Knicks · The Mitch Robinson thing.... (page 1)
60mil, started over 17mil, next year under 13mil!
other teams do shit like this but Aller works it.
Good for players to get more sooner. Time value of money.
Good for teams, more cap space.
Knick season is 82 games. Be nice to get a good seed but key is not meeting the top team until conf. finals. Lets assume thats Boston.
They sandbagging KP for its run. Makes sense.
Mitch? He needs 30 games to shake the rust and get that instincts back. He wants to win, but also wants leverage for next year when he is in a contract year.
He is easy a 20mil per year player if healthy. Does he gamble on himself and go full free agent?
How does he or Knicks value him to extend if so desired?
Putting contract bonuses is correct based on games played but it can really mess up a teams cap if close to an apron.
This guy could be a force if healthy thru a playoff run.
OR trade bait.
Or, ride it out and let him walk but we get season and a half while developing or trading for a new back up.
Not like other teams will not have the same choices. Im sure he wants to be in NOLA close to home. They would face the same issues regarding his health.
His trade value might not be great unless its to a contending team that needs a back up at a good price. Thats us!
Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.
Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.
For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.
Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.
Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.
For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.
Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?
No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.
They are nearly non existant at the 5. They need Mitch and if not him will have to pay a stiff price for a quality starting forward.
Again, he is on a very friendly contract. Can he stay on the court healthy? His history is not good. nor is Zions. Nor are a lot of very good players that are under even worse contracts then Mitch!
What did we learn this summer? iHart, a career back up who started because mitch got hurt last year got a massive contract for two years. I get iHart has been more durable, but you get the drift. Centers are in demand!
I can't peg the market for mitch with any great accuracy but he could be key to a title run if he can get on the court and stay there! The kind of player contenders might be looking for or NOLA who could reep considerable financial gains by staying in the playoff hunt and getting in! If they have to burn an asset for year and a half like Jones its a small price. They have Ingram to figure out as well.
Sims and Huk have months to prove themselves suitable for back up.
Reality was iHart was able to exceed mitch. Kat is another story if he goes down.
Risk abound for all the above. Its a fluid situation. You need luck to win. We have the opportunity and the ceiling. More so than last season.
Long way to go.
martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.
Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.
For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.
Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?
No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.
Let me follow this up.
Mitch for Herb Jones swap is a tough swallow for both teams. For NOP, it’s the fact that Mitch has missed so much time and he is out right now. For NY, they know Mitch’s potential impact on not only games but full on playoff series, and he plays a position and role that Knicks are thin, they would want something back to replace those things that Mitch brings or they would want to fortify enough of those other areas from which they are getting in the return so that the trade makes sense.
I don’t know this for sure but I’d guess that GM and those types do value long term regular season availability, there should be little no doubt there. Herb Jones is a high end version of that as he is a well defined defender and well know offense player (spacer, cutter, not high offensive impact but very capable and within a role). Is he playoff capable and impactful? TBD. The TBD part is more when not if and that’ll be the risk part on the other end of the trade.
With Mitch, you KNOW he can impact a full playoff game or series. The risk is availability.
There is a reason GM’s sign Embiid, PG, Harden, etc. to insane contracts even with their well documented risk: cause they can impact when it really matters. Those GM/Pres types barely care if those players are available during the regular season (although they know the impact on team and are constantly mitigating), their dollars are (mostly or more typically) earned in other ways, both in terms of playoffs or other non basketball direct things. That last sentence is a big give or take grey area for every team and their situation and would change year to year, think luxury tax, cap situation, playoff versus tank team, etc.
Most GM/Pres types in this swap scenario would care more at a playoff impact level than on the availability side of things in terms with Mitch. This is the guess part for me.
IMHO Leon would never trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb Jones because even in an injury situation, he is losing 2 playoff trust guys for Thibs and not getting enough back that cover what he is potentially losing (middle depth). So maybe Yves Missi mitigates.
Something like that. I’d guess that’s what Leon is thinking in that situation.
On the other side of the coin, Zion has not made a playoffs appearance and the Pelicans have been bereft of a playoff series win since 2017-18. They have won exactly 1 playoff series since 2009. It’s nearly 2025 and that’s when desperation meets an insane trade that could be exploited by Leon.
martin wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.
Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.
For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.
Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?
No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.
Let me follow this up.
Mitch for Herb Jones swap is a tough swallow for both teams. For NOP, it’s the fact that Mitch has missed so much time and he is out right now. For NY, they know Mitch’s potential impact on not only games but full on playoff series, and he plays a position and role that Knicks are thin, they would want something back to replace those things that Mitch brings or they would want to fortify enough of those other areas from which they are getting in the return so that the trade makes sense.
I don’t know this for sure but I’d guess that GM and those types do value long term regular season availability, there should be little no doubt there. Herb Jones is a high end version of that as he is a well defined defender and well know offense player (spacer, cutter, not high offensive impact but very capable and within a role). Is he playoff capable and impactful? TBD. The TBD part is more when not if and that’ll be the risk part on the other end of the trade.
With Mitch, you KNOW he can impact a full playoff game or series. The risk is availability.
There is a reason GM’s sign Embiid, PG, Harden, etc. to insane contracts even with their well documented risk: cause they can impact when it really matters. Those GM/Pres types barely care if those players are available during the regular season (although they know the impact on team and are constantly mitigating), their dollars are (mostly or more typically) earned in other ways, both in terms of playoffs or other non basketball direct things. That last sentence is a big give or take grey area for every team and their situation and would change year to year, think luxury tax, cap situation, playoff versus tank team, etc.
Most GM/Pres types in this swap scenario would care more at a playoff impact level than on the availability side of things in terms with Mitch. This is the guess part for me.
IMHO Leon would never trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb Jones because even in an injury situation, he is losing 2 playoff trust guys for Thibs and not getting enough back that cover what he is potentially losing (middle depth). So maybe Yves Missi mitigates.
Something like that. I’d guess that’s what Leon is thinking in that situation.
On the other side of the coin, Zion has not made a playoffs appearance and the Pelicans have been bereft of a playoff series win since 2017-18. They have won exactly 1 playoff series since 2009. It’s nearly 2025 and that’s when desperation meets an insane trade that could be exploited by Leon.
I have a friend who lives in New Orleans. They absolutely LOVE Herb Jones (with good reason). He's on a good contract, was elected first team all defense and is shooting a lot better. He's absolutely vital to their defense. I might be wrong but i don't think they trade Jones for Mitch and Deuce. They would love Mitch I think but they would rather break the bank for Myles Turner.
shinmen wrote:martin wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.
Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.
Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.
I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).
Herb Jones
The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.
Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.
For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.
Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?
No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.
Let me follow this up.
Mitch for Herb Jones swap is a tough swallow for both teams. For NOP, it’s the fact that Mitch has missed so much time and he is out right now. For NY, they know Mitch’s potential impact on not only games but full on playoff series, and he plays a position and role that Knicks are thin, they would want something back to replace those things that Mitch brings or they would want to fortify enough of those other areas from which they are getting in the return so that the trade makes sense.
I don’t know this for sure but I’d guess that GM and those types do value long term regular season availability, there should be little no doubt there. Herb Jones is a high end version of that as he is a well defined defender and well know offense player (spacer, cutter, not high offensive impact but very capable and within a role). Is he playoff capable and impactful? TBD. The TBD part is more when not if and that’ll be the risk part on the other end of the trade.
With Mitch, you KNOW he can impact a full playoff game or series. The risk is availability.
There is a reason GM’s sign Embiid, PG, Harden, etc. to insane contracts even with their well documented risk: cause they can impact when it really matters. Those GM/Pres types barely care if those players are available during the regular season (although they know the impact on team and are constantly mitigating), their dollars are (mostly or more typically) earned in other ways, both in terms of playoffs or other non basketball direct things. That last sentence is a big give or take grey area for every team and their situation and would change year to year, think luxury tax, cap situation, playoff versus tank team, etc.
Most GM/Pres types in this swap scenario would care more at a playoff impact level than on the availability side of things in terms with Mitch. This is the guess part for me.
IMHO Leon would never trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb Jones because even in an injury situation, he is losing 2 playoff trust guys for Thibs and not getting enough back that cover what he is potentially losing (middle depth). So maybe Yves Missi mitigates.
Something like that. I’d guess that’s what Leon is thinking in that situation.
On the other side of the coin, Zion has not made a playoffs appearance and the Pelicans have been bereft of a playoff series win since 2017-18. They have won exactly 1 playoff series since 2009. It’s nearly 2025 and that’s when desperation meets an insane trade that could be exploited by Leon.
I have a friend who lives in New Orleans. They absolutely LOVE Herb Jones (with good reason). He's on a good contract, was elected first team all defense and is shooting a lot better. He's absolutely vital to their defense. I might be wrong but i don't think they trade Jones for Mitch and Deuce. They would love Mitch I think but they would rather break the bank for Myles Turner.
As much as I hate it, I think any trade with NOP would include both Deuce and Mitch. But I don't think that is enough from the Knicks side of things, I could be wrong.
NOP main guys right now: Zion, Brandon Ingram, Trey Murphy, Dejounte Murray, McCollum, Herb Jones, Jordan Hawkins, Jose Alvarado. The C spot for them is well regarded rookie Yves Missi and second string backup Daniel Theis. The need for a starting level C is pretty obvious. NOP got 1 guy over 6'9 who is currently in their main rotation.
BI is on an expiring contract, McCollum more more year after this one and just turned 33yo. They have some overlapping positional roles that those 2 guys cover, something will happen to one of those guys eventually.
Deuce would fit in the McCollum spot next to Dijounte very nicely as the POA defender and spacer. Mitch would cover up a lot of what Zion and their SF are not doing on the defensive end of things.
We shall see how this plays out.
SergioNYK wrote:We are not beating Philly and Embiid without Mitch. If you're gonna trade him, it's got to be for another big man.
Philly ain't beating NY without Embiid and PG. Those guys have a lot of worries on their hands.
Knixkik wrote:I;m happy to just stick with Mitch. Maybe as a backup in less minutes he can stay healthier. 20 mpg most games.
Same. Mitch gives a different look and he may not have enough O for a starter, but he definitely fills a needed role.
I still think that Precious starts and Hart to the bench and picture this:
SL: JB, Mikal, OG, PA, KAT
Bench: Campaign, Deuce, shooter (one of Ryan/Shamet/Pacman), Hart, Mitch
As stated, Mitch is going to need time to show he can get back to where he should be. Even then we have to hope he stays healthy. Mitch will probably come off the bench for a while, even if Thibs wants to start him down the road. If Mitch does start, there would be another adjustment period for Mitch and KAT, as a frontcourt tandem. A large part of the season would be spent getting Mitch back into the rotation. As a backup, even longer as a starter.
Its early but I see Cam as a feast or famine type of scorer. Some good nights, some nights where he doesnt contribute much. Kolek needs time as well. He was amazing in preseason, but struggled with the speed of a regular season game, and stouter defense. Deuce can finish off a fast break, but cant get to the rim consistently in a half court set or get his teammates going.
Staggering the starters will help, but I believe we need a player on DDV's level, at least how he was playing in NY. A player we can count on to get buckets, to get to the rim, get to the line, draw fouls.
The FO has been apparently trying to trade Mitch for a year and a half. Were they only offering Mitch in a trade and not Deuce?. Offering Mitch and Deuce could net us a real scoring threat off the bench. Give a team a player in Deuce ready to contribute on day one, while Mitch gets his bearings. Then give Kolek the minutes to adjust to the speed of the NBA game, NBA defenses who know now not to sag on him.
I'd rather focus on getting Kolek up to speed, trade for a more versatile bench scorer. Give Hukporti the minutes to become our backup center going forward. A center who will be more of a scoring threat, and more available than Mitch for years to come.
Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?
On a cellar dwellar, there might be drama. On a contender, a starting unit with 2 all-stars, a former NBA champion. 2nd team all-defense, a first team all defense, I wouldnt forsee drama. I would see a player good enough to start, coming off the bench as instant offense, playing their role to help get us a Chip'. On a squad which needs help shoring up its bench
Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?
He would have to be a better player and make the same money or less. How many guys out there really fit that criteria? Not many (or maybe any.)
Knixkik wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?He would have to be a better player and make the same money or less. How many guys out there really fit that criteria? Not many (or maybe any.)
Only of we trade for Deuce straight up.
Knixkik wrote:Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?He would have to be a better player and make the same money or less. How many guys out there really fit that criteria? Not many (or maybe any.)
Yeah that's the real problem . I don't know what scenario exists that allows the Knicks to get equal value in a McBride trade. His salary rivals Donte's. That's not a small thing considering we're pinned up at the second apron.