Knicks · The Mitch Robinson thing.... (page 2)
Knixkik wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?He would have to be a better player and make the same money or less. How many guys out there really fit that criteria? Not many (or maybe any.)
Yeah that's the real problem . I don't know what scenario exists that allows the Knicks to get equal value in a McBride trade. His salary rivals Donte's. That's not a small thing considering we're pinned up at the second apron.
GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
Good point, but who knows when Mitch and Shamet will be good to go. Mitch's availability in the postseason would be a big question mark. Besides, we have a Huk...porti. Shamet is still an unknown when it comes to what he can bring to the team, beyond the preseason.
I'd rather make a deal involving Deuce and Mitch for versatile wing, playoff proven, and give Kolek the PT this season to get him ready to be a distributor for a playoff run. The kind of distributor that Deuce has yet to show he can be. As I said upthread, I get the feeling that Cam is going to be feast or famine for us.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
Good point, but who knows when Mitch and Shamet will be good to go. Mitch's availability in the postseason would be a big question mark. Besides, we have a Huk...porti. Shamet is still an unknown when it comes to what he can bring to the team, beyond the preseason.
I'd rather make a deal involving Deuce and Mitch for versatile wing, playoff proven, and give Kolek the PT this season to get him ready to be a distributor for a playoff run. The kind of distributor that Deuce has yet to show he can be. As I said upthread, I get the feeling that Cam is going to be feast or famine for us.
Your wishing upon a star without salary implications, Kolek is not battle tested. You don't know what heh can or cannot do. Besides,
Goin' all Rose Royce. We know what they make. We know that Mitch's contract doesnt run much longer. We know that Aller is a cap genius. If anyone can make it doable its him.
Agree that Kolek isnt tested, only way to test him is to give the rook the minutes. Thibs trusted Quickley enough to make him backup PG early on in his career, and he wasnt as skilled a distributor as Kolek.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
Good point, but who knows when Mitch and Shamet will be good to go. Mitch's availability in the postseason would be a big question mark. Besides, we have a Huk...porti. Shamet is still an unknown when it comes to what he can bring to the team, beyond the preseason.
I'd rather make a deal involving Deuce and Mitch for versatile wing, playoff proven, and give Kolek the PT this season to get him ready to be a distributor for a playoff run. The kind of distributor that Deuce has yet to show he can be. As I said upthread, I get the feeling that Cam is going to be feast or famine for us.
Short sample about Cam. Its ok when he is doing well but as you said not much in between. Has that face that is not quite that endearing. Kolek is not battle tested and I'll defer to Thibs and staff as to when he is ready. Preseason was nice but the circumstances were not real games. There is a real timeline as Martins suggests and it takes time to gel.
There are also salary implications with the cap that perhaps are best addressed at or near trade deadline. If the team is truly has the look of a contender its one thing. If not, FO might not want to push all the chips in quite yet.
Remember, its not if Huk can be back up, but can he actually start when KAT needs games off.
Im not moving Mitch so fast.
winning a chip is not just about the starting 5. its about FO ability to field a bench on a budget.
Its where Denver failed last season. its where Miami usually succeeds. Boston go it right last year.
OKC window is with Yoot. Its why they had the gap and did the two year with iHart. This CBA creates challenges.
Shamet was a good find at a good price! Matt Ryan might be also.
We did good locking Deuce. Such a good player at that price!
I like the idea if rooted in reality of trading Deuce straight up for Kessler and perhaps moving Mitch with a rook or pick for a player who come off the bench and score at the 2 with more size. An Alec Burks type at 13mm salary. Trading deuce creates a hole.
Funny that DDV is that salary level!! Ok, maybe not funny. Too soon?
Knicks either develop the solutions in house, heal thy injuries, or keep dealing with savvy!
Treading water is an option to see how the injuries and development pan but fans usually see it as FO apathy and want reassurance.
Media won't help you. Nalod will but offer no guarantee to if and when.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
Good point, but who knows when Mitch and Shamet will be good to go. Mitch's availability in the postseason would be a big question mark. Besides, we have a Huk...porti. Shamet is still an unknown when it comes to what he can bring to the team, beyond the preseason.
I'd rather make a deal involving Deuce and Mitch for versatile wing, playoff proven, and give Kolek the PT this season to get him ready to be a distributor for a playoff run. The kind of distributor that Deuce has yet to show he can be. As I said upthread, I get the feeling that Cam is going to be feast or famine for us.
Your wishing upon a star without salary implications, Kolek is not battle tested. You don't know what heh can or cannot do. Besides,
Goin' all Rose Royce. We know what they make. We know that Mitch's contract doesnt run much longer. We know that Aller is a cap genius. If anyone can make it doable its him.
Agree that Kolek isnt tested, only way to test him is to give the rook the minutes. Thibs trusted Quickley enough to make him backup PG early on in his career, and he wasnt as skilled a distributor as Kolek.
Yeah but it was a three year process and IQ could shoot early on. His playmaking was deficient and he got the quick hook if you recall. Quick was 19 knicks were not as solid as they are now. Way different team construction and expectation. Quick also had to two the line on defense which got him yanked. Kolek is more polished but lateral movement and foot speed is what it is. IQ for two years did not have Brunson ahead of him. Its as about RJ, Toppin and Him all growing up on the development side. Deuce emerged to warrant IQ expendable given his salary expectations. Context is important here when looking back. Kolek needs to hit that floater and mid range against real NBA players others there is not open men to pass to when penetrating. Im hoping that occurs as Im not loving Cam yet. Maybe its his face? LOL...... Kolek looks like he 80's movie asshole captain of football team dating airhead cheerleader. But he is a knick so we rooting for him!
Knicks like lots of teams have holes and things to work out. Its not just Knicks.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
Good point, but who knows when Mitch and Shamet will be good to go. Mitch's availability in the postseason would be a big question mark. Besides, we have a Huk...porti. Shamet is still an unknown when it comes to what he can bring to the team, beyond the preseason.
I'd rather make a deal involving Deuce and Mitch for versatile wing, playoff proven, and give Kolek the PT this season to get him ready to be a distributor for a playoff run. The kind of distributor that Deuce has yet to show he can be. As I said upthread, I get the feeling that Cam is going to be feast or famine for us.
Your wishing upon a star without salary implications, Kolek is not battle tested. You don't know what heh can or cannot do. Besides,
Goin' all Rose Royce. We know what they make. We know that Mitch's contract doesnt run much longer. We know that Aller is a cap genius. If anyone can make it doable its him.
Agree that Kolek isnt tested, only way to test him is to give the rook the minutes. Thibs trusted Quickley enough to make him backup PG early on in his career, and he wasnt as skilled a distributor as Kolek.
Yeah but it was a three year process and IQ could shoot early on. His playmaking was deficient and he got the quick hook if you recall. Quick was 19 knicks were not as solid as they are now. Way different team construction and expectation. Quick also had to two the line on defense which got him yanked. Kolek is more polished but lateral movement and foot speed is what it is. IQ for two years did not have Brunson ahead of him. Its as about RJ, Toppin and Him all growing up on the development side. Deuce emerged to warrant IQ expendable given his salary expectations. Context is important here when looking back. Kolek needs to hit that floater and mid range against real NBA players others there is not open men to pass to when penetrating. Im hoping that occurs as Im not loving Cam yet. Maybe its his face? LOL...... Kolek looks like he 80's movie asshole captain of football team dating airhead cheerleader. But he is a knick so we rooting for him!
Knicks like lots of teams have holes and things to work out. Its not just Knicks.
IQ had a runner, thats about it. We dont have a legit playmaker in the 2nd unit. Kolek might be the best we have on the entire roster. He needs seasoning. If Thibs thinks he's ready for the opportunity to spend time in the rotation, I'd like to see him get the chance.
It would free up the FO to make some moves if Kolek shows something early. Hopefully not Cleanthony Early ha ha.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
Good point, but who knows when Mitch and Shamet will be good to go. Mitch's availability in the postseason would be a big question mark. Besides, we have a Huk...porti. Shamet is still an unknown when it comes to what he can bring to the team, beyond the preseason.
I'd rather make a deal involving Deuce and Mitch for versatile wing, playoff proven, and give Kolek the PT this season to get him ready to be a distributor for a playoff run. The kind of distributor that Deuce has yet to show he can be. As I said upthread, I get the feeling that Cam is going to be feast or famine for us.
Your wishing upon a star without salary implications, Kolek is not battle tested. You don't know what heh can or cannot do. Besides,
Goin' all Rose Royce. We know what they make. We know that Mitch's contract doesnt run much longer. We know that Aller is a cap genius. If anyone can make it doable its him.
Agree that Kolek isnt tested, only way to test him is to give the rook the minutes. Thibs trusted Quickley enough to make him backup PG early on in his career, and he wasnt as skilled a distributor as Kolek.
Yeah but it was a three year process and IQ could shoot early on. His playmaking was deficient and he got the quick hook if you recall. Quick was 19 knicks were not as solid as they are now. Way different team construction and expectation. Quick also had to two the line on defense which got him yanked. Kolek is more polished but lateral movement and foot speed is what it is. IQ for two years did not have Brunson ahead of him. Its as about RJ, Toppin and Him all growing up on the development side. Deuce emerged to warrant IQ expendable given his salary expectations. Context is important here when looking back. Kolek needs to hit that floater and mid range against real NBA players others there is not open men to pass to when penetrating. Im hoping that occurs as Im not loving Cam yet. Maybe its his face? LOL...... Kolek looks like he 80's movie asshole captain of football team dating airhead cheerleader. But he is a knick so we rooting for him!
Knicks like lots of teams have holes and things to work out. Its not just Knicks.
IQ had a runner, thats about it. We dont have a legit playmaker in the 2nd unit. Kolek might be the best we have on the entire roster. He needs seasoning. If Thibs thinks he's ready for the opportunity to spend time in the rotation, I'd like to see him get the chance.
It would free up the FO to make some moves if Kolek shows something early. Hopefully not Cleanthony Early ha ha.
Yeah, the last thing we need is for Kolek to get shot and robbed at a strip club in the Bronx.
martin wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.
Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.
For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.
Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?
No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.
Let me follow this up.
Mitch for Herb Jones swap is a tough swallow for both teams. For NOP, it’s the fact that Mitch has missed so much time and he is out right now. For NY, they know Mitch’s potential impact on not only games but full on playoff series, and he plays a position and role that Knicks are thin, they would want something back to replace those things that Mitch brings or they would want to fortify enough of those other areas from which they are getting in the return so that the trade makes sense.
I don’t know this for sure but I’d guess that GM and those types do value long term regular season availability, there should be little no doubt there. Herb Jones is a high end version of that as he is a well defined defender and well know offense player (spacer, cutter, not high offensive impact but very capable and within a role). Is he playoff capable and impactful? TBD. The TBD part is more when not if and that’ll be the risk part on the other end of the trade.
With Mitch, you KNOW he can impact a full playoff game or series. The risk is availability.
There is a reason GM’s sign Embiid, PG, Harden, etc. to insane contracts even with their well documented risk: cause they can impact when it really matters. Those GM/Pres types barely care if those players are available during the regular season (although they know the impact on team and are constantly mitigating), their dollars are (mostly or more typically) earned in other ways, both in terms of playoffs or other non basketball direct things. That last sentence is a big give or take grey area for every team and their situation and would change year to year, think luxury tax, cap situation, playoff versus tank team, etc.
Most GM/Pres types in this swap scenario would care more at a playoff impact level than on the availability side of things in terms with Mitch. This is the guess part for me.
IMHO Leon would never trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb Jones because even in an injury situation, he is losing 2 playoff trust guys for Thibs and not getting enough back that cover what he is potentially losing (middle depth). So maybe Yves Missi mitigates.
Something like that. I’d guess that’s what Leon is thinking in that situation.
On the other side of the coin, Zion has not made a playoffs appearance and the Pelicans have been bereft of a playoff series win since 2017-18. They have won exactly 1 playoff series since 2009. It’s nearly 2025 and that’s when desperation meets an insane trade that could be exploited by Leon.
I don't doubt N.O. being interested in adding Mitch --- but would assume 1) they would offer less attractive pieces or 2) demand more than Mitch for Herb.
Don't see them going Herb/Missi for Mitch/Deuce but I'd be down for that.
Tend to think if Knicks had big plans for Mitch they would have kept Randle/Donte --- no idea if I'm right or not.
BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Right, plus the obvious answer is Josh Hart to the bench, with Mikal and OG fluidly being able to switch in between SG/SF/PF.
These things don't have to be complicated. All those years with Manu or Kevin McHale didn't hurt no one. This is what having a professional, well run team does for you. You have options.
I agree with what to do in the meantime, but I still believe we need to add more bench depth. One concern would be OG getting too many minutes. He was near the top of the league in minutes for Toronto, also was near the top of the league in the number of injuries he suffered, while he was there.
Making sure that he's as healthy as can be is crucial for a successful playoff run. Adding more depth to the bench would mean less work for the starters. I believe they led the league last season in minutes played.
You mean bench depth like Precious and Mitch and Shamet?
Good point, but who knows when Mitch and Shamet will be good to go. Mitch's availability in the postseason would be a big question mark. Besides, we have a Huk...porti. Shamet is still an unknown when it comes to what he can bring to the team, beyond the preseason.
I'd rather make a deal involving Deuce and Mitch for versatile wing, playoff proven, and give Kolek the PT this season to get him ready to be a distributor for a playoff run. The kind of distributor that Deuce has yet to show he can be. As I said upthread, I get the feeling that Cam is going to be feast or famine for us.
Your wishing upon a star without salary implications, Kolek is not battle tested. You don't know what heh can or cannot do. Besides,
Goin' all Rose Royce. We know what they make. We know that Mitch's contract doesnt run much longer. We know that Aller is a cap genius. If anyone can make it doable its him.
Agree that Kolek isnt tested, only way to test him is to give the rook the minutes. Thibs trusted Quickley enough to make him backup PG early on in his career, and he wasnt as skilled a distributor as Kolek.
Yeah but it was a three year process and IQ could shoot early on. His playmaking was deficient and he got the quick hook if you recall. Quick was 19 knicks were not as solid as they are now. Way different team construction and expectation. Quick also had to two the line on defense which got him yanked. Kolek is more polished but lateral movement and foot speed is what it is. IQ for two years did not have Brunson ahead of him. Its as about RJ, Toppin and Him all growing up on the development side. Deuce emerged to warrant IQ expendable given his salary expectations. Context is important here when looking back. Kolek needs to hit that floater and mid range against real NBA players others there is not open men to pass to when penetrating. Im hoping that occurs as Im not loving Cam yet. Maybe its his face? LOL...... Kolek looks like he 80's movie asshole captain of football team dating airhead cheerleader. But he is a knick so we rooting for him!
Knicks like lots of teams have holes and things to work out. Its not just Knicks.
IQ had a runner, thats about it. We dont have a legit playmaker in the 2nd unit. Kolek might be the best we have on the entire roster. He needs seasoning. If Thibs thinks he's ready for the opportunity to spend time in the rotation, I'd like to see him get the chance.
It would free up the FO to make some moves if Kolek shows something early. Hopefully not Cleanthony Early ha ha.
Yeah, the last thing we need is for Kolek to get shot and robbed at a strip club in the Bronx.
More like a shoving match at the Malt shop
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.
Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.
For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.
Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?
No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.
Let me follow this up.
Mitch for Herb Jones swap is a tough swallow for both teams. For NOP, it’s the fact that Mitch has missed so much time and he is out right now. For NY, they know Mitch’s potential impact on not only games but full on playoff series, and he plays a position and role that Knicks are thin, they would want something back to replace those things that Mitch brings or they would want to fortify enough of those other areas from which they are getting in the return so that the trade makes sense.
I don’t know this for sure but I’d guess that GM and those types do value long term regular season availability, there should be little no doubt there. Herb Jones is a high end version of that as he is a well defined defender and well know offense player (spacer, cutter, not high offensive impact but very capable and within a role). Is he playoff capable and impactful? TBD. The TBD part is more when not if and that’ll be the risk part on the other end of the trade.
With Mitch, you KNOW he can impact a full playoff game or series. The risk is availability.
There is a reason GM’s sign Embiid, PG, Harden, etc. to insane contracts even with their well documented risk: cause they can impact when it really matters. Those GM/Pres types barely care if those players are available during the regular season (although they know the impact on team and are constantly mitigating), their dollars are (mostly or more typically) earned in other ways, both in terms of playoffs or other non basketball direct things. That last sentence is a big give or take grey area for every team and their situation and would change year to year, think luxury tax, cap situation, playoff versus tank team, etc.
Most GM/Pres types in this swap scenario would care more at a playoff impact level than on the availability side of things in terms with Mitch. This is the guess part for me.
IMHO Leon would never trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb Jones because even in an injury situation, he is losing 2 playoff trust guys for Thibs and not getting enough back that cover what he is potentially losing (middle depth). So maybe Yves Missi mitigates.
Something like that. I’d guess that’s what Leon is thinking in that situation.
On the other side of the coin, Zion has not made a playoffs appearance and the Pelicans have been bereft of a playoff series win since 2017-18. They have won exactly 1 playoff series since 2009. It’s nearly 2025 and that’s when desperation meets an insane trade that could be exploited by Leon.
I don't doubt N.O. being interested in adding Mitch --- but would assume 1) they would offer less attractive pieces or 2) demand more than Mitch for Herb.Don't see them going Herb/Missi for Mitch/Deuce but I'd be down for that.
Tend to think if Knicks had big plans for Mitch they would have kept Randle/Donte --- no idea if I'm right or not.
Only because Knicks will ask for at least 3 first rounders for any trade involving Deuce!