We will see how the playoffs go, but feels like Deuce brings some of the things missing from the lineup. He offers the shooting gravity and point of attack defense, which moves Bridges back to guarding wings. Hart is awesome and we would miss the rebounding, but his ability to ignite offense is more valuable off the bench when the game loosens up a bit. Earlier in the game when teams try to get rhythm, his skillset seems a bit muted. When the game needs a change of pace, that’s when his value is really seen. He would still see most of his minutes because he would finish most games. But the starts to games requires more shooting and spacing, and McBride offers that. Plus at age 24, he is the one player in our current rotation that may have some untapped potential. With our limited flexibility, we need to see if there’s more there. Just a thought. I love him with the starters and the numbers reflect that. I feel like there was a similar conversation around Quickley previously, but McBride is a better defender and better catch and shoot guy than IQ, who was best with the ball in his hands. We will reassess in the offseason, and maybe there’s an unexpected addition. But if not, this is something I’d like to see.
These guys should just do the 3's league
Knixkik wrote:We will see how the playoffs go, but feels like Deuce brings some of the things missing from the lineup. He offers the shooting gravity and point of attack defense, which moves Bridges back to guarding wings. Hart is awesome and we would miss the rebounding, but his ability to ignite offense is more valuable off the bench when the game loosens up a bit. Earlier in the game when teams try to get rhythm, his skillset seems a bit muted. When the game needs a change of pace, that’s when his value is really seen. He would still see most of his minutes because he would finish most games. But the starts to games requires more shooting and spacing, and McBride offers that. Plus at age 24, he is the one player in our current rotation that may have some untapped potential. With our limited flexibility, we need to see if there’s more there. Just a thought. I love him with the starters and the numbers reflect that. I feel like there was a similar conversation around Quickley previously, but McBride is a better defender and better catch and shoot guy than IQ, who was best with the ball in his hands. We will reassess in the offseason, and maybe there’s an unexpected addition. But if not, this is something I’d like to see.
I like this thinking. Wouldn't even mind an adjustment lineup of Mitch, KAT, OG, Mikal/Deuce, Brunson as appropriate.
I think some dominoes need to fall before Deuce gets elevated. May need Payne and then Kolek to be more consistent, but perhaps that is also alleviated by Hart off bench.
Deuce just needs to get his ball handling a bit better too. Maybe not really a determinant to this lineup but it would help.
I do think Long term Josh is relegated to the bench where he is super valuable.
Shame Grimes did not pan out and it's at least good to see what knicks saw in his potential starting to blossom.
Curious what his salary demands will be and where/how much he signs for.
Fact is Grimes was given an opportunity and consistency was the issue.
We move forward thru mistakes like all teams do. Some better than others.
In my mind Josh/Deuce could be traded? Not sure we need a consolidated type deal where we get a very good shooting guard to pair with JB. one has to hope our yoot steps up a bit. Recent signings of Beauchamp and Watson could be next gen potential for a role. Shamet is coming along given us good minutes. not great, but we don't need great all the time.
Watching Herro last night thinking a player like that on offense instead of Josh perhaps is a good weapon.
I like Deuce a lot, and at his salary still for two more years after this he is a great value. It also makes him very attracted via trade.
Conceptually, peak Shamet at 6-5 could be a good starter. If hitting his shot, he lets it fly. if not, move in Josh or Deuce.
But concepts are not always achievable.
martin wrote:
Wouldn't even mind an adjustment lineup of Mitch, KAT, OG, Mikal/Deuce, Brunson as appropriate.
martin wrote:
Needs DDV back
Agree 100% on both these things.
Great post!! We have 4 potential All NBA defensive players on this team. OG, Bridges, Deuce and Mitch (when he's in shape and healthy). Only 2 of them are playing over 25 minutes per....we definitely need to figure out a way to get Deuce and Mitch more playing time when JB is back.
Deuce's point of attack defense has been elite, paired with OG who is an elite off ball/help disruptor and Bridges off ball has taken this defense to the next level. Over the last 10 games, we have the 2nd best defense in the league, right behind Detroit our potential 1st round opponent.
I agree that Hart is the best candidate to get moved to the 2nd unit as a change of pace player....I like the idea of Deuce, OG and Bridges sharing the court together. We wont have rim protection to start the game but at least we will have elite point of attack defense.
Uptown wrote:Great post!! We have 4 potential All NBA defensive players on this team. OG, Bridges, Deuce and Mitch (when he's in shape and healthy). Only 2 of them are playing over 25 minutes per....we definitely need to figure out a way to get Deuce and Mitch more playing time when JB is back.
Deuce's point of attack defense has been elite, paired with OG who is an elite off ball/help disruptor and Bridges off ball has taken this defense to the next level. Over the last 10 games, we have the 2nd best defense in the league, right behind Detroit our potential 1st round opponent. I agree that Hart is the best candidate to get moved to the 2nd unit as a change of pace player....I like the idea of Deuce, OG and Bridges sharing the court together. We wont have rim protection to start the game but at least we will have elite point of attack defense.
let me just stop you there.... it's really simple. It's NOT a Thibs thing either. They simply need to be healthy. When McBride is a 100% he's getting huge minutes in the 28-30mpg range. He's not been. He's a very sporadic offense player. His handle at best is mistake free but he's not really breaking anyone down off the dribble. He's got a little bag... pull ups, mid range, little shake and bake but in general he's not hard to defend. He's had some terrible shooting stretches and when the knee was acting up his defense was OK at best.
Mitch is Mitch. He's simply elite in what he does and can do. We are a really different team with a healthy Mitch playing his regular 25-28mpg.
There's no way McBride is knocking Josh out of his starting spot. Only Mitch is doing that, and I dont see Thibs doing that just because of the minutes thing. He will stagger them, bring Mitch off the bench and use him together with KAT down the stretch for size.
I love McBride but I hear that he should start over Hart on Reddit every day and its not happening for like 40 good basketball reasons. Also his play is over hyped. He's really good when he's hitting shots. He had 2 months of shooting like 27% from 3 and some very average defense. When he backs up Brunson, Hart usually runs the offense
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:We will see how the playoffs go, but feels like Deuce brings some of the things missing from the lineup. He offers the shooting gravity and point of attack defense, which moves Bridges back to guarding wings. Hart is awesome and we would miss the rebounding, but his ability to ignite offense is more valuable off the bench when the game loosens up a bit. Earlier in the game when teams try to get rhythm, his skillset seems a bit muted. When the game needs a change of pace, that’s when his value is really seen. He would still see most of his minutes because he would finish most games. But the starts to games requires more shooting and spacing, and McBride offers that. Plus at age 24, he is the one player in our current rotation that may have some untapped potential. With our limited flexibility, we need to see if there’s more there. Just a thought. I love him with the starters and the numbers reflect that. I feel like there was a similar conversation around Quickley previously, but McBride is a better defender and better catch and shoot guy than IQ, who was best with the ball in his hands. We will reassess in the offseason, and maybe there’s an unexpected addition. But if not, this is something I’d like to see.
I like this thinking. Wouldn't even mind an adjustment lineup of Mitch, KAT, OG, Mikal/Deuce, Brunson as appropriate.
I think some dominoes need to fall before Deuce gets elevated. May need Payne and then Kolek to be more consistent, but perhaps that is also alleviated by Hart off bench.
Deuce just needs to get his ball handling a bit better too. Maybe not really a determinant to this lineup but it would help.
Let’s just say the Knicks go with the lineup of KAT, OG, Bridges, Deuce and Brunson. They bring Hart off the bench, along with Mitch, a resigned Payne, and a shooter with the taypayer MLE like Kennard. Suddenly the bench rotation looks really strong as opposed to the weakness it is now. Moving Deuce to the lineup is a better fit, and Hart makes the bench stronger than Deuce does in my opinion.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Great post!! We have 4 potential All NBA defensive players on this team. OG, Bridges, Deuce and Mitch (when he's in shape and healthy). Only 2 of them are playing over 25 minutes per....we definitely need to figure out a way to get Deuce and Mitch more playing time when JB is back.
Deuce's point of attack defense has been elite, paired with OG who is an elite off ball/help disruptor and Bridges off ball has taken this defense to the next level. Over the last 10 games, we have the 2nd best defense in the league, right behind Detroit our potential 1st round opponent. I agree that Hart is the best candidate to get moved to the 2nd unit as a change of pace player....I like the idea of Deuce, OG and Bridges sharing the court together. We wont have rim protection to start the game but at least we will have elite point of attack defense.
let me just stop you there.... it's really simple. It's NOT a Thibs thing either. They simply need to be healthy. When McBride is a 100% he's getting huge minutes in the 28-30mpg range. He's not been. He's a very sporadic offense player. His handle at best is mistake free but he's not really breaking anyone down off the dribble. He's got a little bag... pull ups, mid range, little shake and bake but in general he's not hard to defend. He's had some terrible shooting stretches and when the knee was acting up his defense was OK at best.Mitch is Mitch. He's simply elite in what he does and can do. We are a really different team with a healthy Mitch playing his regular 25-28mpg.
There's no way McBride is knocking Josh out of his starting spot. Only Mitch is doing that, and I dont see Thibs doing that just because of the minutes thing. He will stagger them, bring Mitch off the bench and use him together with KAT down the stretch for size.
I love McBride but I hear that he should start over Hart on Reddit every day and its not happening for like 40 good basketball reasons. Also his play is over hyped. He's really good when he's hitting shots. He had 2 months of shooting like 27% from 3 and some very average defense. When he backs up Brunson, Hart usually runs the offense
Suggesting that Mitch and Deuce need more minutes when JB is ready to go, wasn't an idictment on Thibs...The hope is when the Captain gets back, Thibs will have a healthy roster at his disposal. Most of our top net positve lineups, defensively and offensivey include Deuce....
I agree and diagree on your Deuce take. Agreed that he can be inconsistent on the offensive end...his best trait is as a spot up 3 point shooter and floor spacer...I also agree that Thibs is not inserting Deuce into the starting line up in place of Hart. I diagagree that he is overhyped, at least not by me. A healthy Duece is one of the best point of attack defenders in the league. When Deuce is guarding the ball at top, he ampliphies the other defenders around him. He allows OG to play to his strenghts which is as the ultimate help defender. He is also taking the pressure off Bridges and allowing him to play the passing lanes which he does well and it seems to have energized him on the offensive end as well. There were several plays on the defensive end where Deuce and Bridges swistched, seemlesly and completely shut the water off on the Heats offensive sets. It was beautiful to watch....
Hart is a throw back player and is one of my favorite Knicks...but, sometimes, Harts presence makes us easy to game plan for. Teams are consistently guarding Hart with their center which is clogging the lane as they dare him to shoot the 3. A confident Hart that shoots the 3 with confidence, inserts himself into the game by cutting, constant motion and or setting picks makes us dangerous. He just needs to be more consistent and confident in the half court....
The Knicks getting McBride a 3 year $13 million extension at the end of ‘23 has to be one of the shrewdest smartest moves I have ever seen in any pro sport. This guy could easily get a way bigger contract than Hartenstein on the open market next offseason instead we have contractual control through 2027.
Bravo.
Philc1 wrote:The Knicks getting McBride a 3 year $13 million extension at the end of ‘23 has to be one of the shrewdest smartest moves I have ever seen in any pro sport. This guy could easily get a way bigger contract than Hartenstein on the open market next offseason instead we have contractual control through 2027.Bravo.
Thats because your limited.
He got that deal or perhaps he got traded and buried on another team. He got that deal knowing if he takes it IQ gets traded and he gets the role off the bench. He signed it as that trade went down.
That buys him 3 years to make his mark and more important than money is an opportunity.
Still, he is not a 30mil a year player. yet.
Shrewd because he has stepped up. When he signed that deal this was not known.
Philc1 wrote:The Knicks getting McBride a 3 year $13 million extension at the end of ‘23 has to be one of the shrewdest smartest moves I have ever seen in any pro sport. This guy could easily get a way bigger contract than Hartenstein on the open market next offseason instead we have contractual control through 2027.Bravo.
It almost ensures he won’t be traded either, because the Knicks can’t do better at that salary slot. Can no longer consolidate players into a higher end player like Randle and Donte for KAT. Deuce being a high level rotation player at his salary is worth its weight in gold.
Knixkik wrote:Philc1 wrote:The Knicks getting McBride a 3 year $13 million extension at the end of ‘23 has to be one of the shrewdest smartest moves I have ever seen in any pro sport. This guy could easily get a way bigger contract than Hartenstein on the open market next offseason instead we have contractual control through 2027.Bravo.
It almost ensures he won’t be traded either, because the Knicks can’t do better at that salary slot. Can no longer consolidate players into a higher end player like Randle and Donte for KAT. Deuce being a high level rotation player at his salary is worth its weight in gold.
this is the answer... McBride is really good but the holes in his game translate to a bench player, and there just isnt anything wrong with that. McBride is a huge win for the Knicks drafting and development.
fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:Philc1 wrote:The Knicks getting McBride a 3 year $13 million extension at the end of ‘23 has to be one of the shrewdest smartest moves I have ever seen in any pro sport. This guy could easily get a way bigger contract than Hartenstein on the open market next offseason instead we have contractual control through 2027.Bravo.
It almost ensures he won’t be traded either, because the Knicks can’t do better at that salary slot. Can no longer consolidate players into a higher end player like Randle and Donte for KAT. Deuce being a high level rotation player at his salary is worth its weight in gold.
this is the answer... McBride is really good but the holes in his game translate to a bench player, and there just isnt anything wrong with that. McBride is a huge win for the Knicks drafting and development.
Agreed. A win no matter what.
As long as JB is on the team, Deuce will be an off guard. I believe he’s always ran a 2 guards system where he can focus on scoring and defense. PG takes away from his game that impacts winning.
