martin wrote:VDesai wrote:2/60 is justifiable but we absolutely cannot give him 4/156 based on his current level of play.
I wish they put out cap % numbers for that particular season cap instead of raw $ cause they don't always equate.
2/60 is somewhere in the $30M per and that does not feel like it is anywhere in the range of what he will get unless it is a massive discount like Brunson just took. 2/60 is the Jordan Poole from 3 years ago territory that GS gave him as a rookie extension before the massive TV contact kicked in. Essentially, you are saying that Mikal does not deserve a raise over his incredibly team friendly contract that he is on for another year right now.
I don't think that checks out. Have to adjust expectations for the new TV deal. He will get close to OG as a starting point IMHO.
Here is another way to look at it. Of the players who make above the MLE (~$13M), there are about 120 guys. A start point of $30M means you think Mikal is in the bottom half of the guys who make more than the MLE. I don't think that equates.
Mikal will get 4/156 IMHO, easily. OG got 4/165 with player option for 5th year.
Check out the comparisons: https://www.basketball-reference.com/con...
I rather trade Mikal before giving him that contract. Unless this is what it cost for a player who’s inconsistent on offense and 3rd on the pecking order. I understand the TV deals inflated salaries, but OG to me is way more impactful on both ends. Im just saying he’s played himself down to a team friendly contract.
Salaries keep going up and its hard for the fan to accurately predict costs and then down the road if its a good contract or not.
Some look bad at first then it sort of "normalizes" into fair value.
Not all picks are the same so I can't say our 5 are an awful deal or not. its easy to say we trade him but what comes back?
I assume his iron man status might not be at this level but I would assume he can sustain a 4 year extension. Quality of life matters and bopping around from team to team if he tries to max his earnings might not be great outcome. Its part of the job no doubt but if he cannot come to terms this summer he gets very well could get traded. How's Milwaukee sound? Utah? and don't forget the motor city.......Not dancing the in the streets. The Villanova thing is nice but guys can get traded so its not a certainty. Maybe Josh is not long for here? Maybe e You do a OG and Josh for Giannis (spitball concept, relax)??
I for one was never in the "OMG WE NEED MIKAL HERE" as I thought there was much hype about. What we have is PHX version of him. Perhaps some thought we get both the PHX role player that went deep in playoffs AND the BKN dude that flip a switch? The contrast of Jalen being a blessing few saw coming and KAT being a better player then expected, after the DDV revelation we just assumed Mikal would also rise above his pay grade? We were no doubt excited we could go toe to toe with Celtics and while Nalod will tell you every year there is always a team in the age of parity that will surprise you (we have been that team too!), I did not think it would be CLEV at this level! If any team was gone to surpass us it was potentially Indy or Orlando who did jump out early this season!
Fandom is like the Stock market and we don't like uncertainty. Im actually pretty content with this teams starting 5 and obviously have to work out the bench and some utility stuff to get to the promised land.
blkexec wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:2/60 is justifiable but we absolutely cannot give him 4/156 based on his current level of play.
I wish they put out cap % numbers for that particular season cap instead of raw $ cause they don't always equate.
2/60 is somewhere in the $30M per and that does not feel like it is anywhere in the range of what he will get unless it is a massive discount like Brunson just took. 2/60 is the Jordan Poole from 3 years ago territory that GS gave him as a rookie extension before the massive TV contact kicked in. Essentially, you are saying that Mikal does not deserve a raise over his incredibly team friendly contract that he is on for another year right now.
I don't think that checks out. Have to adjust expectations for the new TV deal. He will get close to OG as a starting point IMHO.
Here is another way to look at it. Of the players who make above the MLE (~$13M), there are about 120 guys. A start point of $30M means you think Mikal is in the bottom half of the guys who make more than the MLE. I don't think that equates.
Mikal will get 4/156 IMHO, easily. OG got 4/165 with player option for 5th year.
Check out the comparisons: https://www.basketball-reference.com/con...
I rather trade Mikal before giving him that contract. Unless this is what it cost for a player who’s inconsistent on offense and 3rd on the pecking order. I understand the TV deals inflated salaries, but OG to me is way more impactful on both ends. Im just saying he’s played himself down to a team friendly contract.
I think we need to trade him - not so much for the contract we’ll have to give him- though I agree likely too much given his play this year- to get depth- like to get 2 role players that can give Thibs 20 minutes a nite. To some degree- his talent is over kill for his role.
Seeing how much more aggressive Bridges is without Brunson on the court. As others have mentioned, I'd like to see Thibs experiment with Bridges off the bench. Not so much for this season, but looking forward. Bridges as a starter with Brunson doesnt bring out his best.
If Bridges could show a 6th man of the year game as a bench player, that would be a reason to keep him in NY, if he doesnt ask for the moon.
It's the extra stuff and intangibles that are turning me off to Bridges. Crying to the media about minutes and not having your teammates back against his arch rival who called him soft are two strikes imo.
SergioNYK wrote:It's the extra stuff and intangibles that are turning me off to Bridges. Crying to the media about minutes and not having your teammates back against his arch rival who called him soft are two strikes imo.
Fredo...
What don't we know? Did Green apologize to KAT?
I am not a Dray fan at all, but this is between Dray and Kat and maybe they good.
Also, perhaps Bridges has a long relationship with Dray and maybe privately call him out prior?
Dray's comments were off base. But its not our beef, its Kats.
Maybe having his back in this day means they told Dray he was misinformed and take care of it.
This is not like one owe money to Oak and he slap you stuff, these guys have relationships and its the fans domain to know it all.
Have we read Kat is upset at his mates for not having his back? Or did they already "have his back" prior to the hug?
Whoa I wss actually joking
There’s only one basketball. Brunson one of the top scorers in the nba, KAT, Hart and OG regularly fill up stat sheets. Mikal under normal circumstances isn’t going to be averaging a triple double.
Panos wrote:Fwiw, his shot from the elbow is like automatic. If he's just not getting enough opportunities from there when JB is in, that needs to be addressed.
We don’t attempt enough 3’s as a whole but Mikal the one guy on the roster who should be shooting more from mid-range where he is lethal.
Philc1 wrote:Panos wrote:Fwiw, his shot from the elbow is like automatic. If he's just not getting enough opportunities from there when JB is in, that needs to be addressed.
We don’t attempt enough 3’s as a whole but Mikal the one guy on the roster who should be shooting more from mid-range where he is lethal.
Looking at his stats https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla... rather than speaking in a simple thought his career is rather interesting. I would not say inconsistent as he demonstrates to what the team needs from him. His peak PHX years were good and they were a growing team that did do rather well. his BKN numbers inflated given his role, and his season thus far is not awful. One can make an argument to support nearly any position. His minutes are up and he is avg 37min per, a career high. A look at his 36 per stats show he is actually shooting more 2pt except his stint in BKN. Same for 3pt shooting. Again, this is just his per 36.
Nothing jumps off the paper to suggest we the fan (especially Phil) can actually say what he should or should not do. I take it knicks coaching and analytics guru have it figured out. Execution is always a different story.
We tend to factor in "5 draft picks" even if we don't actually know where they land, as a sort of value measuring stick. Thibs, commonly called the most prepared coach in the the professional world I think is far more informed then any of us.
If we are truly trying to construct a championship caliber team its not always about the individual stats but the chemistry of achieving that goal. Fandom likes to have dudes that did it before but Leon has never constructed a team nor has Thibs been head coach. He did assist Boston with pierce/Garnett coached by Doc Rivers.
Thibs has to make the tough decisions of who plays, how much, who shoots, who much, etc etc. They have to figure out in the new parity era how much to pay these guys and project how others will fair and compete. Players have to execute the most brilliant schematics as if they don't it all looks bad.
We get to second guess the result and have the luxury of leaving out important facts to bend our argument.
We are third in the east and have yet to demonstrate prolificacy with top 3 teams who have better records.
Question is our ceiling higher this year compared to last year? Is this year really the year or as mentioned we need more time to round out the roster? If so, can we really expect all our guys to be here in the next 2-3 years?
Logic says of course not.
Bridges has really come into his own the last few games with JB out and having more usage, his confidence has definitely gone up, and he's scoring in more varied ways. Even his defense has looked better. I hope he can keep up his impact when Brunson returns!
Bridges skillset is really nice. His mid range pull ups are elite. We really need to get him and JB going more together down the stretch of games. They both have a deadly skillset to close out games with mid range buckets.
The last stretch of Mikal shows you that the team is still a work in progress in so many ways. We haven't unlocked the best usage. While Mikal's handles/passing sometimes leave something to be desired, he did a good job of reading doubles last night, and if you iso him 1 on 1 he can get to his spot and is deadly with the mid range pull up. So riddle me this, instead of Brunson getting trapped all the way down the stretch - if you let Mikal iso some possessions - you can't double him and you're probably not doubling Brunson off ball and so what are you gonna do, leave Josh and double Mikal or KAT? Leave the paint open for Josh and OG to cut and finish? The Knicks should not be having issues scoring down the stretch of games if we can play off Jalen and Mikal's ISO prowess.
franco12 wrote:blkexec wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:2/60 is justifiable but we absolutely cannot give him 4/156 based on his current level of play.
I wish they put out cap % numbers for that particular season cap instead of raw $ cause they don't always equate.
2/60 is somewhere in the $30M per and that does not feel like it is anywhere in the range of what he will get unless it is a massive discount like Brunson just took. 2/60 is the Jordan Poole from 3 years ago territory that GS gave him as a rookie extension before the massive TV contact kicked in. Essentially, you are saying that Mikal does not deserve a raise over his incredibly team friendly contract that he is on for another year right now.
I don't think that checks out. Have to adjust expectations for the new TV deal. He will get close to OG as a starting point IMHO.
Here is another way to look at it. Of the players who make above the MLE (~$13M), there are about 120 guys. A start point of $30M means you think Mikal is in the bottom half of the guys who make more than the MLE. I don't think that equates.
Mikal will get 4/156 IMHO, easily. OG got 4/165 with player option for 5th year.
Check out the comparisons: https://www.basketball-reference.com/con...
I rather trade Mikal before giving him that contract. Unless this is what it cost for a player who’s inconsistent on offense and 3rd on the pecking order. I understand the TV deals inflated salaries, but OG to me is way more impactful on both ends. Im just saying he’s played himself down to a team friendly contract.
I think we need to trade him - not so much for the contract we’ll have to give him- though I agree likely too much given his play this year- to get depth- like to get 2 role players that can give Thibs 20 minutes a nite. To some degree- his talent is over kill for his role.
wild take
he's getting paid that OG contract and it's worth it. He's struggled to his the 3 this year at times, but he's shown what he's all about. He can play any role he's asked, never missed games, hit's big shots, makes big stops, can carry an offense when guys are out or he's hot.
If we win a title it will be because we were able to keep these guys together. OG/Bridges are obvious pricey and the lack of depth is obviously a concern but damn what they can do is top shelf. There are guys who are going to help us compete for a title.
fishmike wrote:he's getting paid that OG contract and it's worth it. He's struggled to his the 3 this year at times, but he's shown what he's all about. He can play any role he's asked, never missed games, hit's big shots, makes big stops, can carry an offense when guys are out or he's hot. If we win a title it will be because we were able to keep these guys together. OG/Bridges are obvious pricey and the lack of depth is obviously a concern but damn what they can do is top shelf. There are guys who are going to help us compete for a title.
Clearly this is not a Mikal issue, but a Thigs issue. If he can't find a way to get the most out of Mikal, next to JB, then let Mikal run with the second unit where he's the #1 option. He's better in that role, than the #4 option behind JB, Towns, OG. Hard to pay Mikal OG money to play with the second unit. Yes, the goal is to keep them together and if you have to over pay, you do it. The pressure will fall on Thibs to make the right rotation. Mikal and Kolek seems like a better pairing to me, but maybe JB sitting out help him see how he can get Mikal and others going.
Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.
blkexec wrote:Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.
That's the crux of it
blkexec wrote:Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.
we didnt give up those picks just for Bridges. We did it because he's the perfect playing to pair with Brunson if you want to see how far Brunson's finishing can take you in the playoffs.
What's the ideal SG next to Brunson?
long elite defender who can switch between guards/wings
non ball dominant or off ball player
shooter/slasher/cutter (floor spacer)
secondary ball handler
Of all those things the only thing Mikal lacks is ball handling. He's not a TO waiting to happen but doesnt look great in that role (Josh usually does that and has killed that role)
The REAL bottom line are the playoffs. Regular season means something, but it's mid term at best and the playoffs count for 60% of your grade. Mikal has such potential to be a force for us. Fingers crossed. I have high hopes
