Knicks · What you think of this NY-Phoenix-Houston off season trade idea? KAT, Durant, Amen key pieces moving (page 2)
I understand not all around here are fond of KD. he fails in a new city then its another stain they can celebrate that also!
Nalod wrote:Rockets make sense for KD. OKC has the assets also. I'd like to see a reunion in OKC. Make for a nice story if they successful.I understand not all around here are fond of KD. he fails in a new city then its another stain they can celebrate that also!
I dont watch OKC so I don't know how much they rely upon iHart to make things click. My assumption is that if PHO and OKC did a deal, iHart would have to be part of the package to match salaries if it's just those 2 teams? If it's not iHart, than Dort/Carsuo contracts most likey need to be included?
Chet Durant Jalen Dort SGA
Not bad
Is Chet Giannis Jalen Dort SGA better? Seems like it to me if OKC had a choice.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Rockets make sense for KD. OKC has the assets also. I'd like to see a reunion in OKC. Make for a nice story if they successful.I understand not all around here are fond of KD. he fails in a new city then its another stain they can celebrate that also!
I dont watch OKC so I don't know how much they rely upon iHart to make things click. My assumption is that if PHO and OKC did a deal, iHart would have to be part of the package to match salaries if it's just those 2 teams? If it's not iHart, than Dort/Carsuo contracts most likey need to be included?
Chet Durant Jalen Dort SGA
Not bad
Is Chet Giannis Jalen Dort SGA better? Seems like it to me if OKC had a choice.
I don't see OKC making this kind of deal. Kind of outside their modus operandi. They can run this exact team back next year. If I am running OKC, I just run it back and worry about trades in 26/27. If there is a minor upgrade (like the Caruso trade), do that.
If I am Houston, I probably get nervous if GS finishes them off. They really could go either way. I think they pull the trigger on a starphuch.
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Rockets make sense for KD. OKC has the assets also. I'd like to see a reunion in OKC. Make for a nice story if they successful.I understand not all around here are fond of KD. he fails in a new city then its another stain they can celebrate that also!
I dont watch OKC so I don't know how much they rely upon iHart to make things click. My assumption is that if PHO and OKC did a deal, iHart would have to be part of the package to match salaries if it's just those 2 teams? If it's not iHart, than Dort/Carsuo contracts most likey need to be included?
Chet Durant Jalen Dort SGA
Not bad
Is Chet Giannis Jalen Dort SGA better? Seems like it to me if OKC had a choice.
I don't see OKC making this kind of deal. Kind of outside their modus operandi. They can run this exact team back next year. If I am running OKC, I just run it back and worry about trades in 26/27. If there is a minor upgrade (like the Caruso trade), do that.
If I am Houston, I probably get nervous if GS finishes them off. They really could go either way. I think they pull the trigger on a starphuch.
That makes sense, but sometimes certain players only come on the market once and you have no choice.
OKC also does have a playing time problem, so far it’s been offset this season because Chet has missed to much time and same with Caruso. Guys like Ousmane Dieng can’t even get playing time (and maybe that’s more contribution than available minutes) AND they got 2 incoming draft picks this year which they can certainly trade away. Oh, Nikola Topić too with the ACL.
Their cap numbers gonna explode soon and they’ll adjust to that more than anything. They got 1 more year before needing to do something dramatic. Good problems to have.
nycericanguy wrote:no way would HOU trade Amen for KD
No way Luka gets traded for AD and one first right ? Anything is possible. 😂
martin wrote:More of a thought process than anything else.Some assumptions obviously have to happen: NY willing to move KAT, Houston wants Durant, PHO wants to keep competitive while shaking things up.
Give or take, these salaries work in the off season.
NY gets: Amen, FVV, Eason, pick?
Houston: Durant, Deuce.
PHO: KATPhoenix pairs Nick Richards with KAT up front. They move a dominant ball handler for a pure spacer and rebounder, this optimistically opens up ball handling for Beal to jump start his play. KAT also is a different kind of spacer (and post player) than Durant but I'm not sure on that but he is a much better rebounder. Even if Phoenix eventually moves on from Beal, they get another year of at least trying with a new coach without having to trade or stretch his contract. More on ball touches for Beal and Booker, go from 37yo Durant to 30yo KAT. Booker and KAT are close friends. In 2 years you are building around Booker and KAT.
Houston gets their marquee guy in Durant, opens up reps for Reed who is doing nothing. Opens up things for Cam Whitmore and Jabari Smith too.
NY gets a ball handler in Amen who is a young dynamic player who is the next generation after Brunson, OG, Hart, Mikal. Amen is the key for NY and a Thibs dude. I'd have him bring the ball up the court as much as possible and as fast as possible as the PG and allow more spacing duties for Brunson while keeping Jalen's closing duties. Brunson and FVV take the half court PG duties (and Kolek simmers like Deuce for another year with that 3pt shot). FVV off the bench with Josh, Teri, Huk, and Shamet. FVV on a 1 year deal and this would help out the long term salary cap. NY would get back to its defensive, grit roots while keeping some of those spacer players in Mikal, OG, Jalen. Amen is your PoA defender and it moves Mikal and OG to off ball terror duties with Mitch sitting behind them. Offensive spacing would be an issue but Thibs would get his defensive horndog going on again.
I don't think Houston moves off Amen for anyone in that deal. 1) Untapped potential 2) low cost.
FVF is Houston's leader (PG) so tough not to replace him
PHX and NY would probably do those deals.
nycericanguy wrote:no way would HOU trade Amen for KD
This was my thought - doubt they'd trade him for Kat either (especially when you consider cost differential on cap)
martin wrote:I'd view him as a bigger version of SGA who has more of a defensive background than an offensive one.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1912960378675613732
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I don't see that compare myself.
Amen maybe reminds me of a Pippen or maybe even a SF (Rodman) type - nowhere near the offensive bag that Shae has and nowhere close in terms of shooting/range.
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I have my eyes on KD - especially if it meant less ISO Brunson.
I'd consider a Kat/KD trade myself BUT only where we re-coop some draft capital and maybe a young defender from Phoenix.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Rockets make sense for KD. OKC has the assets also. I'd like to see a reunion in OKC. Make for a nice story if they successful.I understand not all around here are fond of KD. he fails in a new city then its another stain they can celebrate that also!
I dont watch OKC so I don't know how much they rely upon iHart to make things click. My assumption is that if PHO and OKC did a deal, iHart would have to be part of the package to match salaries if it's just those 2 teams? If it's not iHart, than Dort/Carsuo contracts most likey need to be included?
Chet Durant Jalen Dort SGA
Not bad
Is Chet Giannis Jalen Dort SGA better? Seems like it to me if OKC had a choice.
I may be wrong BUT I don't think OKC is going to mess with what they have by adding a sometimes difficult to manage personality in KD - especially with such a young team. Maybe they would but with their assets they can wait for the perfect fit (something KD at 36 may not be).
Think KD goes to a vet laden team but what the hell do I know.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:More of a thought process than anything else.Some assumptions obviously have to happen: NY willing to move KAT, Houston wants Durant, PHO wants to keep competitive while shaking things up.
Give or take, these salaries work in the off season.
NY gets: Amen, FVV, Eason, pick?
Houston: Durant, Deuce.
PHO: KATPhoenix pairs Nick Richards with KAT up front. They move a dominant ball handler for a pure spacer and rebounder, this optimistically opens up ball handling for Beal to jump start his play. KAT also is a different kind of spacer (and post player) than Durant but I'm not sure on that but he is a much better rebounder. Even if Phoenix eventually moves on from Beal, they get another year of at least trying with a new coach without having to trade or stretch his contract. More on ball touches for Beal and Booker, go from 37yo Durant to 30yo KAT. Booker and KAT are close friends. In 2 years you are building around Booker and KAT.
Houston gets their marquee guy in Durant, opens up reps for Reed who is doing nothing. Opens up things for Cam Whitmore and Jabari Smith too.
NY gets a ball handler in Amen who is a young dynamic player who is the next generation after Brunson, OG, Hart, Mikal. Amen is the key for NY and a Thibs dude. I'd have him bring the ball up the court as much as possible and as fast as possible as the PG and allow more spacing duties for Brunson while keeping Jalen's closing duties. Brunson and FVV take the half court PG duties (and Kolek simmers like Deuce for another year with that 3pt shot). FVV off the bench with Josh, Teri, Huk, and Shamet. FVV on a 1 year deal and this would help out the long term salary cap. NY would get back to its defensive, grit roots while keeping some of those spacer players in Mikal, OG, Jalen. Amen is your PoA defender and it moves Mikal and OG to off ball terror duties with Mitch sitting behind them. Offensive spacing would be an issue but Thibs would get his defensive horndog going on again.
I don't think Houston moves off Amen for anyone in that deal. 1) Untapped potential 2) low cost.
FVF is Houston's leader (PG) so tough not to replace him
PHX and NY would probably do those deals.
I think we will be surprised with how little KD goes for. Houston wouldn’t deal Amen. He’s pretty untouchable. And they may not even be willing to part with Eason for him, assuming he’s part of a larger package.
Knixkik wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:More of a thought process than anything else.Some assumptions obviously have to happen: NY willing to move KAT, Houston wants Durant, PHO wants to keep competitive while shaking things up.
Give or take, these salaries work in the off season.
NY gets: Amen, FVV, Eason, pick?
Houston: Durant, Deuce.
PHO: KATPhoenix pairs Nick Richards with KAT up front. They move a dominant ball handler for a pure spacer and rebounder, this optimistically opens up ball handling for Beal to jump start his play. KAT also is a different kind of spacer (and post player) than Durant but I'm not sure on that but he is a much better rebounder. Even if Phoenix eventually moves on from Beal, they get another year of at least trying with a new coach without having to trade or stretch his contract. More on ball touches for Beal and Booker, go from 37yo Durant to 30yo KAT. Booker and KAT are close friends. In 2 years you are building around Booker and KAT.
Houston gets their marquee guy in Durant, opens up reps for Reed who is doing nothing. Opens up things for Cam Whitmore and Jabari Smith too.
NY gets a ball handler in Amen who is a young dynamic player who is the next generation after Brunson, OG, Hart, Mikal. Amen is the key for NY and a Thibs dude. I'd have him bring the ball up the court as much as possible and as fast as possible as the PG and allow more spacing duties for Brunson while keeping Jalen's closing duties. Brunson and FVV take the half court PG duties (and Kolek simmers like Deuce for another year with that 3pt shot). FVV off the bench with Josh, Teri, Huk, and Shamet. FVV on a 1 year deal and this would help out the long term salary cap. NY would get back to its defensive, grit roots while keeping some of those spacer players in Mikal, OG, Jalen. Amen is your PoA defender and it moves Mikal and OG to off ball terror duties with Mitch sitting behind them. Offensive spacing would be an issue but Thibs would get his defensive horndog going on again.
I don't think Houston moves off Amen for anyone in that deal. 1) Untapped potential 2) low cost.
FVF is Houston's leader (PG) so tough not to replace him
PHX and NY would probably do those deals.I think we will be surprised with how little KD goes for. Houston wouldn’t deal Amen. He’s pretty untouchable. And they may not even be willing to part with Eason for him, assuming he’s part of a larger package.
Let me add this perspective: Currently built, does Houston have enough to get to semis or finals in the western conference? And how soon? Those are the question their FO will ask themselves.
They also know they have a certain window to use FVV $44M contract. There will also be a certain window where guys they want to target with that contract are available.
I don't know what Houston's ceiling is over the next 2-3 years without a (major) move. They do seem like they are missing a leader/offensive alpha type guy. A closer. Elite closers can be built internally - Brunson is the Knicks example - or traded for. Maybe that guy is Jalen Green. Maybe it's Amen in a couple of years or Jabari Smith or Sengun. I dont know Houston well enough to know.
Do they have that guy and/or do they want to acquire one?
I think there is an underlying assumption when they signed FVV and Dillion Brooks to their contracts: They would eventually be traded BECAUSE of the size of their contracts, amongst other things.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Ixnay I guessJavascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1913040144254312831?s=61&t=X2NvaBkjFz8kZPoGlCbCzA
Click here to view the TweetI have my eyes on KD - especially if it meant less ISO Brunson.
I'd consider a Kat/KD trade myself BUT only where we re-coop some draft capital and maybe a young defender from Phoenix.
Doubt it would happen but I would consider a Bridges for Durant trade (pending what we would have to add to make the deal happen). I would not give them OG. I would give them KAT in a 3 team deal if we got IHart back 
Knixkik wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:More of a thought process than anything else.Some assumptions obviously have to happen: NY willing to move KAT, Houston wants Durant, PHO wants to keep competitive while shaking things up.
Give or take, these salaries work in the off season.
NY gets: Amen, FVV, Eason, pick?
Houston: Durant, Deuce.
PHO: KATPhoenix pairs Nick Richards with KAT up front. They move a dominant ball handler for a pure spacer and rebounder, this optimistically opens up ball handling for Beal to jump start his play. KAT also is a different kind of spacer (and post player) than Durant but I'm not sure on that but he is a much better rebounder. Even if Phoenix eventually moves on from Beal, they get another year of at least trying with a new coach without having to trade or stretch his contract. More on ball touches for Beal and Booker, go from 37yo Durant to 30yo KAT. Booker and KAT are close friends. In 2 years you are building around Booker and KAT.
Houston gets their marquee guy in Durant, opens up reps for Reed who is doing nothing. Opens up things for Cam Whitmore and Jabari Smith too.
NY gets a ball handler in Amen who is a young dynamic player who is the next generation after Brunson, OG, Hart, Mikal. Amen is the key for NY and a Thibs dude. I'd have him bring the ball up the court as much as possible and as fast as possible as the PG and allow more spacing duties for Brunson while keeping Jalen's closing duties. Brunson and FVV take the half court PG duties (and Kolek simmers like Deuce for another year with that 3pt shot). FVV off the bench with Josh, Teri, Huk, and Shamet. FVV on a 1 year deal and this would help out the long term salary cap. NY would get back to its defensive, grit roots while keeping some of those spacer players in Mikal, OG, Jalen. Amen is your PoA defender and it moves Mikal and OG to off ball terror duties with Mitch sitting behind them. Offensive spacing would be an issue but Thibs would get his defensive horndog going on again.
I don't think Houston moves off Amen for anyone in that deal. 1) Untapped potential 2) low cost.
FVF is Houston's leader (PG) so tough not to replace him
PHX and NY would probably do those deals.I think we will be surprised with how little KD goes for. Houston wouldn’t deal Amen. He’s pretty untouchable. And they may not even be willing to part with Eason for him, assuming he’s part of a larger package.
Probably right but they are going to have to match salary on Kids big deal.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:More of a thought process than anything else.Some assumptions obviously have to happen: NY willing to move KAT, Houston wants Durant, PHO wants to keep competitive while shaking things up.
Give or take, these salaries work in the off season.
NY gets: Amen, FVV, Eason, pick?
Houston: Durant, Deuce.
PHO: KATPhoenix pairs Nick Richards with KAT up front. They move a dominant ball handler for a pure spacer and rebounder, this optimistically opens up ball handling for Beal to jump start his play. KAT also is a different kind of spacer (and post player) than Durant but I'm not sure on that but he is a much better rebounder. Even if Phoenix eventually moves on from Beal, they get another year of at least trying with a new coach without having to trade or stretch his contract. More on ball touches for Beal and Booker, go from 37yo Durant to 30yo KAT. Booker and KAT are close friends. In 2 years you are building around Booker and KAT.
Houston gets their marquee guy in Durant, opens up reps for Reed who is doing nothing. Opens up things for Cam Whitmore and Jabari Smith too.
NY gets a ball handler in Amen who is a young dynamic player who is the next generation after Brunson, OG, Hart, Mikal. Amen is the key for NY and a Thibs dude. I'd have him bring the ball up the court as much as possible and as fast as possible as the PG and allow more spacing duties for Brunson while keeping Jalen's closing duties. Brunson and FVV take the half court PG duties (and Kolek simmers like Deuce for another year with that 3pt shot). FVV off the bench with Josh, Teri, Huk, and Shamet. FVV on a 1 year deal and this would help out the long term salary cap. NY would get back to its defensive, grit roots while keeping some of those spacer players in Mikal, OG, Jalen. Amen is your PoA defender and it moves Mikal and OG to off ball terror duties with Mitch sitting behind them. Offensive spacing would be an issue but Thibs would get his defensive horndog going on again.
I don't think Houston moves off Amen for anyone in that deal. 1) Untapped potential 2) low cost.
FVF is Houston's leader (PG) so tough not to replace him
PHX and NY would probably do those deals.I think we will be surprised with how little KD goes for. Houston wouldn’t deal Amen. He’s pretty untouchable. And they may not even be willing to part with Eason for him, assuming he’s part of a larger package.
Let me add this perspective: Currently built, does Houston have enough to get to semis or finals in the western conference? And how soon? Those are the question their FO will ask themselves.
They also know they have a certain window to use FVV $44M contract. There will also be a certain window where guys they want to target with that contract are available.
I don't know what Houston's ceiling is over the next 2-3 years without a (major) move. They do seem like they are missing a leader/offensive alpha type guy. A closer. Elite closers can be built internally - Brunson is the Knicks example - or traded for. Maybe that guy is Jalen Green. Maybe it's Amen in a couple of years or Jabari Smith or Sengun. I dont know Houston well enough to know.
Do they have that guy and/or do they want to acquire one?
I think there is an underlying assumption when they signed FVV and Dillion Brooks to their contracts: They would eventually be traded BECAUSE of the size of their contracts, amongst other things.
I agree Houston will get anxious but Amen doesn’t look like a kid you trade —— more likely they try to get a KD with other non Amen assets —- thinking Green, Eason, Whitmore or J Smith types. Smith might make most sense because pretty much same position as KD.
I wouldn’t do that either if Houston because Smith defends.
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Good coaching staff and a group of role players. While their record was not great in the regular season this is the kind of team that gets dangerous isn short spurts especially vs. a team like Rockets who has some nice vets but their young talent is the driving force. Detroit did something similar but Cade is the real deal who came in to his own.
not sure I'd blow that rocket team up so fast but with Giannis perhaps on the market I'd got that route then Durant if the cost is reasonable. Its not going to be cheap, but one can't be stupid in pursuit.
GSW if they do advance has 3 HOF on that roster. That should not be lost on most.
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