I've been Knicks fan since Jumpin' Johnny Green picked up my tiny 10 year body to dunk at summer camp.
Leon Rose has got to be the best Knick Gm of all time. The trades for Bridges and Townes easily rival the trade for DeBusschere.
After last night's blow out in Detroit, we got to see how all the pieces can fit together. Just wait until we get Precious and Mitch back.
Great job Leon. Wish you weren't so private and media shy. I think we'd all like to know more about you.
Maybe you can help the Jets.
I’m so young I don’t even know who Jumpin Johnny Green is?
Eddie Donovan constructed the 1970 and 1973 team.
Leon has not won a conf. finals yet so lets not get too excited after blowing out the detroit pistons.
Leon has done a great job thus far and I won't argue much. I thought Checketts did a great job for a while and Earnie Grunfeld did good had he been left alone to trade Ewing or let him go via free agency when Don Nelson clashed. Earnie built a modern running team even with ewing who Dolan mandated he keep. JVG was not the right coach. Don Nelson was was canned after 56 games because Ewing had issues.
Leon is doing great! Not the best yet.
martin wrote:I’m so young I don’t even know who Jumpin Johnny Green is?
Me too....except I ain't that young 
Leon is patient and makes grown up moves. He makes Isiah Thomas look like a fetus
Look up Johnny Green on the basketballreference.com
He was way before my time. I only read about him.
Know your teams history! Green could ball and had very strange longevity. Today one would say he is taking PED's!
Nalod wrote:Look up Johnny Green on the basketballreference.com
He was way before my time. I only read about him.
Know your teams history! Green could ball and had very strange longevity. Today one would say he is taking PED's!
I wouldn't go that far. But he looks like Thaddeus Young 1.0.
Rookie wrote:martin wrote:I’m so young I don’t even know who Jumpin Johnny Green is?
Me too....except I ain't that young
Leon is patient and makes grown up moves. He makes Isiah Thomas look like a fetus
I first joined this site when I was young, but after playing ball two days ago and still feeling the aches, I can totally relate. I had to look up Jumpin' Johnny myself—crazy to think it took a guy from Ohio to set us straight.
Leon’s reserved approach with the media just adds to the mystique of his legacy.
Nalod wrote:Look up Johnny Green on the basketballreference.com
He was way before my time. I only read about him.
Know your teams history! Green could ball and had very strange longevity. Today one would say he is taking PED's!
Everybody took some form of PEDs back then and more. We just hear about the few that got caught.
I agree with Nalod about Dave Checketts. In spite of not having any deep playoff runs (yet) I'd say Rose is the best Knicks exec we've had since Checketts.
GustavBahler wrote:I agree with Nalod about Dave Checketts. In spite of not having any deep playoff runs (yet) I'd say Rose is the best Knicks exec we've had since Checketts.
Earnie Grunfeld got fired after the team made finals in 1999 losing to SAS.
JVG had earned a 2 year 2mm per extension by getting there. He was to be fired but Dolan being Dolan could not do that with his winning coach. Earnie and JVG did not see eye to eye and one had to go.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I agree with Nalod about Dave Checketts. In spite of not having any deep playoff runs (yet) I'd say Rose is the best Knicks exec we've had since Checketts.
Earnie Grunfeld got fired after the team made finals in 1999 losing to SAS.
JVG had earned a 2 year 2mm per extension by getting there. He was to be fired but Dolan being Dolan could not do that with his winning coach. Earnie and JVG did not see eye to eye and one had to go.
We did a lot of winning with Checketts as team president. He made his share of mistakes, but the Knicks were relevant, if not elite, under his watch. He gave Grunfeld more and more responsibility, and let him do his job, for the most part. We spent decades in the wilderness after he left.
Rose has yet to match the success we witnessed as fans when Checketts ran the Knicks, but he's hired the right people, built a legit contender ( with a few more tweaks maybe) so I believe its fair to use Checketts time in NY as a benchmark.
As for the Ewing trade, I blame Ewing most of all for forcing the Knicks hand, insisting on being traded immediately, instead of waiting until the offseason, when Grunfeld could have made a better deal.
GustavBahler wrote:
As for the Ewing trade, I blame Ewing most of all for forcing the Knicks hand, insisting on being traded immediately, instead of waiting until the offseason, when Grunfeld could have made a better deal.
He probably should have been traded back in '96 for Shaq.. which is what some were trying to do.
jaydh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:
As for the Ewing trade, I blame Ewing most of all for forcing the Knicks hand, insisting on being traded immediately, instead of waiting until the offseason, when Grunfeld could have made a better deal.
He probably should have been traded back in '96 for Shaq.. which is what some were trying to do.
Shaq was a superstar just entering his prime at that point, so I doubt a deal was doable. Would have been nice though.
Nice thing about this squad is that they're young enough to contend for the next 3-4 years, if they keep this starting unit intact.
I think the argument for Rose is strong. I think taking a franchise that had been really battered by 20 years of incompetent ownership and making it not only respectable but exceptional has to factor, along with the fact that I think today's game with outrageous salaries for marginal role players.
We got lucky getting Brunson, but every move has been great, or if it missed (like Kemba/EF) erased without too much damage.
Also - I should add- we have hit on some nice talent in late picks (IQ, MR, McBride, Grimes) and for as good as Checketts was, I don't recall him getting anything similar.
I think these are the picks you can credit/blame Checketts for. I think Weis should end any discussion of having Checketts in the discussion!
Player
Donnell Harvey (↳DAL)
Lavor Postell
Frédéric Weis
J.R. Koch
DeMarco Johnson
Sean Marks (↳TOR)
John Thomas (↳BOS)
John Wallace
Walter McCarty
Dontae' Jones
Monty Williams
Charlie Ward
Hubert Davis
Greg Anthony
franco12 wrote:I think the argument for Rose is strong. I think taking a franchise that had been really battered by 20 years of incompetent ownership and making it not only respectable but exceptional has to factor, along with the fact that I think today's game with outrageous salaries for marginal role players.We got lucky getting Brunson, but every move has been great, or if it missed (like Kemba/EF) erased without too much damage.
Also - I should add- we have hit on some nice talent in late picks (IQ, MR, McBride, Grimes) and for as good as Checketts was, I don't recall him getting anything similar.
Rose did benefit from inheriting a team with plenty of cap room, a surplus of 1st and 2nd rd picks, good young players to build around, and eventually trade to build the team we see now. Not to mention Randle.
As good as Rose has been, and he has been a very good exec. He was in the unique position of not inheriting a capped out team, with aging stars on bad contracts, with a cupboard bare of future draft picks, because the previous regime made such a mess.
This was the reality most execs faced, when they took the job since Checketts left. Not having that hand foisted on them easily saved Rose years on a rebuild.
franco12 wrote:I think the argument for Rose is strong. I think taking a franchise that had been really battered by 20 years of incompetent ownership and making it not only respectable but exceptional has to factor, along with the fact that I think today's game with outrageous salaries for marginal role players.We got lucky getting Brunson, but every move has been great, or if it missed (like Kemba/EF) erased without too much damage.
Also - I should add- we have hit on some nice talent in late picks (IQ, MR, McBride, Grimes) and for as good as Checketts was, I don't recall him getting anything similar.
I think these are the picks you can credit/blame Checketts for. I think Weis should end any discussion of having Checketts in the discussion!
Player
Donnell Harvey (↳DAL)
Lavor Postell
Frédéric Weis
J.R. Koch
DeMarco Johnson
Sean Marks (↳TOR)
John Thomas (↳BOS)
John Wallace
Walter McCarty
Dontae' Jones
Monty Williams
Charlie Ward
Hubert Davis
Greg Anthony
Im going by the deep playoff runs and Finals appearances, not the draft misses. In the end thats all that matters.
Shaq was set to be an unrestricted FA and the trade would have been ok if Shaq would have resigned. Shaq in subsequent years kind of insinuates it was about going to LA. Be silly to say otherwise and things turned out well for him there.
Checketts became team president and hired Earnie in 1992 thru the end of 1999.
Layden traded Ewing the next year. Patrick has two massive years on contract and at age 37 was not looking pretty. His trade value was not very high. Ewing wanted out and did not want to be in NY anymore.
Hayden's record going into his last year was over .500. Replaced mid year he over all fell two games under. Not saying Layden was good, but Isiah was bloody awful in the aftermath. Layden provided the cap space and expiring contracts (it was a thing back then) for Isiah to leverage up in still what I think is one of the most underrated disasters in modern pro sports history!
As for Shaq, if we could have swung a trade and kept him long term under Don Nelson perhaps a lot of history would have been different.
"What has Nellie ever won?" A lot of games!! #2 all time on the NBA list. Like many he never had the rosters to go all the way but Earnie had his vision and Nellie was the right coach. Ewing wanted his money and the ball. No too say he proved to be over the hill, he still had a few good years left, but a good franchise would have evolved. Dolan felt he needed his star attraction. In Chris Herrings book there was no solid rumor to Shaq being a knick. There was mention. Like I said, Shag wanted Hollywood then. Orlando got fucked and Free agency rules changed in the aftermath. Could we have convinced Shaq otherwise if given the opportunity? Orlando with Penny and Ewing would have been good window to a chip? Maybe? Remember, Ewing was set to be a FA also.
JVG did a good job and held his own vs. Miami. The underachieving 1999 team was when he and Earnie butted heads and one had to go.
GustavBahler wrote:franco12 wrote:I think the argument for Rose is strong. I think taking a franchise that had been really battered by 20 years of incompetent ownership and making it not only respectable but exceptional has to factor, along with the fact that I think today's game with outrageous salaries for marginal role players.We got lucky getting Brunson, but every move has been great, or if it missed (like Kemba/EF) erased without too much damage.
Also - I should add- we have hit on some nice talent in late picks (IQ, MR, McBride, Grimes) and for as good as Checketts was, I don't recall him getting anything similar.
I think these are the picks you can credit/blame Checketts for. I think Weis should end any discussion of having Checketts in the discussion!
Player
Donnell Harvey (↳DAL)
Lavor Postell
Frédéric Weis
J.R. Koch
DeMarco Johnson
Sean Marks (↳TOR)
John Thomas (↳BOS)
John Wallace
Walter McCarty
Dontae' Jones
Monty Williams
Charlie Ward
Hubert Davis
Greg Anthony
Im going by the deep playoff runs and Finals appearances, not the draft misses. In the end thats all that matters.
Checketts inherited Ewing. He hired Pat Riley, but Pat left in part because of the poor operation of the Knick FO.
Pat Riley won with the Heat. I would have kept Riley, fired Checkets.
Rose is 100% better than Checketts.
Riley wanted part ownership.
Guys, read the book..........
Also Checketts was not the GM, he was president.
Riley was insecure and wanted from MSG what he was being offered under the table in Miami.
jaydh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:
As for the Ewing trade, I blame Ewing most of all for forcing the Knicks hand, insisting on being traded immediately, instead of waiting until the offseason, when Grunfeld could have made a better deal.
He probably should have been traded back in '96 for Shaq.. which is what some were trying to do.
Was never happening. Shaq was locked in on going to LA for his movie career
