Knicks · Windhorst made a great point about the Knicks (page 1)

Discussing teams who make multiple consolidation moves, chemistry building aside, he made a point that the Knicks need 2 transaction cycles to replenish the bench. Meaning deadline window and next offseason. He cited the Suns as the example. They spent time after the KD and Beal trade bare bones, and then over 2 transaction cycles were able to add Royce O’Neale, sign Tyus Jones for cheap, and find hidden gem Ryan Dunn. 3 legit rotation players to fill out the roster.

Knicks are up against the second apron, and a lot of their depth will be coming back from injury which is good, but they will need some trade and signing windows to add what they need. Maybe it’s getting back Achiuwa/ Mitch and then moving the Sims contract along with a few seconds for a cheap, helpful wing like Toumani Camara from Portland. And then maybe this summer with so little cap space to go around, a guy like Bruce Brown or Malcolm Brogdon (both CAA) are willing to sign with the Knicks for the minimum. Now your bench rotation is McBride, Mitch, Camara, brown/ Brogdon as your 4 rotation players off the bench, and then you resign Achiuwa/ Payne etc.

I know I’m getting ahead of myself a bit, and getting back Mitch/ Achiuwa first will make a difference, but we will still be over-reliant on big games from our starters, and I’d like to get some more firepower off the bench on offense too. With a front office so resourceful, I’m eager to see how they will fill out the roster going forward.

I think getting players back will go a long way towards helping and giving the rookies some time to mature.

I’d insert Prescious into the SL as soon as he’s ready- it helps balance the team, adds rebounding and interior defense, and then whoever goes to the bench is that scoring we miss there.

Knicks have the 4th best NET rating in the east, and actually somehow are the #4 seed. Once we click on defense we will go on a big run. We are essentially playing an entirely new starting lineup, give these guys some time.

Knixkik wrote:Discussing teams who make multiple consolidation moves, chemistry building aside, he made a point that the Knicks need 2 transaction cycles to replenish the bench. Meaning deadline window and next offseason. He cited the Suns as the example. They spent time after the KD and Beal trade bare bones, and then over 2 transaction cycles were able to add Royce O’Neale, sign Tyus Jones for cheap, and find hidden gem Ryan Dunn. 3 legit rotation players to fill out the roster.

Knicks are up against the second apron, and a lot of their depth will be coming back from injury which is good, but they will need some trade and signing windows to add what they need. Maybe it’s getting back Achiuwa/ Mitch and then moving the Sims contract along with a few seconds for a cheap, helpful wing like Toumani Camara from Portland. And then maybe this summer with so little cap space to go around, a guy like Bruce Brown or Malcolm Brogdon (both CAA) are willing to sign with the Knicks for the minimum. Now your bench rotation is McBride, Mitch, Camara, brown/ Brogdon as your 4 rotation players off the bench, and then you resign Achiuwa/ Payne etc.

I know I’m getting ahead of myself a bit, and getting back Mitch/ Achiuwa first will make a difference, but we will still be over-reliant on big games from our starters, and I’d like to get some more firepower off the bench on offense too. With a front office so resourceful, I’m eager to see how they will fill out the roster going forward.

This has been my basis for NOT feeling this is the year. The lack of depth is an issue and for now our staring core is healthy. Next man up could prove difficult. Thats true of all teams with a heavy star laden starting line up. Our Rooks also need the to get acclimated and perhaps prove as trade fodder if deemed necessary. Shamet could be the vet dude (Alec Burkes/Bojan) type we have had in the past if he can return and do so better than he was last season.

I'd love to be wrong and the team goes all the way!!!

if we started 20-10 and then went through a mid 5-6 stretch like this no one would even notice, it's only because it's at the start that it gets magnified.

Man I was just making a point about Dunn on the Around the nBA thread. I think in some respects, a lot of these comments may not have been made if we had a healthy Precious playing 20-25 mins off the bench offering defense and rebounding depth. However the Knicks are definitely short a rotation player or two and a "Big wing" is major depth issue. Our best 3 bench players are 6'1" and kind of overlap each other in some respects (Deuce, Payne, Kolek). Matt Ryan offers some size, but one has to wonder why we didn't find space for TJ Warren, who brings some beef and a nice scoring bag. I thought he looked good in camp. Let's see how Ryan plays- that quick trigger on 3 will be useful.

Add back the likes of Precious and Mitch and its not as bad a situation as anyone thinks. That said having that extra wing who can defend (which is why I made a post on the other thread lamenting Pacome over Dunn) would be really nice to have right now.

VDesai wrote:Man I was just making a point about Dunn on the Around the nBA thread. I think in some respects, a lot of these comments may not have been made if we had a healthy Precious playing 20-25 mins off the bench offering defense and rebounding depth. However the Knicks are definitely short a rotation player or two and a "Big wing" is major depth issue. Our best 3 bench players are 6'1" and kind of overlap each other in some respects (Deuce, Payne, Kolek). Matt Ryan offers some size, but one has to wonder why we didn't find space for TJ Warren, who brings some beef and a nice scoring bag. I thought he looked good in camp. Let's see how Ryan plays- that quick trigger on 3 will be useful.

Add back the likes of Precious and Mitch and its not as bad a situation as anyone thinks. That said having that extra wing who can defend (which is why I made a post on the other thread lamenting Pacome over Dunn) would be really nice to have right now.

Interesting points.

Does this feel the same or similar to last year before the Grimes/Donte switch or the OG/Precious for IQ/RJ moves?

Kinda feels like player moves or adjustments unfinished. Even with Mitch sitting out there too.

Knicks are definitely heading to this trade deadline and we should all pay attention to see what pops

nycericanguy wrote:if we started 20-10 and then went through a mid 5-6 stretch like this no one would even notice, it's only because it's at the start that it gets magnified.

Well - we could say we were a really good team that hit a rough patch if that were the case.

But starting out the season, we kinda are the record that it says we are - which is a middling good team which could improve, or continue to be a middling good team.

If you look at our stats, based on our point differential, we’re ranked 9 and assuming we maintain or improve that, we’ll be a top 10 team. Last year, we were ranked 5.

The other team stat that lines up with wins is rebounding- last year we were fifth - Boston was #2.

This year, we’re 23 - which does not bode well at all!

Getting Prescious back is going to help on this front immensely! And Robinson. I’d also like to see Sims get more minutes because he is a better rebounder than the small wingstops that we have in the SL.

franco12 wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:if we started 20-10 and then went through a mid 5-6 stretch like this no one would even notice, it's only because it's at the start that it gets magnified.

Well - we could say we were a really good team that hit a rough patch if that were the case.

But starting out the season, we kinda are the record that it says we are - which is a middling good team which could improve, or continue to be a middling good team.

If you look at our stats, based on our point differential, we’re ranked 9 and assuming we maintain or improve that, we’ll be a top 10 team. Last year, we were ranked 5.

The other team stat that lines up with wins is rebounding- last year we were fifth - Boston was #2.

This year, we’re 23 - which does not bode well at all!

Getting Prescious back is going to help on this front immensely! And Robinson. I’d also like to see Sims get more minutes because he is a better rebounder than the small wingstops that we have in the SL.

Can you really look at a team with KAT, OG, Mikal, Hart and Brunson and say they aren't a really good team? We have a +3.6 net rating so far and that's almost always a better indicator of how good a team is.

No team is going to have a +3.6 and finish .500.

Knixkik wrote:Discussing teams who make multiple consolidation moves, chemistry building aside, he made a point that the Knicks need 2 transaction cycles to replenish the bench. Meaning deadline window and next offseason. He cited the Suns as the example. They spent time after the KD and Beal trade bare bones, and then over 2 transaction cycles were able to add Royce O’Neale, sign Tyus Jones for cheap, and find hidden gem Ryan Dunn. 3 legit rotation players to fill out the roster.

Knicks are up against the second apron, and a lot of their depth will be coming back from injury which is good, but they will need some trade and signing windows to add what they need. Maybe it’s getting back Achiuwa/ Mitch and then moving the Sims contract along with a few seconds for a cheap, helpful wing like Toumani Camara from Portland. And then maybe this summer with so little cap space to go around, a guy like Bruce Brown or Malcolm Brogdon (both CAA) are willing to sign with the Knicks for the minimum. Now your bench rotation is McBride, Mitch, Camara, brown/ Brogdon as your 4 rotation players off the bench, and then you resign Achiuwa/ Payne etc.

I know I’m getting ahead of myself a bit, and getting back Mitch/ Achiuwa first will make a difference, but we will still be over-reliant on big games from our starters, and I’d like to get some more firepower off the bench on offense too. With a front office so resourceful, I’m eager to see how they will fill out the roster going forward.

It's pretty true. You see it a lot when teams make a splash but don't have the depth support. Dallas is another example who sucked after the Kyrie trade until they made the deadline deals for Gafford and PJ and added some good draft pieces.

Knicks are lacking in chemistry but also in depth. We have some depth that's injured which will help and chemistry should get better. The elephant in the room is whether this team can defend well enough to go deep in the playoffs.

nycericanguy wrote:if we started 20-10 and then went through a mid 5-6 stretch like this no one would even notice, it's only because it's at the start that it gets magnified.

I thought about this this morning. Last year was a bunch of .500 stints with 3-4 separate winning streaks layered in. That's kind of how the NBA season works. I remember the 54 win season, we started 18-6 and finished 13-1 and in between were .500.

Knicks will eventually pile on some 5-8 game winning streaks like they always do.

nycericanguy wrote:if we started 20-10 and then went through a mid 5-6 stretch like this no one would even notice, it's only because it's at the start that it gets magnified.

So true. And it’s been a tough early season road schedule too. Starting now things open up a bit. Games we need to start winning. Also, if cleveland is going to run away with the top seed, I’m good at 4. I want cleveland in the second round as opposed to Boston.

DLeethal wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Discussing teams who make multiple consolidation moves, chemistry building aside, he made a point that the Knicks need 2 transaction cycles to replenish the bench. Meaning deadline window and next offseason. He cited the Suns as the example. They spent time after the KD and Beal trade bare bones, and then over 2 transaction cycles were able to add Royce O’Neale, sign Tyus Jones for cheap, and find hidden gem Ryan Dunn. 3 legit rotation players to fill out the roster.

Knicks are up against the second apron, and a lot of their depth will be coming back from injury which is good, but they will need some trade and signing windows to add what they need. Maybe it’s getting back Achiuwa/ Mitch and then moving the Sims contract along with a few seconds for a cheap, helpful wing like Toumani Camara from Portland. And then maybe this summer with so little cap space to go around, a guy like Bruce Brown or Malcolm Brogdon (both CAA) are willing to sign with the Knicks for the minimum. Now your bench rotation is McBride, Mitch, Camara, brown/ Brogdon as your 4 rotation players off the bench, and then you resign Achiuwa/ Payne etc.

I know I’m getting ahead of myself a bit, and getting back Mitch/ Achiuwa first will make a difference, but we will still be over-reliant on big games from our starters, and I’d like to get some more firepower off the bench on offense too. With a front office so resourceful, I’m eager to see how they will fill out the roster going forward.

It's pretty true. You see it a lot when teams make a splash but don't have the depth support. Dallas is another example who sucked after the Kyrie trade until they made the deadline deals for Gafford and PJ and added some good draft pieces.

Knicks are lacking in chemistry but also in depth. We have some depth that's injured which will help and chemistry should get better. The elephant in the room is whether this team can defend well enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Dallas is a good call. Very similar situation.

Knixkik wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Discussing teams who make multiple consolidation moves, chemistry building aside, he made a point that the Knicks need 2 transaction cycles to replenish the bench. Meaning deadline window and next offseason. He cited the Suns as the example. They spent time after the KD and Beal trade bare bones, and then over 2 transaction cycles were able to add Royce O’Neale, sign Tyus Jones for cheap, and find hidden gem Ryan Dunn. 3 legit rotation players to fill out the roster.

Knicks are up against the second apron, and a lot of their depth will be coming back from injury which is good, but they will need some trade and signing windows to add what they need. Maybe it’s getting back Achiuwa/ Mitch and then moving the Sims contract along with a few seconds for a cheap, helpful wing like Toumani Camara from Portland. And then maybe this summer with so little cap space to go around, a guy like Bruce Brown or Malcolm Brogdon (both CAA) are willing to sign with the Knicks for the minimum. Now your bench rotation is McBride, Mitch, Camara, brown/ Brogdon as your 4 rotation players off the bench, and then you resign Achiuwa/ Payne etc.

I know I’m getting ahead of myself a bit, and getting back Mitch/ Achiuwa first will make a difference, but we will still be over-reliant on big games from our starters, and I’d like to get some more firepower off the bench on offense too. With a front office so resourceful, I’m eager to see how they will fill out the roster going forward.

It's pretty true. You see it a lot when teams make a splash but don't have the depth support. Dallas is another example who sucked after the Kyrie trade until they made the deadline deals for Gafford and PJ and added some good draft pieces.

Knicks are lacking in chemistry but also in depth. We have some depth that's injured which will help and chemistry should get better. The elephant in the room is whether this team can defend well enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Dallas is a good call. Very similar situation.

+1

Cleveland same way last year. started out of gate 13-12. From there to the all star break, 22-4. https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditio...

And then finished season 13-18. https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditio...

Injuries and such. Ebb and flow of a team. Still near 50 wins and not a bad season at all.

Knixkik wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Discussing teams who make multiple consolidation moves, chemistry building aside, he made a point that the Knicks need 2 transaction cycles to replenish the bench. Meaning deadline window and next offseason. He cited the Suns as the example. They spent time after the KD and Beal trade bare bones, and then over 2 transaction cycles were able to add Royce O’Neale, sign Tyus Jones for cheap, and find hidden gem Ryan Dunn. 3 legit rotation players to fill out the roster.

Knicks are up against the second apron, and a lot of their depth will be coming back from injury which is good, but they will need some trade and signing windows to add what they need. Maybe it’s getting back Achiuwa/ Mitch and then moving the Sims contract along with a few seconds for a cheap, helpful wing like Toumani Camara from Portland. And then maybe this summer with so little cap space to go around, a guy like Bruce Brown or Malcolm Brogdon (both CAA) are willing to sign with the Knicks for the minimum. Now your bench rotation is McBride, Mitch, Camara, brown/ Brogdon as your 4 rotation players off the bench, and then you resign Achiuwa/ Payne etc.

I know I’m getting ahead of myself a bit, and getting back Mitch/ Achiuwa first will make a difference, but we will still be over-reliant on big games from our starters, and I’d like to get some more firepower off the bench on offense too. With a front office so resourceful, I’m eager to see how they will fill out the roster going forward.

It's pretty true. You see it a lot when teams make a splash but don't have the depth support. Dallas is another example who sucked after the Kyrie trade until they made the deadline deals for Gafford and PJ and added some good draft pieces.

Knicks are lacking in chemistry but also in depth. We have some depth that's injured which will help and chemistry should get better. The elephant in the room is whether this team can defend well enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Dallas is a good call. Very similar situation.

Spot on. Now, KAT is better than I hoped. I think Bridges/Hart are kind of overlapping in their roles in the offense/defense making it weird. OG has been Fire or Ice, but we can see Mark Bryant's effect on him as a PF and not a wing.

If they could figure out how to add a Tari Eason and a Walker Kessler type within the next two transaction cycles, I think they may have it. Defensively, Robinson matches for the Walker Kessler type and Achiuwa kind of matches the Eason type, but I want more scoring (not elite scoring, just average) from each.

Trading for another bench scoring threat, or Mitch coming back, and giving the bench more scoring opportunities, should increase our pace.

I'm guessing that the starters are playing slow in part because they're being relied on so much, and want to have something left for the 4th quarter.

We had such great chemistry last year we were eliminated in the second round

Philc1 wrote:We had such great chemistry last year we were eliminated in the second round

Chemistry don’t got none on injury, I guess.

When making bridges is the focal point and JB is on the bench, bridges is a different player.

I think staggering him with 2nd unit will help his game.

Precious will be a major help since he also plays both forward and center. Will be a nice pair with Kat.

The team looks better now than it did 5 games ago. All I want to see is that it looks better ten games from now. It is a process, and as long as the team is improving, then we will be okay. I actually am liking the Towns trade more and more. He is more athletic than I thought. The team is going through its growing pains, but they should be grooving by February. If this team takes off after the All-Star break, everyone will forget about the slow start.

Knicks will go on a run at some point in the season. But I don't like how soft we are, Knicks need Mitch and Precious back to bring some toughness