Knicks · Play the Kids. Ive Had Enough of the 8 Man Rotation (page 1)
Knicks searching for player development-focused coachBut some of the blame also goes to the bench beyond those veterans. League sources have indicated that at the highest reaches of the franchise, there is a bit of panic and finger-pointing going on. The Knicks have three rookies on the roster who have made little impact despite a deep roster of player development coaches. Westchester Knicks coach Desagana Diop recently became the first coach to win back-to-back titles in the G League Winter Showcase. But a league source indicated that the Knicks have been searching for a player development-focused coach to head the program, reaching out for permission to speak with candidates and putting the onus on speeding the learning curve for the young players on the NBA roster. – via Newsday
I guess they miss Jonny Bryant after all
Finger pointing. Concern about the three draft picks sitting? I mean, they're young, inexperienced, but when they've gotten time, they've shown flashes that they belong, and likely would be playing on other teams that weren't coached by Thibs.
I'm not saying they'd be helping us win games - maybe yes we'd lose some, but the starters wouldn't be burnt out at the midpoint of the season.
And what exactly is the plan for when OG goes down? I mean, I am shocked he hasn't come up lame with some injury.
And if Kat goes down, do we just wave the flag and give up on the season?
franco12 wrote:Can we get Mike Miller back?Finger pointing. Concern about the three draft picks sitting? I mean, they're young, inexperienced, but when they've gotten time, they've shown flashes that they belong, and likely would be playing on other teams that weren't coached by Thibs.
I'm not saying they'd be helping us win games - maybe yes we'd lose some, but the starters wouldn't be burnt out at the midpoint of the season.
And what exactly is the plan for when OG goes down? I mean, I am shocked he hasn't come up lame with some injury.
And if Kat goes down, do we just wave the flag and give up on the season?
I'll take late season injuries for 50O.
What is the state of Knicks if KAT goes down?
That would be an early playoff exit,Alex
ramtour420 wrote:franco12 wrote:Can we get Mike Miller back?Finger pointing. Concern about the three draft picks sitting? I mean, they're young, inexperienced, but when they've gotten time, they've shown flashes that they belong, and likely would be playing on other teams that weren't coached by Thibs.
I'm not saying they'd be helping us win games - maybe yes we'd lose some, but the starters wouldn't be burnt out at the midpoint of the season.
And what exactly is the plan for when OG goes down? I mean, I am shocked he hasn't come up lame with some injury.
And if Kat goes down, do we just wave the flag and give up on the season?
I'll take late season injuries for 50O.What is the state of Knicks if KAT goes down?
That would be an early playoff exit,Alex
What is the backup plan?
What is a 7 man rotation Alex
Was Johnny Bryant part to he player development staff? I don't know.
Also, can't tell by looking at the names what's wrong.
On the staff: https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office
I do see they are shopping for one. They do need yoot to step up either this year or next.
Not saying they should be ready by now.
The FO can put an ad on Craigslist for a new developmental coach. Or Rose can tell Thibs to use his bench, let them learn from mistakes.
GustavBahler wrote:Thibs has shown with some prospects that he’s willing to put up with the mistakes, willing to play the role of developmental coach. Like he was with RJ ,Deuce, IQ. Others Thibs has shown zero tolerance for mistakes. Willing to bench players immediately for mistakes, rookie mistakes. Treating recent draft picks as if they should already have it all figured out.The FO can put an ad on Craigslist for a new developmental coach. Or Rose can tell Thibs to use his bench, let them learn from mistakes.
Like who?
They look tired but everyone defends the lack of bench? Good
Defense looks as inconsistent as at the beginning but Thibs is a master defensive coach? Okey
Got four stars but two constantly disappear? Fine
I stand by what I said a few days ago: this team is a beautiful mess. They are good enough to win many games even with the problems above and a few more, still, this is a mess. The defense hasn’t improved enough, we struggled against the opposition we were supposedly built for and some of our stars, notably Mikal and OG, have disappearing acts that are very troublesome.
This team is such a wild card and consistency doesn’t seem to be close by.
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With which team?
Knicksfan wrote:At this point this team is such a question mark from game to game that I’m like “whatever”.They look tired but everyone defends the lack of bench? Good
Defense looks as inconsistent as at the beginning but Thibs is a master defensive coach? Okey
Got four stars but two constantly disappear? Fine
I stand by what I said a few days ago: this team is a beautiful mess. They are good enough to win many games even with the problems above and a few more, still, this is a mess. The defense hasn’t improved enough, we struggled against the opposition we were supposedly built for and some of our stars, notably Mikal and OG, have disappearing acts that are very troublesome.
This team is such a wild card and consistency doesn’t seem to be close by.
Why is something like this a surprise to you? The Knicks have 2 guys that start that are fairly below average defenders in Brunson and KAT. Like both are clueless at times. Team defense takes a coordination of 5 guys to really work, and then the C is usually a coordinator of the defense. As well the Knicks best defensive players not starting are Deuce, Mitch, Precious.
What is your expectation for that circumstance and team makeup? Especially with a new team? Did you expect the to be a top 5-10 defense right off the bat or did you think it may take more than 3 months to figure things out while they also put together the offense?
Rookie wrote:Knicks searching for player development-focused coachBut some of the blame also goes to the bench beyond those veterans. League sources have indicated that at the highest reaches of the franchise, there is a bit of panic and finger-pointing going on. The Knicks have three rookies on the roster who have made little impact despite a deep roster of player development coaches. Westchester Knicks coach Desagana Diop recently became the first coach to win back-to-back titles in the G League Winter Showcase. But a league source indicated that the Knicks have been searching for a player development-focused coach to head the program, reaching out for permission to speak with candidates and putting the onus on speeding the learning curve for the young players on the NBA roster. – via Newsday
I guess they miss Jonny Bryant after all
Knicks have 3 rookies who were drafted late first or second round. Kolek is the most nba ready and stuck behind 3 small guards. Dadiet is 19 years old. Hukporti is a late second round pick. I don’t know what is expected. Rookies hardly contribute, let alone late round guys.
Anyway I think people are focused on the wrong thing. The Knicks have 4 veterans - Payne, Achiuwa, Deuce, Shamet that are meant to take minutes, and fill out the rotation. Add to that a 5th veteran in Mitch who hasn't played yet this year and it still weeks away. What people forget is that these guys have all collectively missed a fair amount of time while the starters haven't missed any games. So the starters have played more and these guys have underproduced.
Yes the Knicks have Hukporti/Kolek/Dadiet, but 2 of those guys were 2nd rounders and the first rounder is 19, raw and was brought in with the expectation of not playing that much yet. Is the solution to play these guys or play the 4 vets above, that are now finally getting healthy, more minutes?
VDesai wrote:Im also confused at the report - are they talking about hiring a new G League head coach that is better at player development than Diop (talk about a player that never developed) or are they talking about bringing someone on the bench on the main Knicks team to focus on that?Anyway I think people are focused on the wrong thing. The Knicks have 4 veterans - Payne, Achiuwa, Deuce, Shamet that are meant to take minutes, and fill out the rotation. Add to that a 5th veteran in Mitch who hasn't played yet this year and it still weeks away. What people forget is that these guys have all collectively missed a fair amount of time while the starters haven't missed any games. So the starters have played more and these guys have underproduced.
Yes the Knicks have Hukporti/Kolek/Dadiet, but 2 of those guys were 2nd rounders and the first rounder is 19, raw and was brought in with the expectation of not playing that much yet. Is the solution to play these guys or play the 4 vets above, that are now finally getting healthy, more minutes?
The problem is, only McBride is a player who is worth more than the minimum on the open market. Everyone else came here for cheap because it was the best option. Filling out the roster with quality vets on minimum deals is extremely valuable, but not as expected high level rotation players. We made the big trades and that’s done, so now they need to really get creative to upgrade the bench outside of Deuce and a healthy Mitch.
DLeethal wrote:I don't get the quote. Why is there panic and finger pointing exactly? Because the G-League coach would rather win games then develop rookies or because our rookies are no good?
Right. There are 2 quotes that are put together in sentences next to each other that mean something entirely different than as singular thoughts and probably have nothing to do with one another directly.
Knixkik wrote:VDesai wrote:Im also confused at the report - are they talking about hiring a new G League head coach that is better at player development than Diop (talk about a player that never developed) or are they talking about bringing someone on the bench on the main Knicks team to focus on that?Anyway I think people are focused on the wrong thing. The Knicks have 4 veterans - Payne, Achiuwa, Deuce, Shamet that are meant to take minutes, and fill out the rotation. Add to that a 5th veteran in Mitch who hasn't played yet this year and it still weeks away. What people forget is that these guys have all collectively missed a fair amount of time while the starters haven't missed any games. So the starters have played more and these guys have underproduced.
Yes the Knicks have Hukporti/Kolek/Dadiet, but 2 of those guys were 2nd rounders and the first rounder is 19, raw and was brought in with the expectation of not playing that much yet. Is the solution to play these guys or play the 4 vets above, that are now finally getting healthy, more minutes?
The problem is, only McBride is a player who is worth more than the minimum on the open market. Everyone else came here for cheap because it was the best option. Filling out the roster with quality vets on minimum deals is extremely valuable, but not as expected high level rotation players. We made the big trades and that’s done, so now they need to really get creative to upgrade the bench outside of Deuce and a healthy Mitch.
In a 2nd apron league, where the Knicks have 5 premium starters, there's not gonna be a budget for $10-$15mm guys on peoples benches. Our $15mm bench guy is Mitch who isn't playing. Thats why there's such a push to trade him because the bench budget is tied up in a guy who can't reliably give you minutes and his role wouldn't be that of someone who could "lead" the bench anyway.
But my main point is we are harping on the rotations/mins etc., but we're in a weird situation where everyone on the bench has missed extended time and the starters have not. So The 6-9 man minutes have been inconsistent or non-existent, and man 10-12 were not intended to have a big role this year.
VDesai wrote:Knixkik wrote:VDesai wrote:Im also confused at the report - are they talking about hiring a new G League head coach that is better at player development than Diop (talk about a player that never developed) or are they talking about bringing someone on the bench on the main Knicks team to focus on that?Anyway I think people are focused on the wrong thing. The Knicks have 4 veterans - Payne, Achiuwa, Deuce, Shamet that are meant to take minutes, and fill out the rotation. Add to that a 5th veteran in Mitch who hasn't played yet this year and it still weeks away. What people forget is that these guys have all collectively missed a fair amount of time while the starters haven't missed any games. So the starters have played more and these guys have underproduced.
Yes the Knicks have Hukporti/Kolek/Dadiet, but 2 of those guys were 2nd rounders and the first rounder is 19, raw and was brought in with the expectation of not playing that much yet. Is the solution to play these guys or play the 4 vets above, that are now finally getting healthy, more minutes?
The problem is, only McBride is a player who is worth more than the minimum on the open market. Everyone else came here for cheap because it was the best option. Filling out the roster with quality vets on minimum deals is extremely valuable, but not as expected high level rotation players. We made the big trades and that’s done, so now they need to really get creative to upgrade the bench outside of Deuce and a healthy Mitch.
In a 2nd apron league, where the Knicks have 5 premium starters, there's not gonna be a budget for $10-$15mm guys on peoples benches. Our $15mm bench guy is Mitch who isn't playing. Thats why there's such a push to trade him because the bench budget is tied up in a guy who can't reliably give you minutes and his role wouldn't be that of someone who could "lead" the bench anyway.
But my main point is we are harping on the rotations/mins etc., but we're in a weird situation where everyone on the bench has missed extended time and the starters have not. So The 6-9 man minutes have been inconsistent or non-existent, and man 10-12 were not intended to have a big role this year.
We could build a really good bench by replacing Mitch's salary in a smart way. I believe Kolek and Dadiet and Hukporti all have potential to develop into very solid bench pieces down the road. But for now Deuce - Payne/Shamet - Precious and one legit bench guy using Mitch's salary is a potent bench.
VDesai wrote:Knixkik wrote:VDesai wrote:Im also confused at the report - are they talking about hiring a new G League head coach that is better at player development than Diop (talk about a player that never developed) or are they talking about bringing someone on the bench on the main Knicks team to focus on that?Anyway I think people are focused on the wrong thing. The Knicks have 4 veterans - Payne, Achiuwa, Deuce, Shamet that are meant to take minutes, and fill out the rotation. Add to that a 5th veteran in Mitch who hasn't played yet this year and it still weeks away. What people forget is that these guys have all collectively missed a fair amount of time while the starters haven't missed any games. So the starters have played more and these guys have underproduced.
Yes the Knicks have Hukporti/Kolek/Dadiet, but 2 of those guys were 2nd rounders and the first rounder is 19, raw and was brought in with the expectation of not playing that much yet. Is the solution to play these guys or play the 4 vets above, that are now finally getting healthy, more minutes?
The problem is, only McBride is a player who is worth more than the minimum on the open market. Everyone else came here for cheap because it was the best option. Filling out the roster with quality vets on minimum deals is extremely valuable, but not as expected high level rotation players. We made the big trades and that’s done, so now they need to really get creative to upgrade the bench outside of Deuce and a healthy Mitch.
In a 2nd apron league, where the Knicks have 5 premium starters, there's not gonna be a budget for $10-$15mm guys on peoples benches. Our $15mm bench guy is Mitch who isn't playing. Thats why there's such a push to trade him because the bench budget is tied up in a guy who can't reliably give you minutes and his role wouldn't be that of someone who could "lead" the bench anyway.
But my main point is we are harping on the rotations/mins etc., but we're in a weird situation where everyone on the bench has missed extended time and the starters have not. So The 6-9 man minutes have been inconsistent or non-existent, and man 10-12 were not intended to have a big role this year.
Good point. We have 15mm in unproductive bench time tied up in Mitch.. The comical "Knicks fielding calls about Sims" implies we gonna get something even better in return? Perhaps if a 2nd is added. Shamet played little last night but was that a "must win" situation or was he given extended minutes recently to see measure his contribution level? He is quick and defense is good. Maybe we rested him last night? Or, the Deuce is back loose and there are his minutes??
The Matt Ryan Experience seems to have come and gone.
Im fairly confident there is a disconnect to fans desires and how Thibs views his bench? LOL, "Yah Think"?
Mitch gives us some flexibility for Kat to play the 4 on offense.
Nalod wrote:VDesai wrote:Knixkik wrote:VDesai wrote:Im also confused at the report - are they talking about hiring a new G League head coach that is better at player development than Diop (talk about a player that never developed) or are they talking about bringing someone on the bench on the main Knicks team to focus on that?Anyway I think people are focused on the wrong thing. The Knicks have 4 veterans - Payne, Achiuwa, Deuce, Shamet that are meant to take minutes, and fill out the rotation. Add to that a 5th veteran in Mitch who hasn't played yet this year and it still weeks away. What people forget is that these guys have all collectively missed a fair amount of time while the starters haven't missed any games. So the starters have played more and these guys have underproduced.
Yes the Knicks have Hukporti/Kolek/Dadiet, but 2 of those guys were 2nd rounders and the first rounder is 19, raw and was brought in with the expectation of not playing that much yet. Is the solution to play these guys or play the 4 vets above, that are now finally getting healthy, more minutes?
The problem is, only McBride is a player who is worth more than the minimum on the open market. Everyone else came here for cheap because it was the best option. Filling out the roster with quality vets on minimum deals is extremely valuable, but not as expected high level rotation players. We made the big trades and that’s done, so now they need to really get creative to upgrade the bench outside of Deuce and a healthy Mitch.
In a 2nd apron league, where the Knicks have 5 premium starters, there's not gonna be a budget for $10-$15mm guys on peoples benches. Our $15mm bench guy is Mitch who isn't playing. Thats why there's such a push to trade him because the bench budget is tied up in a guy who can't reliably give you minutes and his role wouldn't be that of someone who could "lead" the bench anyway.
But my main point is we are harping on the rotations/mins etc., but we're in a weird situation where everyone on the bench has missed extended time and the starters have not. So The 6-9 man minutes have been inconsistent or non-existent, and man 10-12 were not intended to have a big role this year.Good point. We have 15mm in unproductive bench time tied up in Mitch.. The comical "Knicks fielding calls about Sims" implies we gonna get something even better in return? Perhaps if a 2nd is added. Shamet played little last night but was that a "must win" situation or was he given extended minutes recently to see measure his contribution level? He is quick and defense is good. Maybe we rested him last night? Or, the Deuce is back loose and there are his minutes??
The Matt Ryan Experience seems to have come and gone.
Im fairly confident there is a disconnect to fans desires and how Thibs views his bench? LOL, "Yah Think"?
Mitch gives us some flexibility for Kat to play the 4 on offense.
Could also be as simple as he dislocated his shoulder 2 months ago and is suddenly wearing K-tape on his shoulder and maybe just needs the night off to rest up AND Deuce was back and Knicks had good enough margin.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:VDesai wrote:Knixkik wrote:VDesai wrote:Im also confused at the report - are they talking about hiring a new G League head coach that is better at player development than Diop (talk about a player that never developed) or are they talking about bringing someone on the bench on the main Knicks team to focus on that?Anyway I think people are focused on the wrong thing. The Knicks have 4 veterans - Payne, Achiuwa, Deuce, Shamet that are meant to take minutes, and fill out the rotation. Add to that a 5th veteran in Mitch who hasn't played yet this year and it still weeks away. What people forget is that these guys have all collectively missed a fair amount of time while the starters haven't missed any games. So the starters have played more and these guys have underproduced.
Yes the Knicks have Hukporti/Kolek/Dadiet, but 2 of those guys were 2nd rounders and the first rounder is 19, raw and was brought in with the expectation of not playing that much yet. Is the solution to play these guys or play the 4 vets above, that are now finally getting healthy, more minutes?
The problem is, only McBride is a player who is worth more than the minimum on the open market. Everyone else came here for cheap because it was the best option. Filling out the roster with quality vets on minimum deals is extremely valuable, but not as expected high level rotation players. We made the big trades and that’s done, so now they need to really get creative to upgrade the bench outside of Deuce and a healthy Mitch.
In a 2nd apron league, where the Knicks have 5 premium starters, there's not gonna be a budget for $10-$15mm guys on peoples benches. Our $15mm bench guy is Mitch who isn't playing. Thats why there's such a push to trade him because the bench budget is tied up in a guy who can't reliably give you minutes and his role wouldn't be that of someone who could "lead" the bench anyway.
But my main point is we are harping on the rotations/mins etc., but we're in a weird situation where everyone on the bench has missed extended time and the starters have not. So The 6-9 man minutes have been inconsistent or non-existent, and man 10-12 were not intended to have a big role this year.Good point. We have 15mm in unproductive bench time tied up in Mitch.. The comical "Knicks fielding calls about Sims" implies we gonna get something even better in return? Perhaps if a 2nd is added. Shamet played little last night but was that a "must win" situation or was he given extended minutes recently to see measure his contribution level? He is quick and defense is good. Maybe we rested him last night? Or, the Deuce is back loose and there are his minutes??
The Matt Ryan Experience seems to have come and gone.
Im fairly confident there is a disconnect to fans desires and how Thibs views his bench? LOL, "Yah Think"?
Mitch gives us some flexibility for Kat to play the 4 on offense.Could also be as simple as he dislocated his shoulder 2 months ago and is suddenly wearing K-tape on his shoulder and maybe just needs the night off to rest up AND Deuce was back and Knicks had good enough margin.
Yes, those would be reasons. Knicks have to believe that shoulder would hold up. He is here to perform and on a min contract.