Knicks · GameThread: Last game of road trip, Charlotte nooner on MSG (page 9)
DLeethal wrote:Knicksfan wrote:DLeethal wrote:Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
Yea, look at the difference between the Cavs last year and this year.
This team needs to get seasoned and get Precious/Shamet back.
Also we have a cupcake schedule coming up in December and probably end up 8-10 games over .500 by the end of it. Seriously I don’t think we play one above .500 team the whole month.
Look how this cupcake game materialized.
No sweets for this team with this rotten defense. Today’s unfocused play was even more disappointing because it shows how immature they are, not giving their best effort against a undermanned team.
Nah, this team is rotten right now. And Bridges is pathetic.
The ran off 4 in a row last time they had a cupcake schedule and just went 3-2 on their road trip including a massacre in Denver two games back. There are red flags sure but the doom and gloom is overkill in here. They can easily turn it up and win 8 in a row like they’ve done many a time last few seasons.
Of course they can win 8 in a row. They can suddenly become almost unbeatable. That might make them the team to beat in the league as they breeze their way through the playoffs into a championship.
Anything can happen, right?
Sure, but the point of my pessimism with this team right now it not an “out of nowhere the-sky-is-falling”, but just basic “open your eyes and see the trends”. How exactly are they gonna win 8 games in a down when they can’t even have 8 strong defensive possessions in a row in a game? The defense is broken and it’s not one single player underperforming.
Can they shoot their way into 8 wins in a row? An unreal streak could get it done, but we have seen how this team looks when shots aren’t falling and it ain’t pretty. Why? Because of the above.
How did last years team get their streaks going? Sure, there was inspired offensive plays from some players, but our bread and butter was a very solid defense. That hasn’t happened yet.
I wanna be optimistic like you. Heck, I also believed that getting Precious alone could have a very good impact on this team and its defense. But the way this team struggles is becoming a trend and TODAY every worst part of our team showed up: no defense, no focus taking care of the ball, no ball movement, overuse of the starters.
Will they improve? I do believe so, but no longer do I believe it will happen soon. No longer does it seem like we are a contender just finding our way. This team has A LOT of things to work out and it might take them until the last part of the season to get really close to.
Blame it on at the noon start time the day after Thanksgiving (great job NBA!) or it being the last game of the road trip but our heads were clearly not in the game. 19 turnover with 8 coming in another putrid first quarter where we only scored 15. It didn't look like we wanted to play this game but you have to give them credit for sticking it out and coming away with the win.
I think Deuce's dunk in the 4th kind of turned the game around and gave us a spark. Brunson also took over late in the 4th and hit some clutch FTs. Hart was like the only one hustling for those loose balls.
Frustrating game for KAT. Zebras made a decision early they just wouldn't allow him to bully ball. OG was off again too. That shot has gone ice cold since his career high earlier in the week. 0/12 from 3 last 2 games.
Bridges was awful. That turnover at the end of the half that resulted in 4 points was embarrassing. His defense was awful too. I'm trying to be super patient because he's a proven vet but his play today was unacceptable.
1st, congrats to your 3-0 NBA CUP Knicks, wanted to start with a positive, haha. Beat the Magic and they lock up a spot.
Mikal's body language, facial expressions, and attitude are as off as his shot form. He needs to wakeTFU. Lazy passes, lazy transition D, and terrible switches under the pick leaving 3s wide open. He was -14 while most everyone else was positive. I just can't understand this from the team overall. You have supposed elite wingstops, some say the best 2 in the league, yet the team keeps double-teaming, and rarely gets a turnover when they do. So, they chase the ball until a wide-open 3 is hit late in the shot clock. Elite defenders should stay on their assignment.
I let OG pass, still played solid D, but I think he is hurt. Not jumping as high and often falling down more than usual. I don't have many issues with the rest of the team.
Sims didn't contribute much and though I agree the calls on KAT are usually inconsistent with how the rest of the game is being called, he needs to adjust and stop getting offensive fouls or weak low reach-ins on D. Without Miles return, we lose this game. We shouldn't let Bridges shoot his way out of horrible form shots and lazy defense. He needs to go to the bench/2nd unit or threaten his game streak by sitting him out a game.
Lastly, a win despite 19 turnovers, and 31 points off of them, damn lucky. I was surprised we didn't foul that 3 pointer to let them tie it. Cam has played well enough to get more than 11 minutes. Give him some of Mikal's minutes. And Knicks, stop complaining about missed calls and get back on defense.
Well, enjoy the holiday weekend, folks. Knicks come home to a nice schedule until we play OKC on JAN 3, 2025. Bring on the Pelicans. Let's go Knicks!!!
DLeethal wrote:Knicksfan wrote:DLeethal wrote:Knicksfan wrote:You see other teams playing defense (currently watching ATL v CLE) and the teams look balanced and set up on defense. The Knicks ALWAYS look late to cover, hunting for nonexistent steals and then ALWAYS leaving a man open for three. They are ALWAYS scrambling like crazy. Everyone plays them exactly the same: run the offense fast, constant screens and just wait for the definite open man that you will get, and always crash the boards because the Knicks can’t get consistent defensive rebounds. It’s been 19 games and I see no adjustment. Instead, Thibs is trusting less on his bench, keeping sorry-azz Bridges on the floor as long as he can even though he clearly isn’t right.I’m very down on this team. Their offensive highs aren’t as trustworthy as their defense was last season, so it’s very hard to root for such an inconsistent and uninspired team. It’s ironic that we have the most talent we’ve had in years, yet this team sucks and it’s turning into a story that goes beyond an adjustment period. No, many things are already becoming trends hard to see them change. The defense seems to be a philosophical problem, Bridges’ seems to be mental and the trust on the bench is alarming considering this is probably the team we’ll have moving forward after Precious returns and then Mitch next year.
This team honestly sucks. Next amazing offensive performance won’t fool me anymore. Until they care to improve their defense, this team is nothing more than an overrated pretender. Yes, I’m mad. One thing is a few mistakes or some shots not falling. Today, it was embarrassing.
Precious and Shamet are not nothing when it comes to bench additions. Both fill huge needs for us right now.
I believed the same thing. But you have to wonder: how come such a talented team has to hope for players like Precious and Shamet to return as their latest hope. We are talking about our bench. Yes, I do get their value, especially with our defense and with Thibs again forgetting he is allowed to use the players he has right now on the bench, but again: how does a talented team like this need to hope for those players to return to hopefully play better?
It shouldn’t be the case. I’m not even talking about wins. I’m talking about play and effort. The defense is a huge mess that seems to be beyond one guy returning and fixing it. The gameplan seems to be the biggest problem. And the effort is part of the problem. We are ALWAYS LATE on defense. ALWAYS!
Mavs were a below .500 team and went to the finals after adding Gafford and PJ Washington last year. It’s not uncommon at all for things to “click” after getting some support pieces back.
But no one is expecting Shamet and Precious to transform the team. Knicks are not far off from being 13-6 or 14-5. And they most likely pad their record bigly next month.
Knicksfan wrote:DLeethal wrote:Knicksfan wrote:DLeethal wrote:Uptown wrote:Clean wrote:VDesai wrote:Its a W that counts the same as the Denver one. Thats what matters.THis better be a fucking wake up call
Is that all that matters? This team was meant to be a contender. We went all in on this roster. Unless we are having all time shooting that game we are struggling to beat teams no matter how bad they are. We all know it won't be a wakeup call. There is no wakeup call to be had. This is what our new team is now. This is not last years team anymore. We are not good enough.
Last years team wasn't good enough to contend, either. Also, this currentvteam has a 3-4 years window to contend, not 3-4 days or weeks.
Yea, look at the difference between the Cavs last year and this year.
This team needs to get seasoned and get Precious/Shamet back.
Also we have a cupcake schedule coming up in December and probably end up 8-10 games over .500 by the end of it. Seriously I don’t think we play one above .500 team the whole month.
Look how this cupcake game materialized.
No sweets for this team with this rotten defense. Today’s unfocused play was even more disappointing because it shows how immature they are, not giving their best effort against a undermanned team.
Nah, this team is rotten right now. And Bridges is pathetic.
The ran off 4 in a row last time they had a cupcake schedule and just went 3-2 on their road trip including a massacre in Denver two games back. There are red flags sure but the doom and gloom is overkill in here. They can easily turn it up and win 8 in a row like they’ve done many a time last few seasons.
Of course they can win 8 in a row. They can suddenly become almost unbeatable. That might make them the team to beat in the league as they breeze their way through the playoffs into a championship.
Anything can happen, right?
Sure, but the point of my pessimism with this team right now it not an “out of nowhere the-sky-is-falling”, but just basic “open your eyes and see the trends”. How exactly are they gonna win 8 games in a down when they can’t even have 8 strong defensive possessions in a row in a game? The defense is broken and it’s not one single player underperforming.
Can they shoot their way into 8 wins in a row? An unreal streak could get it done, but we have seen how this team looks when shots aren’t falling and it ain’t pretty. Why? Because of the above.
How did last years team get their streaks going? Sure, there was inspired offensive plays from some players, but our bread and butter was a very solid defense. That hasn’t happened yet.
I wanna be optimistic like you. Heck, I also believed that getting Precious alone could have a very good impact on this team and its defense. But the way this team struggles is becoming a trend and TODAY every worst part of our team showed up: no defense, no focus taking care of the ball, no ball movement, overuse of the starters.
Will they improve? I do believe so, but no longer do I believe it will happen soon. No longer does it seem like we are a contender just finding our way. This team has A LOT of things to work out and it might take them until the last part of the season to get really close to.
Last years team isn’t here anymore. This is an offensive team. They will beat teams with elite offense. Defense needs to improve of course but it does not need to be elite.
Teams get hot and things start to click all the time in the NBA. The 54 win team in 2012 was a below .500 team with two major streaks baked in. That’s the story of most teams. It’s a streaky game.
VDesai wrote:Just a reminder for those that Brunson has been subpar - he is averaging 25.5 and 7.9 assists on 49 pct shooting, 40 pct from three and 85 pct from the line. He has another gear- but at this point the only thing he can do more of vs his career numbers is shoot.
He’s turning it up but there were a few games he failed us in the 4th Q when he normally delivers. Maybe stats don’t back this up and I’m wrong but I’d be curious to see his clutch numbers vs last year. Brunson delivering in the clutch in a couple losses is a drastically different narrative rn.
DLeethal wrote:We are 11-8 with a tough schedule and brand new team. Brunson overall has been subpar and our bench has been riddled with injuries. We have a cupcake month ahead where we will put together some win streaks and the team will get right and the record will look fine. Don’t think this team contends this year but with a little seasoning and savvy moves on the margins and we will get there. This was a 4 year play. Even Miami big 3 took awhile to figure out how to maximize their talent.this is it man... there is a lot of time. It's so early and we always seem to see Thib's cooking late.
I think the defense will improve. We need Mikal to play better. We need Precious back and the 20+ minutes of muscle we all knew he would give us. As far as competing we need Mitch to also come off the bench. This starting 5 with McBride/Precious/Mitch off the bench is the nightmare nobody wants to deal with
fishmike wrote:DLeethal wrote:We are 11-8 with a tough schedule and brand new team. Brunson overall has been subpar and our bench has been riddled with injuries. We have a cupcake month ahead where we will put together some win streaks and the team will get right and the record will look fine. Don’t think this team contends this year but with a little seasoning and savvy moves on the margins and we will get there. This was a 4 year play. Even Miami big 3 took awhile to figure out how to maximize their talent.this is it man... there is a lot of time. It's so early and we always seem to see Thib's cooking late.I think the defense will improve. We need Mikal to play better. We need Precious back and the 20+ minutes of muscle we all knew he would give us. As far as competing we need Mitch to also come off the bench. This starting 5 with McBride/Precious/Mitch off the bench is the nightmare nobody wants to deal with
The defense overall is the biggest worry for me. I’m not worried about Mikal finding his game or anything else. But we need to be a 15ish ranked defense and a top 3 offense. That’s our path and the D is a concern. KAT’s rim protection is by far ranked worst in the league. I’m not sure how we fix that but I’m hoping the versatility of Precious to play defensive 4/5 ends up being huge for this team. And I’m hoping the D gels over time. And maybe layering both Precious and Mitch into the rotation gives us a big defensive jolt.
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This is why our defense sucks now. iHart covered up so many mistakes after the perimeter players got beat. Now this is a dunk 95% of the time. We have to stop giving up 3's if we can't stop dunks.
Why so many of you are "Disgusted", go 3-2 on a road trip and the sky is falling.
OG is hurt but played great defense. Miller went 7-25!
Looking at the fist half stats my wife says "how they losing"?
Pace. Hornets slowed the game down. Its what you try to do with the leagues hottest offense. Slow them down.
I don't like bridges antics after making a shot. He either laughing with his mates or talking shit too much.
Where are the open cuts? What are teams now doing to take easy baskets away?
OG has no lift and falling. I think he is hurt.
We got Deuce back and he starting to look good.
Knicks looked tired.
The root on Hornets really played hard. they lost.
they got some good breaks down the stretch but could not take the lead back.
that rattler shot to end the game was funny as shit.
Sat with knicks fans and nobody was that upset like you guys were. Nobody thought could conceive the knicks were going to lost the game.
I congratulated the Hornets fans that there team played really hard and were well coached. They were like "we had like one guy that could crack their rotation (Miller).
Knicks got a win. who cares if if it was one point or 7?
guess what, until the bench gets sorted out and Precious and Mitch can make solid contributions there is no way we contend.
Hornets held knicks to under 100pts. That why the game was close.
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We was so close to being actual contenders. If Mitch could stop being injured for once the NBA would not have known how good iHart was.
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This is why our defense sucks now. iHart covered up so many mistakes after the perimeter players got beat. Now this is a dunk 95% of the time. We have to stop giving up 3's if we can't stop dunks.
Yes, this is part of the issue: relying on your center to cover up for everyone’s mistakes when your new center is not like that and you know it. I was expecting some tweaks in the defensive schemes to do just that, but so far we keep playing the same kind of defense without the cleaning up center and still expect to stop teams? What? KAT is awesome but he isn’t Mitch or iHart and if we can't realize that after 19 games I don’t have much hope for improvement other than Precious coming back and being in the starting lineup until Mitch fully returns.
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This is why our defense sucks now. iHart covered up so many mistakes after the perimeter players got beat. Now this is a dunk 95% of the time. We have to stop giving up 3's if we can't stop dunks.Yes, this is part of the issue: relying on your center to cover up for everyone’s mistakes when your new center is not like that and you know it. I was expecting some tweaks in the defensive schemes to do just that, but so far we keep playing the same kind of defense without the cleaning up center and still expect to stop teams? What? KAT is awesome but he isn’t Mitch or iHart and if we can't realize that after 19 games I don’t have much hope for improvement other than Precious coming back and being in the starting lineup until Mitch fully returns.
Our two defensive Centers are both hurt. We have 3rd and 4th stringers behind KAT. Let’s see what it looks like when Precious and/or Mitch get back. Precious could be getting 25 mins at backup C and some 4 when he gets back.
DLeethal wrote:Also the offense of the past couple years was always fools gold. It was a gimmick using offensive rebounding to inflate metrics. So we made a bet on becoming a legit championship offense and a 10-15th level defense with KAT. Defense is lagging but offense is there.
Yes! I been saying this to. Our defense was trash all those years if you take out the offensive rebounds. We were inefficient but beat teams by an overwhelming number of attempts. We just have to find the right balance and gameplanning to fit our new group of players. Thibs got to give Huk a try until other defensive bigs come back. That game where he went crazy on D was just what we need but he been benched ever since.
Clean wrote:DLeethal wrote:Also the offense of the past couple years was always fools gold. It was a gimmick using offensive rebounding to inflate metrics. So we made a bet on becoming a legit championship offense and a 10-15th level defense with KAT. Defense is lagging but offense is there.Yes! I been saying this to. Our defense was trash all those years if you take out the offensive rebounds. We just have to find the right balance and gameplanning to fit our new group of players. Thibs got to give Huk a try until other defensive bigs come back. That game where he went crazy on D was just what we need but he been benched ever since.
To me the clearest path is staggering KAT next to a big throughout the game. Just need to be able to put the clamps down for stretches when our offense isn’t carrying us. Precious on paper is a perfect guy for that.
DLeethal wrote:Clean wrote:DLeethal wrote:Also the offense of the past couple years was always fools gold. It was a gimmick using offensive rebounding to inflate metrics. So we made a bet on becoming a legit championship offense and a 10-15th level defense with KAT. Defense is lagging but offense is there.Yes! I been saying this to. Our defense was trash all those years if you take out the offensive rebounds. We just have to find the right balance and gameplanning to fit our new group of players. Thibs got to give Huk a try until other defensive bigs come back. That game where he went crazy on D was just what we need but he been benched ever since.
To me the clearest path is staggering KAT next to a big throughout the game. Just need to be able to put the clamps down for stretches when our offense isn’t carrying us. Precious on paper is a perfect guy for that.
Playing Kat with Precious and then having Mitch or Huk play center when KAT sits seems like it could improve our defense enough to be respectable. I don't care what the numbers say I don't feel Sims is good on D outside of some moments.
We've seen over the years how trades on the margins can have a crazy impact sometimes. Rose trade a few years back? Hart trade? Those trades transformed our seasons. OG too obviously but he's basically a star. Why can't Precious, Mitch, Shamet being added to the mix make a significant impact on this team? They can, and I bet they will along with some good old fashioned gelling.
DLeethal wrote:Right now our ORTG is 3rd. DRTG is 23rd. NETRTG is 9th. Also, the gap between the top 3 offenses and 4 and beyond is really big. Right now Boston, NY, CLE are well ahead of the pack and historically good on offense. Getting from 23rd to 15th on defense would probably bump our NETRTG up a significant amount.thank you... that and Mikal simply playing better shooting close to his career 3pg FG% and the Knicks are on fire. Also the style we need is what the hurt guys bring.We've seen over the years how trades on the margins can have a crazy impact sometimes. Rose trade a few years back? Hart trade? Those trades transformed our seasons. OG too obviously but he's basically a star. Why can't Precious, Mitch, Shamet being added to the mix make a significant impact on this team? They can, and I bet they will along with some good old fashioned gelling.