. High offensive rebounding percentage and low defensive rebounding percentage have similar effects on pace. Until you roll it back to points per possession (and as Martin and you say, Net Rating) it really doesn't tell you much.
newyorknewyork wrote:Almost every comment is about us being ranked 30th in the league in pace which clearly isn't the point of the post. We won 50 games last yr and was one game away from the ECC while dealing with some heavy injuries. The thread and question is more about, due to basically swapping IHart with Mikal. Does Thibs look to emphasize his wings more with Mikal, OG, Hart, DDV while playing smaller at the C position. Thus also looking to operate at a faster pace?
Or does the pace remain the same even with the smaller lineups he will probably look to send out?
As mentioned earlier. I can see a Brunson, Hart, Mikal, OG, Precious lineup used more for trapping, intercepting passing lanes, forcing TOs for fast breaks.
Great questions.
Boils down to: Does more wing players - probably more Mikal, Precious, Deuce and less iHart/C - mean a different style of play ie. less rebounding?
And would the more wings over bigs affect pace? Or whatever the change would be for the roster composition
martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Almost every comment is about us being ranked 30th in the league in pace which clearly isn't the point of the post. We won 50 games last yr and was one game away from the ECC while dealing with some heavy injuries. The thread and question is more about, due to basically swapping IHart with Mikal. Does Thibs look to emphasize his wings more with Mikal, OG, Hart, DDV while playing smaller at the C position. Thus also looking to operate at a faster pace?
Or does the pace remain the same even with the smaller lineups he will probably look to send out?
As mentioned earlier. I can see a Brunson, Hart, Mikal, OG, Precious lineup used more for trapping, intercepting passing lanes, forcing TOs for fast breaks.
Great questions.
Boils down to: Does more wing players - probably more Mikal, Precious, Deuce and less iHart/C - mean a different style of play ie. less rebounding?
And would the more wings over bigs affect pace? Or whatever the change would be for the roster composition
Yes... there's currently a 0% chance we'll have rebounding numbers like last year.
But that shit costs 90 million clams.
DLeethal wrote:Maybe we aren't last but I expect us to be bottom 10 in pace again. Which is fine, Brunson plays a methodical half court game and so does Randle.
I wouldn't be surprised if we played at a faster pace next season because this roster is so stacked. We lost a lot of players to injuries last season, including Randle. Brunson did an admirable job of almost singlehandedly propping up the offense at times, but it doesn't look like he has to do that next season.
Randle has shown he can play uptempo. Before Brunson arrived, he was often grabbing a rebound, and leading a fastbreak, playing point forward.
Im guessing that Brunson's assist numbers are going to go up next season, because he has so much talent around him now. Doesn't have to work as hard to keep them in the game.
The new and improved second unit could play at a faster pace as well.
ToddTT wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Almost every comment is about us being ranked 30th in the league in pace which clearly isn't the point of the post. We won 50 games last yr and was one game away from the ECC while dealing with some heavy injuries. The thread and question is more about, due to basically swapping IHart with Mikal. Does Thibs look to emphasize his wings more with Mikal, OG, Hart, DDV while playing smaller at the C position. Thus also looking to operate at a faster pace?
Or does the pace remain the same even with the smaller lineups he will probably look to send out?
As mentioned earlier. I can see a Brunson, Hart, Mikal, OG, Precious lineup used more for trapping, intercepting passing lanes, forcing TOs for fast breaks.
Great questions.
Boils down to: Does more wing players - probably more Mikal, Precious, Deuce and less iHart/C - mean a different style of play ie. less rebounding?
And would the more wings over bigs affect pace? Or whatever the change would be for the roster composition
Yes... there's currently a 0% chance we'll have rebounding numbers like last year.
But that shit costs 90 million clams.
What if you are more of a mussels kind of guy?
Butter and garlic. Like lemon. White wine, some baguette? Meet Travolta and the boys for some salsa dancing after?
ToddTT wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Almost every comment is about us being ranked 30th in the league in pace which clearly isn't the point of the post. We won 50 games last yr and was one game away from the ECC while dealing with some heavy injuries. The thread and question is more about, due to basically swapping IHart with Mikal. Does Thibs look to emphasize his wings more with Mikal, OG, Hart, DDV while playing smaller at the C position. Thus also looking to operate at a faster pace?
Or does the pace remain the same even with the smaller lineups he will probably look to send out?
As mentioned earlier. I can see a Brunson, Hart, Mikal, OG, Precious lineup used more for trapping, intercepting passing lanes, forcing TOs for fast breaks.
Great questions.
Boils down to: Does more wing players - probably more Mikal, Precious, Deuce and less iHart/C - mean a different style of play ie. less rebounding?
And would the more wings over bigs affect pace? Or whatever the change would be for the roster composition
Yes... there's currently a 0% chance we'll have rebounding numbers like last year.
But that shit costs 90 million clams.
I mean. I think you are wrong. If you just look at Achiuwa’s per 36 to iHart’s per 36, they are very similar 10 and 10 to 11 and 11.
I think we will be fine. Especially if Robinson is healthy.
