Knicks · Knicks traded for Towns (finally official 10/1) (page 35)

VDesai @ 10/3/2024 5:44 PM
Knicks may have "overpaid" in trades, but they got back the type of talent they needed. But they had the luxury to give talent to get talent because they essentially "underpaid" in FA in the draft to the talent they got. Randle, Brunson, Donte all out played their contracts and Quickley overplayed his draft position, which allowed them to have the resources to obtain "expensive" talent. They used the draft in a way to stockpile additional resources without losing out on good talent when they needed it. It has been a masterclass in resource management and also coaching and development.
fishmike @ 10/3/2024 5:52 PM
VDesai wrote:Knicks may have "overpaid" in trades, but they got back the type of talent they needed. But they had the luxury to give talent to get talent because they essentially "underpaid" in FA in the draft to the talent they got. Randle, Brunson, Donte all out played their contracts and Quickley overplayed his draft position, which allowed them to have the resources to obtain "expensive" talent. They used the draft in a way to stockpile additional resources without losing out on good talent when they needed it. It has been a masterclass in resource management and also coaching and development.
this... and not perfect or wildly lucky. Fournier, Kemba, Cam Reddish... what makes these guys so good is their ability to pivot and fix something that didnt work.
martin @ 10/3/2024 7:12 PM
Man, some of this is kinda luck. Didn’t realize this. ~38 minute mark. DDV’s second choice last offseason after Knicks was with Twolves.

Knicks get him for free and consolidate and trade him right to TWolves.

HofstraBBall @ 10/3/2024 9:27 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Well... At least he doesn't spin while turning the ball over.

Thought you hated Randle?
Or just hate KAT? More
Trade?


Don't worry. You'll know when my hate reaches it's ultimate peak.

https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

Nalod @ 10/3/2024 11:01 PM
The wolves might have "balanced their roster". I agree. Great trade for them!!!!
Knicks balanced their clumsy roster also.

Talking heads can't all agree and they can all say what they want but in time it all gets sorted out on the court!
Both teams might win this trade. Not all trades have losers.

gradyandrew @ 10/3/2024 11:26 PM
Who won the Haliburton- Sabonis trade? Both teams had different roster and cap needs, I don’t think it was a win- lose proposition. Hopefully it will be a win- win.
BigDaddyG @ 10/4/2024 12:12 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Well... At least he doesn't spin while turning the ball over.

Thought you hated Randle?
Or just hate KAT? More
Trade?


Don't worry. You'll know when my hate reaches it's ultimate peak.

https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

jaydh @ 10/4/2024 5:59 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

franco12 @ 10/4/2024 7:26 AM
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

I’m pretty sure we could have afforded him, we just had another player we thought fit better.


For Minny - part of what I am reading/seeing is they were after cap space, which means Randle might not stay there, depending on who opts in to options vs. doesn’t.

jaydh @ 10/4/2024 7:49 AM
I don't see how we max out Randle and keep Bridges. Signing Randle to a max deal and keeping DDV would put next yr around $205mil, maybe more. They prob would have struggled to get under the 2nd apron before being penalized whereas now they are set up beautifully.
martin @ 10/4/2024 9:15 AM
From the Hanh

https://www.twitter.com/alanhahn/status/...


The Year of the KAT officially has begun.

(The old heads might get that reference to a 1970's song by Al Stewart that is now a yacht rock staple. Yes, everyone settle in. This is going to be a throwback "Knicks Fix" blog that I'm writing right from the Hot Tub Time Machine).

Karl-Anthony Towns arrived for his first training camp practice officially as a Knick and said he made sure to find Jalen Brunson right away.

"My name is Karl," he said to the Knicks captain.

"I know it was a struggle for him," he then said, trying hard to keep a deadpan expression.

It was Brunson who, at Monday's Media Day when the trade had been reported but not yet officially done, jokingly responded to questions about Towns by saying, "Karl? Who's Karl?"

But everyone knows the man known as KAT is no stray when it comes to his new team. He's another longtime member of the family, from his New Jersey roots to his CAA connections with Leon Rose, William Wesley and, yes, coached by John Calipari at Kentucky.

And there's also the two-and-a-half seasons he spent being coached by Tom Thibodeau in Minnesota. It was still very early in his career, but statistically it was Towns' best years. He played 82 games each in the first two seasons, averaged 23 and 12, was named to his first two of his four all-star appearances and the first of his two All-NBA selections.

Their history wasn't all positive, but their relationship didn't crumble after Thibs was fired midway through that third season, in 2018-19. At that time, Towns said he was just telling the coaching staff how happy he was to have some stability with the franchise and the system. A week later, Thibs was fired. Towns reacted by saying, "I jinxed it."

A lot of stories came about after that and much of it involved Jimmy Butler's aggressive tactics in practice that was tearing the team apart and accusations that the coach didn't hold Butler accountable and let him overwhelm young players like Towns and Andrew Wiggins. So after Thibs left, he toured the NBA and spent time with other teams and coaching staffs and saw that he had to change some of his ways.

One area he focused on more than ever was relationships with players. Towns was one of the players he kept a connection.

"Over the years you just learn a lot about each other," Towns said of his relationship with Thibs, "and obviously our relationship has been good."

Thibodeau said there is a benefit to their history together as player and coach and also the off-the-court connection the maintained after Thibs' departure from Minnesota. But he also said that was six years ago. Thibs has grown as a coach and KAT has grown as a player and a person.

"He's in a different place," Thibs said, "he's a different player."

But even Towns had to admit the familiarity definitely helps him hit the ground running despite the sudden change at the start of training camp. It is his first experience being traded and to do it literally when camp begins and a new season awaits is a tough transition for anybody.

So knowing the coach, the team and what is expected "gives us a little bit of a head start. I know the offense that he runs, I know the way he likes to play defense and I know what he expects from his players."

Towns also knows this is Brunson's team. He was careful with his words when asked about making Madison Square Garden, a place his mother adored, "his" home, he quickly corrected, "It's OUR home."

Towns lost his mother, Jacqueline, due to complications from COVID in April 2020. He often references her and how she came to the U.S. from the Dominican Republic. He has several relatives from her side of the family who live in the New York area and said, "The Dominicans are excited" because of the trade.

Jackie, who worked as a nurse at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, was a Knicks fan and attended games at the Garden, a place she fondly called, "The Mecca."

She met Karl Towns, who played college basketball at Monmouth College in the early 1980s and had a training camp invite with the Knicks all those years ago.

Towns' Knicks roots run that deep.

But this is no "I'm Coming Home" type arrival like it was for Carmelo Anthony back in 2011. Melo arrived to join Amar'e Stoudemire but it quickly became Melo's team. Towns is, indeed, coming home, but he isn't bringing that same energy. He's already learned how to share the spotlight -- and concede it -- from the emergence of Anthony Edwards with the Timberwolves.

That's why it was noteworthy that Towns used the word "amplify" several times when describing how he can fit with Brunson and his role on the team.

"I'm just here to amplify everybody as much as possible," he said.

The belief within the team -- the players have been buzzing about it all weekend -- is that Towns can amplify an offense that last season had some big moments (January) and was 7th in the NBA in Offensive Rating but was 19th in scoring, 20th in Field Goal Percentage and 13th in Three Point Shooting.

Thibs also pointed out that the loss of Isaiah Hartenstein to free agency and the injury to Mitchell Robinson (offseason ankle surgery, may not be back until December/January) created a major hole in the middle.

"We had a need, obviously, at the center position so that was the driving force behind [the trade]," he said.

And while Hartenstein had a great season and Randle's offensive production is all-star level, the Knicks get a combination of the two in one player. They now have a starting five that many around the league see as potentially one of the best in the NBA and one that is much more suited to challenge the defending champion Celtics.

"Excited to have KAT," Thibs said. "To be able to get a player of his stature is huge . . . He does it all."

gradyandrew @ 10/4/2024 10:11 AM
I just watched an SBnation Beef video on Jimmy Butler and the Timberwolves. I didn't realize how central KAT was to that drama. Those matchups with the Heat will be really important this season.
HofstraBBall @ 10/4/2024 2:07 PM
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

HofstraBBall @ 10/4/2024 2:12 PM
martin @ 10/4/2024 2:58 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

The Knicks positioning of their cap is one of the best in the NBA, so I’d say their flexibility is very very good.

newyorknewyork @ 10/4/2024 3:10 PM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

The Knicks positioning of their cap is one of the best in the NBA, so I’d say their flexibility is very very good.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantopore...

Here's a way to put it into perspective: If the cap rises the maximum 10% annually beginning in 2025-26, it's projected to be roughly $206.4 million in 2028-29. A free agent who signs a five-year, 25% max deal with his own team this summer—say, Philadelphia 76ers point guard Tyrese Maxey—will be earning $46.5 million in 2028-29, which will be only 22.5% of the cap that year.

The drop-off gets even more stark with higher-value maxes. A player who signs a 30% max this summer—Indiana Pacers forward Pascal Siakam, perhaps?—will be earning $55.8 million in 2028-29. That's projected to be only 27.0% of the cap that year. And a player who signs a 35% max will earn $65.1 million in 2028-29, which is projected to be only 31.6% of that year's cap.

In essence, players signed to long-term deals this summer are projected to take up a slightly smaller percentage of the cap with each passing year thanks to the new national TV deals. It'll be a few years before teams can begin to take advantage of that additional flexibility, but it could provide some much-needed relief to teams that currently find themselves in dire financial straits.
foosballnick @ 10/4/2024 4:00 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

I feel much the same way about cap management/flexibility. But I think I've been biased from years and years of Knicks roster and cap mis-management and continual rebuild. Also seems that salary flex is more important for a roster that is still under construction or in build mode (i.e. the Knicks over the past 3-4 years). The moves this off-season have made it clear Leon is going All-In during JB's prime with their top 6-7 players. Some may not be happy with the roster (I am) - but I imagine at some point as a GM you have to just rip the band aid off. Like it or not, we're now in contender mode on a 4 year plan with core guys all still young enough that they won't be ancient at the end of this run. All these core players are also tradeable - so the contingency in case of derailment will be to trade guys for expiring and picks followed by a re-build.

Most of the contending teams the Knicks will face all have similar dilemmas. Celtics will be paying Tatem and Brown a combined $130M+ when they are in their 30s and a 38 year old Holiday will be making over $37M. A 38 year old Paul George will be making $57M with a gimpy 35 year old Embiid likely hitting close to $70M. Lillard at 36 will be over $58M. Siakem at 34 years old will be making over $52M. These examples are the price for going all-in. Even teams that are near contention and a bit more cap flexibility such as the Cavs and Pacers are over the first Apron and will have to make key decisions to avoid the 2nd apron over the next several years. The main team I can come up with who avoided this is OKC - but that was after years of stockpiling picks, striking is rich with SGA coupled with making a few selections near the top over the past 4 years.

Uptown @ 10/4/2024 4:11 PM
foosballnick wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

I feel much the same way about cap management/flexibility. But I think I've been biased from years and years of Knicks roster and cap mis-management and continual rebuild. Also seems that salary flex is more important for a roster that is still under construction or in build mode (i.e. the Knicks over the past 3-4 years). The moves this off-season have made it clear Leon is going All-In during JB's prime with their top 6-7 players. Some may not be happy with the roster (I am) - but I imagine at some point as a GM you have to just rip the band aid off. Like it or not, we're now in contender mode on a 4 year plan with core guys all still young enough that they won't be ancient at the end of this run. All these core players are also tradeable - so the contingency in case of derailment will be to trade guys for expiring and picks followed by a re-build.

Most of the contending teams the Knicks will face all have similar dilemmas. Celtics will be paying Tatem and Brown a combined $130M+ when they are in their 30s and a 38 year old Holiday will be making over $37M. A 38 year old Paul George will be making $57M with a gimpy 35 year old Embiid likely hitting close to $70M. Lillard at 36 will be over $58M. Siakem at 34 years old will be making over $52M. These examples are the price for going all-in. Even teams that are near contention and a bit more cap flexibility such as the Cavs and Pacers are over the first Apron and will have to make key decisions to avoid the 2nd apron over the next several years. The main team I can come up with who avoided this is OKC - but that was after years of stockpiling picks, striking is rich with SGA coupled with making a few selections near the top over the past 4 years.

Good Post!!

HofstraBBall @ 10/4/2024 7:37 PM
foosballnick wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

I feel much the same way about cap management/flexibility. But I think I've been biased from years and years of Knicks roster and cap mis-management and continual rebuild. Also seems that salary flex is more important for a roster that is still under construction or in build mode (i.e. the Knicks over the past 3-4 years). The moves this off-season have made it clear Leon is going All-In during JB's prime with their top 6-7 players. Some may not be happy with the roster (I am) - but I imagine at some point as a GM you have to just rip the band aid off. Like it or not, we're now in contender mode on a 4 year plan with core guys all still young enough that they won't be ancient at the end of this run. All these core players are also tradeable - so the contingency in case of derailment will be to trade guys for expiring and picks followed by a re-build.

Most of the contending teams the Knicks will face all have similar dilemmas. Celtics will be paying Tatem and Brown a combined $130M+ when they are in their 30s and a 38 year old Holiday will be making over $37M. A 38 year old Paul George will be making $57M with a gimpy 35 year old Embiid likely hitting close to $70M. Lillard at 36 will be over $58M. Siakem at 34 years old will be making over $52M. These examples are the price for going all-in. Even teams that are near contention and a bit more cap flexibility such as the Cavs and Pacers are over the first Apron and will have to make key decisions to avoid the 2nd apron over the next several years. The main team I can come up with who avoided this is OKC - but that was after years of stockpiling picks, striking is rich with SGA coupled with making a few selections near the top over the past 4 years.

Agree with the fact most elite teams are in same situation.
Agree that the Knicks have gone “All in”
Concern is if KAT and an injury prone player is worth that “All in”?
Hoping they are.

fishmike @ 10/4/2024 7:53 PM
Uptown wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

I feel much the same way about cap management/flexibility. But I think I've been biased from years and years of Knicks roster and cap mis-management and continual rebuild. Also seems that salary flex is more important for a roster that is still under construction or in build mode (i.e. the Knicks over the past 3-4 years). The moves this off-season have made it clear Leon is going All-In during JB's prime with their top 6-7 players. Some may not be happy with the roster (I am) - but I imagine at some point as a GM you have to just rip the band aid off. Like it or not, we're now in contender mode on a 4 year plan with core guys all still young enough that they won't be ancient at the end of this run. All these core players are also tradeable - so the contingency in case of derailment will be to trade guys for expiring and picks followed by a re-build.

Most of the contending teams the Knicks will face all have similar dilemmas. Celtics will be paying Tatem and Brown a combined $130M+ when they are in their 30s and a 38 year old Holiday will be making over $37M. A 38 year old Paul George will be making $57M with a gimpy 35 year old Embiid likely hitting close to $70M. Lillard at 36 will be over $58M. Siakem at 34 years old will be making over $52M. These examples are the price for going all-in. Even teams that are near contention and a bit more cap flexibility such as the Cavs and Pacers are over the first Apron and will have to make key decisions to avoid the 2nd apron over the next several years. The main team I can come up with who avoided this is OKC - but that was after years of stockpiling picks, striking is rich with SGA coupled with making a few selections near the top over the past 4 years.


Good Post!!
yeah he nailed it. What we have is really special. So many teams have such short windows. We have a legit 4 years of Brunson/Josh/OG/Mikal/KAT, not to mention McBride's 3 year deal starts now and he's cheaper than a lottery pick.

Wild turnover as predicted but we end up with a very likable squad with a great coach and FO. I am so ready for this :)

fishmike @ 10/4/2024 7:58 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
jaydh wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...

So shortsighted these execs are. Again... after the season is over and Randle walks because we can't afford him, how was the team going to fill that gap? This move isn't about this year, it's about the next 4.

Agreed. It’s about the next 4.
Think that was the point of some saying Minny was in a better position.
Cuz KAT will be making $60 in 3 years. Often hurt OG $42 Million? How is that for Cap flexibility?
Hopefully KAT is the one.

I feel much the same way about cap management/flexibility. But I think I've been biased from years and years of Knicks roster and cap mis-management and continual rebuild. Also seems that salary flex is more important for a roster that is still under construction or in build mode (i.e. the Knicks over the past 3-4 years). The moves this off-season have made it clear Leon is going All-In during JB's prime with their top 6-7 players. Some may not be happy with the roster (I am) - but I imagine at some point as a GM you have to just rip the band aid off. Like it or not, we're now in contender mode on a 4 year plan with core guys all still young enough that they won't be ancient at the end of this run. All these core players are also tradeable - so the contingency in case of derailment will be to trade guys for expiring and picks followed by a re-build.

Most of the contending teams the Knicks will face all have similar dilemmas. Celtics will be paying Tatem and Brown a combined $130M+ when they are in their 30s and a 38 year old Holiday will be making over $37M. A 38 year old Paul George will be making $57M with a gimpy 35 year old Embiid likely hitting close to $70M. Lillard at 36 will be over $58M. Siakem at 34 years old will be making over $52M. These examples are the price for going all-in. Even teams that are near contention and a bit more cap flexibility such as the Cavs and Pacers are over the first Apron and will have to make key decisions to avoid the 2nd apron over the next several years. The main team I can come up with who avoided this is OKC - but that was after years of stockpiling picks, striking is rich with SGA coupled with making a few selections near the top over the past 4 years.

Agree with the fact most elite teams are in same situation.
Agree that the Knicks have gone “All in”
Concern is if KAT and an injury prone player is worth that “All in”?
Hoping they are.

Look at Denver. The won a chip. Legit. Amazing stuff right. They do not win it without Murray and Porter JR. Two guys who have missed massive chunks of seasons etc.

Worth it?

IDK if this FO is done or not... but with Mitch easing into team winning a bunch of games there's a CHANCE we hit the postseason with a rotation that looks like Brunson/Mikal/Josh/OG/KAT with MbBride and Mitch being the bench goons.

Imagine we had that squad vs. the Pacers? Shit's a sweep and I would love to see KP trying to chase KAT around while Mikal/OG/Josh crawl up the asses of Tatum and Brown

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