blkexec wrote:So from I’m hearing in this thread:
1. Some are saying getting out of 2nd round would vindicate the off season trades.
2. I’m saying wait until Mitch comes back or after trade deadline to ask this question. Most of these teams we blew out sucks. And the losses we’ve had against teams that sucks was terrible. Against the Celtics and cavs we looked horrible. But maybe this 2 game winning streak lit a 🔥 for us to go on a run.
Might even have to wait until the summer of 2026 or 2027 to see the net real effect of it all.
How KAT held up injury wise?
What became of Randle? DDV?
if we did not win a chip was it worth it? Did we contend and was it fun?
Did Mitch come back is part of the story for sure. Was he traded, resigned, walk? Did we sign free agents with his cap space?
Did Huk pan out? Is Jericho still stoned? Dadiet the man? Tyler?
3 years is along time. By then we might have conspiracy that Kobe is still alive and Lebron is winning another MVP at 43?
We screwed over Julius… and Donte. There is no vindication. No win makes that okay, IMO.
I think we could have won it all before the off-season moves. And I think we can win it now. In either scenario, Julius made it possible.
Hopefully all parties go on to great success.
In closing, f*** Jaime. If not for the shoulder injury, we’d have already hung another in the rafters. Boston was gifted that championship.
We for sure screwed over Donte if he came here for more reasons than just money. Not cool in my book to sign a free agent looking for a home and then trade him.
Jules asked for a big contract. Rumor was he and knicks were far a part. Maybe he called Leons bluff.
Jules and iHart with a healthy Mitch did look pretty darn good last year!
Add Mikal to what might have been?
iHart outplayed his contract and OKC jumped on it.
We are on the rise and beating the teams we should be. We are good.
How good? We'll find out in April, perhaps May, hopefully into June!
ToddTT wrote:We screwed over Julius… and Donte. There is no vindication. No win makes that okay, IMO.I think we could have won it all before the off-season moves. And I think we can win it now. In either scenario, Julius made it possible.
We never had a shot at winning once iHart left. Can you imagine Randle as the full time starting center right now?
This team looks dangerous. The next real test will be the next Boston game. We were not ready that first game of the season. The next game will tell if we really are championship contenders. But in either case, I am happy with the moves. Loved Donte, but Shampet can be his replacement. KAT is light years better than Randle. He is far more mobile than I thought, and he is a much better passer and rebounder. Plus, his efficiency is off the charts. The ball moves more freely now. Jalen does not have to dominate every possession and now can just pick his spots.
The lens with which I am looking at the off-season is the trade that sent a guard and a big for a big that resulted in the Knicks getting the best player. Walt Bellamy and Butch Komives for Dave DeBusschere.
DeBusschere, like OG, was a defensive beast that could cover several positions. The trades allowed players who had been playing out of position at power forward, Reed and KAT, to move to the pivot and open up a no-stick offense.
https://from-way-downtown.com/2022/04/04...
Old time fans will prolly agree that trade worked out well.
lurts wrote:
The lens with which I am looking at the off-season is the trade that sent a guard and a big for a big that resulted in the Knicks getting the best player. Walt Bellamy and Butch Komives for Dave DeBusschere.
DeBusschere, like OG, was a defensive beast that could cover several positions. The trades allowed players who had been playing out of position at power forward, Reed and KAT, to move to the pivot and open up a no-stick offense.
https://from-way-downtown.com/2022/04/04...
Old time fans will prolly agree that trade worked out well.
You win trades in the nba by getting quality of quantity. The KAT trade we gave up two good players for a superstar. Look at our history of trades that worked out. An old starks, terry cummings and some other scrub for Latrell Sprewell. Oakley for Camby. Talent always wins out over numbers in the nba.
ToddTT wrote:We screwed over Julius… and Donte. There is no vindication. No win makes that okay, IMO.I think we could have won it all before the off-season moves. And I think we can win it now. In either scenario, Julius made it possible.
Hopefully all parties go on to great success.
In closing, f*** Jaime. If not for the shoulder injury, we’d have already hung another in the rafters. Boston was gifted that championship.
It's the nature of the beast. We didn't screw over Julius, just like iHart didn't screw us over. He did what was best for him and the FO did what was best for this team. Clearly, the Randle experiment had run its course becuase the FO was ready to move on by not extending him which was smart, imo. The trade made us a better team which is what the FO is supposed to do...
Jules set his price. What we don't know is what that was and he is smart enough to know that it creates a trade.
What else don't we know? Did DDV get the same offer from Minny last year? If he did, and he came to NYC to be with his buds, and get that nice 4 year deal, buy a house, settle in , then we trade him? Maybe we screwed him. Not cool to sign guys like that the move them.
But he got paid and its a business.
What is Jules goal? We assume all guys want a chip, and they do, but business is business.
He signed here and it was great. He got to be All NBA and all-star. he resigned on a. reasonable deal. That was not going to happen again. Maybe with ihart staying there was another play. We don't know. We rarely do.
Uptown wrote:ToddTT wrote:We screwed over Julius… and Donte. There is no vindication. No win makes that okay, IMO.I think we could have won it all before the off-season moves. And I think we can win it now. In either scenario, Julius made it possible.
Hopefully all parties go on to great success.
In closing, f*** Jaime. If not for the shoulder injury, we’d have already hung another in the rafters. Boston was gifted that championship.
It's the nature of the beast. We didn't screw over Julius, just like iHart didn't screw us over. He did what was best for him and the FO did what was best for this team. Clearly, the Randle experiment had run its course becuase the FO was ready to move on by not extending him which was smart, imo. The trade made us a better team which is what the FO is supposed to do...
The Knicks reinvigorated Randle’s career he was basically considered a bust with the lakers and hornets before coming here.
Not a bust. He was a one and done at KU, then with lakers and if you look at his career there, which started at age 20 he got better each year.
He broke his leg game one. Sat his rookie year.
Why did lakers let him walk? They needed his cap to sign Lebron as a free agent.
He signed with the Pelicans and had a career year there for 18mm over two years with a player options after one year. Why was he not traded or signed for more?
He is Randle thats why. Have to hand it to him, he believed in himself and made good on the opportunities in NOLA and NY.
We didn't screw over anyone. This is the NBA. We did what we felt was best for our team and made a trade. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah, I've probably been looking at things wrong.
Julius should have never signed a team-friendly deal in 2021. He should have demanded a trade to go play with superstars.
And when fans were booing and stomping on his poster, the thumbs down should have actually been two middle fingers, while yelling "f*** y'all".
ToddTT wrote:Yeah, I've probably been looking at things wrong.Julius should have never signed a team-friendly deal in 2021. He should have demanded a trade to go play with superstars.
And when fans were booing and stomping on his poster, the thumbs down should have actually been two middle fingers, while yelling "f*** y'all".
Yeah. Pretty sure you are wrong.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:blkexec wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.
Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.
But most would agree with you.
FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.
If we lose in the second round again, it might not be the trade but the coach. Not predicting anything, just have to see what happens.
Fire Thibs thread?
Don’t think that’s fair. One, Team is still coming together but can’t say we are complete.
Still have some holes to fill. Hopefully another scorer off the bench and MR back is enough.
Two, Saying it’s the coaches fault is too easy. Everyone hyping up how good we are after a win over the Wolves and then blaming coach if those players lay eggs in the playoffs would be weak.
Reflexively giving any coach a pass, months before the playoffs, for an early exit, is weak.Especially with all the talent on this roster. Still a lot of games to play, more trades might be made as well. We dont know who we will be playing, the team we face might have their own roster issues, like injuries for example, anything could happen.
All I did was raise the possibility that a second round loss might be due to something other than the roster, and just the roster. That Thibs might get outcoached in the playoffs. Not the certainty that a loss will have to do with coaching, only the possibility.
As I said, we have to see how things play out, not assigning blame in advance. Nothing biased about that.
You know what’s weaker? Making up some scenario about a second round loss and reflexively making an assumption about who is the culprit.
Knicks had a pretty badass team last January and we still lost in the second round but it was a glorious run. Cause stuff happens.
Do you guys just harp on end of world scenarios? I don’t get that
Thats stupid, because I only said that Thibs might get outcoached in a potential second round loss, not that he will. It might not be about the roster and nothing else. Which was the only scenario offered upthread for an early exit.
Good coaches sometimes get outcoached, happens all the time. Not to acknowledge this fact is silly.
Last season we went into the playoffs very shorthanded. Thibs did a good job. If we dont have the same injury issues as last season, and we still lose in the second round to a Cavs or Celtics squad. Maybe who are missing one or more important pieces due to injury. Maybe just maybe we got outcoached. Xs and Os.
You are stating flat out that there is no way Thibs can get outcoached in the playoffs when you wont even acknowledge that he just might face a better coach early in the playoffs. Not that he will, that he might.
I didn’t state anything. You can leave your words out of mine.
You don’t really have a good grasp of how coaching decisions are made. This is not a whim level thing, as you infer.
This is just you not really understanding how someone like Leon makes decisions.
the bold is part of what makes this team so enjoyable to follow. After 4 years this FO has a clear body of work. My god maybe go look at the team they took over how things were the prior (insert any number) years.
Think Leon doesnt know EXACTLY what Thibs brings and doesnt bring? Guys have built a culture and you still have a fan base building false narratives on what MIGHT happen. Phuck man get some air.
Anyway it's Boston and everyone else. We beat a Donovan led Cavs team. Would have handled the Pacers. Beat Embiid's stooges. Bucks/Heat/Orl/Atl all present pains in the asses but are a big lump. It's Boston and the rest.
Also this core is all around 27-29 and all the types of players who find ways to get better, add wrinkles, and elevate teammates. We are really set up for team continuity which will be a first. It would surely seem like "this is the core" and by that mean this starting 5. Looks like a 4 year run based on the current CBA
IMHO only DDV was kinda screwed. It's a business and he got paid and is a pro. So ....
NYKBocker wrote:IMHO only DDV was kinda screwed. It's a business and he got paid and is a pro. So ....
Kind of. Hard to tell with the news stories. He had no promise of starting. He earned that role last year. The Bridges trade made it a competition. That’s NBA life. If he presented any unwillingness to compete for the starting job or come off the bench, he was not screwed. If he took “less money” to play with his friends, well, then he got fucked.
EwingsGlass wrote:NYKBocker wrote:IMHO only DDV was kinda screwed. It's a business and he got paid and is a pro. So ....
Kind of. Hard to tell with the news stories. He had no promise of starting. He earned that role last year. The Bridges trade made it a competition. That’s NBA life. If he presented any unwillingness to compete for the starting job or come off the bench, he was not screwed. If he took “less money” to play with his friends, well, then he got fucked.
JFC.
EwingsGlass wrote:NYKBocker wrote:IMHO only DDV was kinda screwed. It's a business and he got paid and is a pro. So ....
Kind of. Hard to tell with the news stories. He had no promise of starting. He earned that role last year. The Bridges trade made it a competition. That’s NBA life. If he presented any unwillingness to compete for the starting job or come off the bench, he was not screwed. If he took “less money” to play with his friends, well, then he got fucked.
DDV got a 4 year $50 million contract from us. I seriously doubt any other team including the warriors who were up against the apron were offering more money and years.
That game did vindicate one thing for me. I'd go Hathaway over Rossum 8/10.
I’m still getting used to us winning games a different way. We used to get every offensive rebound and 50/50 ball. Winning games that way is fun and really noticeable. I’m still not used to this team winning games with talent first if that makes sense.
