Knicks · GameThread: Last game of road trip, Charlotte nooner on MSG (page 8)
Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
franco12 wrote:VDesai wrote:franco12 wrote:VDesai wrote:franco12 wrote:VDesai wrote:franco12 wrote:for all of Randle's flaws (finger waving at fans, grump, arguing with refs, slacking on D), it certainly seems like he was the heart of the club last year.Are you a joke? You know he didn't play the last 30 games or the playoffs?
no. but what is different this year vs last year and the years before?
Hartenstein? DiVincenzo? KAT and BRidges are here? Lots of things?
Donte was here last year.
iHart was a big part of our defense, but culture and the will to win - I think it was Randle. I think we are missing what he brought.
You can think that. That's nice. He literally wasn't playing last year when the team built most of his character.
SO - OG, Josh, Jalen - all here still - and they look like trash and they don't seem to care.
Look - we can criticize Randle, but I think he brought a winners mentality here- despite the flaws.
IMO - he brought a LOSERS mentality and the biggest proof of that was Knicks moved on as quickly as possible from 2 time all-star.
If he was such a leader - why did they move him. It was always VERY CLEAR because you can't have played basketball and watched Julius Randle quit on the floor and think his teammates loved and admired that. They didn't - they wanted him gone and he is gone -- now mucking up Minny.
BigDaddyG wrote:A win is a win I guess.
To Quote Jimmy V. "Survive and advance" 
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This is the same issue I have had for years with Thibs defense. Why is Brunson under the rim? KAT is right there. He should be in the passing lanes. Brunson being under the hoop gives them wide open 3's on the weakside. This been going on for YEARS. Here is why every poor shooting team or player shoots well vs us.
It's not so much the help and recover because we've often see Jalen in help taking a charge and the rotation out to the shooter was proper with Hart taking corner and Brunson recover to wing.
The issue was look at the beginning of the play and Bridges caught on high screen is about 10 feet behind his guy -- causing all the rest of the help to compensate.
franco12 wrote:Knicksfan wrote:VDesai wrote:The foul calls are brutal in this game. Not the reason we are losing, but its badI would totally blame us playing like crap. I’ve seen games where I hate the refs or hate the opponent, not this one. I hate our team. They have been undisciplined, uninspired, disorganized and careless. They are still close, but wow if they win, this would be such an undeserving win. They have sucked in every aspect of the game against basically a G-League team.
I keep waiting for them to show they are improving towards that contender status, but every time they seem to take one or two steps back. The Hornets, the heavily undermanned Hornets, is out-hustling us in such an embarrassing way.
This is a very low point. This team is hot garbage.
Not happening. This team is soft. Mikal - garbage. I can't believe he has disappeared like he did. I have slim hope if he were moved to the bench, he might yet recover some semblance of the player that played in the NBA.
OG is not a Power Forward.
Kat is soft. If I could trade him for 'an in-his-prime' Kurt Thomas, I would in a second.
Josh Hart is a wonderful player - but not in the NBA if he is playing 37+ minutes every night.
Jalen looks like teams have figured out how to minimize his damage and he has struggled to impact the game other ways.
And Thibs will not play anyone from the bench, even when it is painfully clear the starters are spent.
Is there football on yet?
There is a lot of truth in your comments.
Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
Yea, look at the difference between the Cavs last year and this year.
This team needs to get seasoned and get Precious/Shamet back.
Also we have a cupcake schedule coming up in December and probably end up 8-10 games over .500 by the end of it. Seriously I don’t think we play one above .500 team the whole month.
I’m very down on this team. Their offensive highs aren’t as trustworthy as their defense was last season, so it’s very hard to root for such an inconsistent and uninspired team. It’s ironic that we have the most talent we’ve had in years, yet this team sucks and it’s turning into a story that goes beyond an adjustment period. No, many things are already becoming trends hard to see them change. The defense seems to be a philosophical problem, Bridges’ seems to be mental and the trust on the bench is alarming considering this is probably the team we’ll have moving forward after Precious returns and then Mitch next year.
This team honestly sucks. Next amazing offensive performance won’t fool me anymore. Until they care to improve their defense, this team is nothing more than an overrated pretender. Yes, I’m mad. One thing is a few mistakes or some shots not falling. Today, it was embarrassing.
VDesai wrote:OG at least doing some things defensively despite looking like he's 90 yrs old trying to navigate the court on rollerskates.What is Bridges excuse for being the most idiotic player in basketball?
It is seriously perplexing -- from afar watching him in Phoenix/Nets he was one of the lowest maintenance and high efficiency players in the league but what we are witnessing is someone shatting their shorts most nights.
We stand no chance if he doesn't turn this ship around and I hate how casual he is after making some really bad plays -- just high fives closest guy to him. Just weird.
BigDaddyG wrote:A win is a win I guess.
Not this one.
Knicksfan wrote:You see other teams playing defense (currently watching ATL v CLE) and the teams look balanced and set up on defense. The Knicks ALWAYS look late to cover, hunting for nonexistent steals and then ALWAYS leaving a man open for three. They are ALWAYS scrambling like crazy. Everyone plays them exactly the same: run the offense fast, constant screens and just wait for the definite open man that you will get, and always crash the boards because the Knicks can’t get consistent defensive rebounds. It’s been 19 games and I see no adjustment. Instead, Thibs is trusting less on his bench, keeping sorry-azz Bridges on the floor as long as he can even though he clearly isn’t right.I’m very down on this team. Their offensive highs aren’t as trustworthy as their defense was last season, so it’s very hard to root for such an inconsistent and uninspired team. It’s ironic that we have the most talent we’ve had in years, yet this team sucks and it’s turning into a story that goes beyond an adjustment period. No, many things are already becoming trends hard to see them change. The defense seems to be a philosophical problem, Bridges’ seems to be mental and the trust on the bench is alarming considering this is probably the team we’ll have moving forward after Precious returns and then Mitch next year.
This team honestly sucks. Next amazing offensive performance won’t fool me anymore. Until they care to improve their defense, this team is nothing more than an overrated pretender. Yes, I’m mad. One thing is a few mistakes or some shots not falling. Today, it was embarrassing.
Precious and Shamet are not nothing when it comes to bench additions. Both fill huge needs for us right now.
Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
They actually found a way to. In the end we didn’t have enough healthy bodies available. But the way we played defense and were so together as a team, it’s not hard to see a healthy version of us dispatching the Pacers and giving the Celtics their first real challenge of the playoffs. Of course, that didn’t happen but I truly think it was more about our health than our play.
Now, that team was never returning once we lost iHart, then did all the moves we did. But to fall so badly on defense from last season might be the biggest disappointment of the year, even more than sorry Bridges making that trade being regretted by every Knicks fan.
Knicksfan wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:A win is a win I guess.Not this one.
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This is the same issue I have had for years with Thibs defense. Why is Brunson under the rim? KAT is right there. He should be in the passing lanes. Brunson being under the hoop gives them wide open 3's on the weakside. This been going on for YEARS. Here is why every poor shooting team or player shoots well vs us.It's not so much the help and recover because we've often see Jalen in help taking a charge and the rotation out to the shooter was proper with Hart taking corner and Brunson recover to wing.
The issue was look at the beginning of the play and Bridges caught on high screen is about 10 feet behind his guy -- causing all the rest of the help to compensate.
You are not taking a charge directly under the hoop. I understand Bridges messed up but KAT recovered and was on the ball. So the initial mistake was solved. Brunson being directly under the hoop was the mistake that cost us the 3. He could not defend the ball. He could not get a charge in the restricted area. He could do nothing there but give up a wide open 3. That is exactly what he did.
Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
We don't know that with all the injuries.
DLeethal wrote:Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
Yea, look at the difference between the Cavs last year and this year.
This team needs to get seasoned and get Precious/Shamet back.
Also we have a cupcake schedule coming up in December and probably end up 8-10 games over .500 by the end of it. Seriously I don’t think we play one above .500 team the whole month.
Look how this cupcake game materialized.
No sweets for this team with this rotten defense. Today’s unfocused play was even more disappointing because it shows how immature they are, not giving their best effort against a undermanned team.
Nah, this team is rotten right now. And Bridges is pathetic.
DLeethal wrote:Knicksfan wrote:You see other teams playing defense (currently watching ATL v CLE) and the teams look balanced and set up on defense. The Knicks ALWAYS look late to cover, hunting for nonexistent steals and then ALWAYS leaving a man open for three. They are ALWAYS scrambling like crazy. Everyone plays them exactly the same: run the offense fast, constant screens and just wait for the definite open man that you will get, and always crash the boards because the Knicks can’t get consistent defensive rebounds. It’s been 19 games and I see no adjustment. Instead, Thibs is trusting less on his bench, keeping sorry-azz Bridges on the floor as long as he can even though he clearly isn’t right.I’m very down on this team. Their offensive highs aren’t as trustworthy as their defense was last season, so it’s very hard to root for such an inconsistent and uninspired team. It’s ironic that we have the most talent we’ve had in years, yet this team sucks and it’s turning into a story that goes beyond an adjustment period. No, many things are already becoming trends hard to see them change. The defense seems to be a philosophical problem, Bridges’ seems to be mental and the trust on the bench is alarming considering this is probably the team we’ll have moving forward after Precious returns and then Mitch next year.
This team honestly sucks. Next amazing offensive performance won’t fool me anymore. Until they care to improve their defense, this team is nothing more than an overrated pretender. Yes, I’m mad. One thing is a few mistakes or some shots not falling. Today, it was embarrassing.
Precious and Shamet are not nothing when it comes to bench additions. Both fill huge needs for us right now.
I believed the same thing. But you have to wonder: how come such a talented team has to hope for players like Precious and Shamet to return as their latest hope. We are talking about our bench. Yes, I do get their value, especially with our defense and with Thibs again forgetting he is allowed to use the players he has right now on the bench, but again: how does a talented team like this need to hope for those players to return to hopefully play better?
It shouldn’t be the case. I’m not even talking about wins. I’m talking about play and effort. The defense is a huge mess that seems to be beyond one guy returning and fixing it. The gameplan seems to be the biggest problem. And the effort is part of the problem. We are ALWAYS LATE on defense. ALWAYS!
Knicksfan wrote:DLeethal wrote:Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
Yea, look at the difference between the Cavs last year and this year.
This team needs to get seasoned and get Precious/Shamet back.
Also we have a cupcake schedule coming up in December and probably end up 8-10 games over .500 by the end of it. Seriously I don’t think we play one above .500 team the whole month.
Look how this cupcake game materialized.
No sweets for this team with this rotten defense. Today’s unfocused play was even more disappointing because it shows how immature they are, not giving their best effort against a undermanned team.
Nah, this team is rotten right now. And Bridges is pathetic.
The ran off 4 in a row last time they had a cupcake schedule and just went 3-2 on their road trip including a massacre in Denver two games back. There are red flags sure but the doom and gloom is overkill in here. They can easily turn it up and win 8 in a row like they’ve done many a time last few seasons.
Knicksfan wrote:DLeethal wrote:Knicksfan wrote:You see other teams playing defense (currently watching ATL v CLE) and the teams look balanced and set up on defense. The Knicks ALWAYS look late to cover, hunting for nonexistent steals and then ALWAYS leaving a man open for three. They are ALWAYS scrambling like crazy. Everyone plays them exactly the same: run the offense fast, constant screens and just wait for the definite open man that you will get, and always crash the boards because the Knicks can’t get consistent defensive rebounds. It’s been 19 games and I see no adjustment. Instead, Thibs is trusting less on his bench, keeping sorry-azz Bridges on the floor as long as he can even though he clearly isn’t right.I’m very down on this team. Their offensive highs aren’t as trustworthy as their defense was last season, so it’s very hard to root for such an inconsistent and uninspired team. It’s ironic that we have the most talent we’ve had in years, yet this team sucks and it’s turning into a story that goes beyond an adjustment period. No, many things are already becoming trends hard to see them change. The defense seems to be a philosophical problem, Bridges’ seems to be mental and the trust on the bench is alarming considering this is probably the team we’ll have moving forward after Precious returns and then Mitch next year.
This team honestly sucks. Next amazing offensive performance won’t fool me anymore. Until they care to improve their defense, this team is nothing more than an overrated pretender. Yes, I’m mad. One thing is a few mistakes or some shots not falling. Today, it was embarrassing.
Precious and Shamet are not nothing when it comes to bench additions. Both fill huge needs for us right now.
I believed the same thing. But you have to wonder: how come such a talented team has to hope for players like Precious and Shamet to return as their latest hope. We are talking about our bench. Yes, I do get their value, especially with our defense and with Thibs again forgetting he is allowed to use the players he has right now on the bench, but again: how does a talented team like this need to hope for those players to return to hopefully play better?
It shouldn’t be the case. I’m not even talking about wins. I’m talking about play and effort. The defense is a huge mess that seems to be beyond one guy returning and fixing it. The gameplan seems to be the biggest problem. And the effort is part of the problem. We are ALWAYS LATE on defense. ALWAYS!
Mavs were a below .500 team and went to the finals after adding Gafford and PJ Washington last year. It’s not uncommon at all for things to “click” after getting some support pieces back.
But no one is expecting Shamet and Precious to transform the team. Knicks are not far off from being 13-6 or 14-5. And they most likely pad their record bigly next month.
LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:franco12 wrote:for all of Randle's flaws (finger waving at fans, grump, arguing with refs, slacking on D), it certainly seems like he was the heart of the club last year.Are you a joke? You know he didn't play the last 30 games or the playoffs?
Seriously Franco --- anyone with eyes could see Knicks teammates weren't in love with Randle and front office tried all summer to get rid of him. T-Pup fans already hating on him and Aunt Man saying their team is growing farther and farther apart. Who you think might be driving that situation who is new in Minny?
Look - Randle in Minny is not a great situation - he didn't want to go there - and they don't want him - he is salary filler - that is a toxic situation.
I'm not proud of saying we miss Randle, but I'm looking at how we play - where we're missing - and Randle was the guy that came here when no one else wanted to, and got things turned around.
We miss Donte - sure. Do we miss iHart - absolutely.
But on paper - Kat & Bridges should at least hold their own production/win wise vs those two.
I don't buy that guys on the team didn't like him - yes, it was stupid when he pushed the video coach who was trying to help Randle be a better player.
Randle was not perfect, but I am thinking we have a bunch of soft ass players and Randle might have been the difference in having a will to win.
DLeethal wrote:Knicksfan wrote:DLeethal wrote:Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
Yea, look at the difference between the Cavs last year and this year.
This team needs to get seasoned and get Precious/Shamet back.
Also we have a cupcake schedule coming up in December and probably end up 8-10 games over .500 by the end of it. Seriously I don’t think we play one above .500 team the whole month.
Look how this cupcake game materialized.
No sweets for this team with this rotten defense. Today’s unfocused play was even more disappointing because it shows how immature they are, not giving their best effort against a undermanned team.
Nah, this team is rotten right now. And Bridges is pathetic.
The ran off 4 in a row last time they had a cupcake schedule and just went 3-2 on their road trip including a massacre in Denver two games back. There are red flags sure but the doom and gloom is overkill in here. They can easily turn it up and win 8 in a row like they’ve done many a time last few seasons.
Of course they can win 8 in a row. They can suddenly become almost unbeatable. That might make them the team to beat in the league as they breeze their way through the playoffs into a championship.
Anything can happen, right?
Sure, but the point of my pessimism with this team right now it not an “out of nowhere the-sky-is-falling”, but just basic “open your eyes and see the trends”. How exactly are they gonna win 8 games in a down when they can’t even have 8 strong defensive possessions in a row in a game? The defense is broken and it’s not one single player underperforming.
Can they shoot their way into 8 wins in a row? An unreal streak could get it done, but we have seen how this team looks when shots aren’t falling and it ain’t pretty. Why? Because of the above.
How did last years team get their streaks going? Sure, there was inspired offensive plays from some players, but our bread and butter was a very solid defense. That hasn’t happened yet.
I wanna be optimistic like you. Heck, I also believed that getting Precious alone could have a very good impact on this team and its defense. But the way this team struggles is becoming a trend and TODAY every worst part of our team showed up: no defense, no focus taking care of the ball, no ball movement, overuse of the starters.
Will they improve? I do believe so, but no longer do I believe it will happen soon. No longer does it seem like we are a contender just finding our way. This team has A LOT of things to work out and it might take them until the last part of the season to get really close to.