Knicks · Should we freak out about Bridges? (page 12)

blkexec wrote:Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.

What's the ideal SG next to Brunson?
long elite defender who can switch between guards/wings
non ball dominant or off ball player
shooter/slasher/cutter (floor spacer)
secondary ball handler

Of all those things the only thing Mikal lacks is ball handling. He's not a TO waiting to happen but doesnt look great in that role (Josh usually does that and has killed that role)

The REAL bottom line are the playoffs. Regular season means something, but it's mid term at best and the playoffs count for 60% of your grade. Mikal has such potential to be a force for us. Fingers crossed. I have high hopes

I think it's significant we have the best starting 5 though almost a whole season. Bridges is a huge part of that IMO.

If we had a healthy bench.. if McBride and Mitch were healthy and gave us 65-70 games we are challenging the Celtics for the 2 seed for sure.

I also think it's super fixable (likely not till the offseason). I absolutely think we can make a deep run and upset Cle/Bos or both IF we go into the postseason with healthy 7... that's our 5 + Mitch/McBride. I do NOT think that's likely. Mitch might make it but McBride's been gimpy all year and with a groin it aint looking good.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.

That's the crux of it

I mean Mikal needs to figure it out too. They player is not absolved for finding the right fit/spots. There has been a lack of assertiveness at times. I think OG has been assertive all year, or at least started that way and then got into a long physical lull in December/Jan/Feb. He seems to have his legs again and he's been really aggressive. Mikal has not been assertive in taking on contact and has floated offensively a little too often.

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.

That's the crux of it

I mean Mikal needs to figure it out too. They player is not absolved for finding the right fit/spots. There has been a lack of assertiveness at times. I think OG has been assertive all year, or at least started that way and then got into a long physical lull in December/Jan/Feb. He seems to have his legs again and he's been really aggressive. Mikal has not been assertive in taking on contact and has floated offensively a little too often.

fishmike wrote:

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.

That's the crux of it

I mean Mikal needs to figure it out too. They player is not absolved for finding the right fit/spots. There has been a lack of assertiveness at times. I think OG has been assertive all year, or at least started that way and then got into a long physical lull in December/Jan/Feb. He seems to have his legs again and he's been really aggressive. Mikal has not been assertive in taking on contact and has floated offensively a little too often.

I agree and this might be my favorite part of having Brunson here and being our Captain. The leadership floor general aspect of his game is huge. I really think he will put it on himself to get guys going as well.

When JB, KAT and OG are on the floor, Mikal defers too much. He's a rhythm scorer who needs to dribble to his spot. And he's hot and cold, when forced into a role he's not comfortable in (4th option on offense).

Even though Mikal is also a catch and shoot player, that's not his strength....He's hot and cold in that role. Dribble downhill into a midrange pullup? He's above 50% and shoots those in his sleep. But there are players who are truly catch and shoot vs dribble and shoot fadeaway middies.

Who fits best next to JB you asked Fish? Thats a discussion for the off season. Even though I think the Nova crew are here to stay, Mikal just have to improve that part of his game in the off season. Right now, the goal is to get Mikal right, once JB is back. If he's starting, need to make it work period. And hopefully JB (and the team) can help get Mikal going. Thigs and the team needs him.

I haven’t completely given up hope of Zion getting traded to the Knicks. Of these two scenarios, I prefer bringing Bridges off the bench. I believe he would thrive there. And with Mitch in the paint, maybe Kolek running the 2nd unit next season. We would have a much improved bench.

If that’s not the plan, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Bridges sign and trade for Zion. As the main part of a deal. Pelicans would get the Ironman they need.
I would rather roll with Zion as a starter than Bridges and his consistently deferring to his teammates.

I’ve been impressed with how well OG is holding up. The medical/training staff seem to be doing a good job of helping keep OG playing vs. the Raptors staff. Maybe they can work some magic with Zion. A starting lineup with a healthy Zion could get us past Boston.

VDesai wrote:19 games in - he is non-entity on defense, he is a turnover machine and he's an atrocity shooting the basketball. We gave up 6 first rounders for him. All we needed from him is good defense and Corner 3s, with the occasional creation off the bounce. Suns Bridges not Nets Bridges.

Now is literally killing us out there. Do we bench him? Do we take him out of the rotation for a bit? Do we trade him? Do we just stay the course. WHAT DO WE DO??????

This move literally closes our championship window if he continues to play like this as it cost all of our draft capital and the Towns deal closed our cap flexibility. I'm not freaking out about Towns (even if wasn't great today or the game before), but I haven't seen any signs of Bridges being useful.

Love guy as player and many talents
One attribute Bridges don't have is some
On demand toughness

He gotta GLASS CHIN
I ain't talking about real fighting either

NBA Hoops isn't a soft Pro sport,
Gotta be tough. BRIDGES Talented but folds up his tent too soon & often.

He need to learn more toughness from his 2 animal Dogs 🐕 😤

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Mikal needs a playmaking PG. And it's always a challenge to be both a scorer and playmaker. But this is JB and Thibs role to figure out. JB alone will not get us far. But getting the most out of OG and Mikal will take this team far into the playoffs.

That's the crux of it

I mean Mikal needs to figure it out too. They player is not absolved for finding the right fit/spots. There has been a lack of assertiveness at times. I think OG has been assertive all year, or at least started that way and then got into a long physical lull in December/Jan/Feb. He seems to have his legs again and he's been really aggressive. Mikal has not been assertive in taking on contact and has floated offensively a little too often.

I agree and this might be my favorite part of having Brunson here and being our Captain. The leadership floor general aspect of his game is huge. I really think he will put it on himself to get guys going as well.

When JB, KAT and OG are on the floor, Mikal defers too much. He's a rhythm scorer who needs to dribble to his spot. And he's hot and cold, when forced into a role he's not comfortable in (4th option on offense).

Even though Mikal is also a catch and shoot player, that's not his strength....He's hot and cold in that role. Dribble downhill into a midrange pullup? He's above 50% and shoots those in his sleep. But there are players who are truly catch and shoot vs dribble and shoot fadeaway middies.

Who fits best next to JB you asked Fish? Thats a discussion for the off season. Even though I think the Nova crew are here to stay, Mikal just have to improve that part of his game in the off season. Right now, the goal is to get Mikal right, once JB is back. If he's starting, need to make it work period. And hopefully JB (and the team) can help get Mikal going. Thigs and the team needs him.

Divo was a better catch and shoot player that lacked in the other areas, like defense, finishing at the basket, passing and shot creation. Mikal would thrive in a system where he knows when he is expected to catch and shoot( he does this ok already) and where he will receive the ball when rolling to the hoop and when he is a part of a passing play and when he NEEDS to go to his midrange. Right now it's a random mix of whatever happens happens.

Divo's job was simpler. Only catch and shoot. Mikal is capable of so much more

DLeethal wrote:Hate to say it but everything we dislike about this years team in terms of grit, toughness, and inspiring basketball is embodied through Mikal Bridges. Very talented finesse player, but soft and sketchy mental makeup. No fire to him at all.

I completely agree with this.

GustavBahler wrote:Another game where Bridges was too passive at times.

I haven’t completely given up hope of Zion getting traded to the Knicks. Of these two scenarios, I prefer bringing Bridges off the bench. I believe he would thrive there. And with Mitch in the paint, maybe Kolek running the 2nd unit next season. We would have a much improved bench.

If that’s not the plan, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Bridges sign and trade for Zion. As the main part of a deal. Pelicans would get the Ironman they need.
I would rather roll with Zion as a starter than Bridges and his consistently deferring to his teammates.

I’ve been impressed with how well OG is holding up. The medical/training staff seem to be doing a good job of helping keep OG playing vs. the Raptors staff. Maybe they can work some magic with Zion. A starting lineup with a healthy Zion could get us past Boston.

you're gonna be sick when they extend Bridges in the offseason for something around 33M

Rookie wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Another game where Bridges was too passive at times.

I haven’t completely given up hope of Zion getting traded to the Knicks. Of these two scenarios, I prefer bringing Bridges off the bench. I believe he would thrive there. And with Mitch in the paint, maybe Kolek running the 2nd unit next season. We would have a much improved bench.

If that’s not the plan, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Bridges sign and trade for Zion. As the main part of a deal. Pelicans would get the Ironman they need.
I would rather roll with Zion as a starter than Bridges and his consistently deferring to his teammates.

I’ve been impressed with how well OG is holding up. The medical/training staff seem to be doing a good job of helping keep OG playing vs. the Raptors staff. Maybe they can work some magic with Zion. A starting lineup with a healthy Zion could get us past Boston.

you're gonna be sick when they extend Bridges in the offseason for something around 33M

I will be sick too. Interestingly enough, his offensive skilllset is nearly unguardable. Great from 3 and the fadeaway midrange is on Dirk/Jordan level.

DLeethal wrote:Hate to say it but everything we dislike about this years team in terms of grit, toughness, and inspiring basketball is embodied through Mikal Bridges. Very talented finesse player, but soft and sketchy mental makeup. No fire to him at all.

Mikal certainly does not have the beefy on court persona of DDV or Randle but they guy plays every game, plays the most minutes in the league, guards one of the best offensive players on the opposing team all the while averaging 18ppg.

Mikal has literally won games for the Knicks on both ends of the court on last second plays.

I guess hate the player 'tude but not the performance?

VDesai wrote:We spent 5 first rounders so the likes of Cade would not embarrass us in the playoffs. Maybe Cade has befome so transcendant no one can guard him - but this is a great opportunity for Mikal to earn his extension.

For me, it seemed to take iHart more than a season and maybe up to 2 seasons to find his footing in NY. Some of it was due to his achilles the first year, some of it was opportunity playing behind Mitch.

Some times is just takes time for players to sort out things within the team environment. We shall see.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:We spent 5 first rounders so the likes of Cade would not embarrass us in the playoffs. Maybe Cade has befome so transcendant no one can guard him - but this is a great opportunity for Mikal to earn his extension.

For me, it seemed to take iHart more than a season and maybe up to 2 seasons to find his footing in NY. Some of it was due to his achilles the first year, some of it was opportunity playing behind Mitch.

Some times is just takes time for players to sort out things within the team environment. We shall see.

I dont disagree - but I might hold off on the extension talks without more conclusions on whether he actually can fill the role he was acquired for.

I think we wind up with OG on Cade down the final mins but Mikal early. And im not saying he has to shut him down - but can we keep him averaging under 30 ppg this series?

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:We spent 5 first rounders so the likes of Cade would not embarrass us in the playoffs. Maybe Cade has befome so transcendant no one can guard him - but this is a great opportunity for Mikal to earn his extension.

For me, it seemed to take iHart more than a season and maybe up to 2 seasons to find his footing in NY. Some of it was due to his achilles the first year, some of it was opportunity playing behind Mitch.

Some times is just takes time for players to sort out things within the team environment. We shall see.

I dont disagree - but I might hold off on the extension talks without more conclusions on whether he actually can fill the role he was acquired for.

I think we wind up with OG on Cade down the final mins but Mikal early. And im not saying he has to shut him down - but can we keep him averaging under 30 ppg this series?

Lets be clear, Im not letting Bridges walk out the door. Im not saying we get back equal value but as long as he is marketable im resigning him.
We played that game with OG and did fine. Mikal will get his bag from us and if deemed not a good fit I can't imagine his value drops significantly should it be determined there is a chemistry issue or his bag request is not feasible.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:We spent 5 first rounders so the likes of Cade would not embarrass us in the playoffs. Maybe Cade has befome so transcendant no one can guard him - but this is a great opportunity for Mikal to earn his extension.

For me, it seemed to take iHart more than a season and maybe up to 2 seasons to find his footing in NY. Some of it was due to his achilles the first year, some of it was opportunity playing behind Mitch.

Some times is just takes time for players to sort out things within the team environment. We shall see.

Also bears mentioning iHart was comfortable in his role midway through his first season. Not saying Bridges hasnt had his games, but its still doesnt feel like he is entirely comfortable with what he ks doing in each game. We want him to guard ball handlers but i dont think he likes guarding ballhandlers?

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:We spent 5 first rounders so the likes of Cade would not embarrass us in the playoffs. Maybe Cade has befome so transcendant no one can guard him - but this is a great opportunity for Mikal to earn his extension.

For me, it seemed to take iHart more than a season and maybe up to 2 seasons to find his footing in NY. Some of it was due to his achilles the first year, some of it was opportunity playing behind Mitch.

Some times is just takes time for players to sort out things within the team environment. We shall see.

Also bears mentioning iHart was comfortable in his role midway through his first season. Not saying Bridges hasnt had his games, but its still doesnt feel like he is entirely comfortable with what he ks doing in each game. We want him to guard ball handlers but i dont think he likes guarding ballhandlers?

yes, I would love for Bridge's to eat Cade's lunch. But is that really the barometer for success here? I think that's as absurd as Mike Budenholzer telling Bradley Beal that he's their Jrue Holliday

I have never believed Mikal Bridges to be Bruce Bowen. I view him at his best as a B+ scorer and a B+ defender. I view him a guy who can succeed without needing to be featured. We just added another guy who is being featured by us, and last year we added another guy who all of a sudden look like peak Kawhi. I would argue all those other guys have to figure it out completely before Bridges will get his chance to figure it out completely

Lastly, the way for him to 'redeem' himself isn't by clamping anyone down. The way he redeems himself is to continue to stay available, and when Brunson, KAT, or OG gets injured and then Bridges steps in and its like nothing bad happened