Knicks · What you think of this NY-Phoenix-Houston off season trade idea? KAT, Durant, Amen key pieces moving (page 1)

More of a thought process than anything else.

Some assumptions obviously have to happen: NY willing to move KAT, Houston wants Durant, PHO wants to keep competitive while shaking things up.

Give or take, these salaries work in the off season.

NY gets: Amen, FVV, Eason, pick?
Houston: Durant, Deuce.
PHO: KAT

Phoenix pairs Nick Richards with KAT up front. They move a dominant ball handler for a pure spacer and rebounder, this optimistically opens up ball handling for Beal to jump start his play. KAT also is a different kind of spacer (and post player) than Durant but I'm not sure on that but he is a much better rebounder. Even if Phoenix eventually moves on from Beal, they get another year of at least trying with a new coach without having to trade or stretch his contract. More on ball touches for Beal and Booker, go from 37yo Durant to 30yo KAT. Booker and KAT are close friends. In 2 years you are building around Booker and KAT.

Houston gets their marquee guy in Durant, opens up reps for Reed who is doing nothing. Opens up things for Cam Whitmore and Jabari Smith too.

NY gets a ball handler in Amen who is a young dynamic player who is the next generation after Brunson, OG, Hart, Mikal. Amen is the key for NY and a Thibs dude. I'd have him bring the ball up the court as much as possible and as fast as possible as the PG and allow more spacing duties for Brunson while keeping Jalen's closing duties. Brunson and FVV take the half court PG duties (and Kolek simmers like Deuce for another year with that 3pt shot). FVV off the bench with Josh, Teri, Huk, and Shamet. FVV on a 1 year deal and this would help out the long term salary cap. NY would get back to its defensive, grit roots while keeping some of those spacer players in Mikal, OG, Jalen. Amen is your PoA defender and it moves Mikal and OG to off ball terror duties with Mitch sitting behind them. Offensive spacing would be an issue but Thibs would get his defensive horndog going on again.

I pass.

We're a win now team, which does feel weird, no doubt. We've got Brunson in his prime and are on his timeline. Maybe Amen and pick(s) wind up better down the road, but in the short term, it makes us worse. I don't like the shift in roster construction or how it shrinks our window. Big moves (like the KAT trade) typically take a year before teams fully adjust.

One step further, trading KAT without getting a center in return puts way too much reliance on Mitch's health. It's already hard enough to make trades being over the apron - maybe someone with a better handle on the cap/apron can correct me - but wouldn't any follow up trades necessary for a rebalance basically require blowing up the current core?

no way would HOU trade Amen for KD

MaTT4281 wrote:I pass.

We're a win now team, which does feel weird, no doubt. We've got Brunson in his prime and are on his timeline. Maybe Amen and pick(s) wind up better down the road, but in the short term, it makes us worse. I don't like the shift in roster construction or how it shrinks our window. Big moves (like the KAT trade) typically take a year before teams fully adjust.

One step further, trading KAT without getting a center in return puts way too much reliance on Mitch's health. It's already hard enough to make trades being over the apron - maybe someone with a better handle on the cap/apron can correct me - but wouldn't any follow up trades necessary for a rebalance basically require blowing up the current core?

Fair.

I don't watch Houston much and am kinda projecting with Amen but he seems like a deamon and just needs a bit more to figure out the jumpshot. He will be a defensive player of the year, soon, and you would start 3 of them give or take in Mikal, OG, Amen with Mitch behind them. That is stout defense. I can't tell how crucial Amen is to Houston's record this year but he does seem like an integral piece. Have to super project his talents and then fit.

It would make NY more of a defensive small ball team. Teams like GS don't even have a center and never did. Besides, Taj back in the saddle would be awesome and you know Herb is out there somewhere

nycericanguy wrote:no way would HOU trade Amen for KD

Yeah, I have no idea how hot and heavy Rockets are for KD. It just takes one crazy owner though.

Hopefully Houston fails out quick in the playoffs. They got the Warriors in the first round with Playoff Jimmy doing his thing.

I would rather bite the bullet and trade KAT for KD and Nick Richards (or some combination to make salaries work). And that's prob not a good idea but it could make us better for 1-2 seasons?

If we did the proposed trade I would really want Cam Whitmore instead of FVV if possible (more upside/shooting). Maybe sub in Dillon Brooks, Steven Adams and others to fill salary...and yeah include Eason (good player) and a pick as well.

I would also seriously trade KAT for IHart if that somehow allowed us money to reobtain DDV so I can continue living in the past

I’m just mesmerized by this guys talent. And it seems like he wants to defend, make a crazy assist, and then score, in that order of importance. Hard worker. The jump shot would have to come eventually.

All wing team.

Brunson, Mikal, Amen, OG, Mitch.
FVV, Kolek, Shamet, Josh, McCullar, Pacdaddy, Eason, Huk

So much fun to watch that team going high speed all the time. Push the ball, defend like crazy. 30 or less per player. Now you know I’m high cause Thibs is deciding between turning a new leaf or rolling over in a grave. 30mpg or less, that’s the team motto.

Ixnay I guess

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I'd view him as a bigger version of SGA who has more of a defensive background than an offensive one.

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If you are Phoenix are you really not taking a package of FVV, Jalen Green and maybe Jabari Smith? You get 2 young players who fit your SL, get younger and are still a competitive team built around Booker?

And Houston - you keep Amen, Sengun, Eason and all your picks and add KD?

VDesai wrote:If you are Phoenix are you really not taking a package of FVV, Jalen Green and maybe Jabari Smith? You get 2 young players who fit your SL, get younger and are still a competitive team built around Booker?

And Houston - you keep Amen, Sengun, Eason and all your picks and add KD?

Yeah good deal

VDesai wrote:If you are Phoenix are you really not taking a package of FVV, Jalen Green and maybe Jabari Smith? You get 2 young players who fit your SL, get younger and are still a competitive team built around Booker?

And Houston - you keep Amen, Sengun, Eason and all your picks and add KD?

Makes sense.
We all know Eason is the key.

I’m not trading KAT. I’m still building around he and Brunson. The goal should just be the further insulate them defensively. Either by moving KAT to the 4 and pairing him with a rim protector, or moving hart to the bench and replacing him with an elite defender at the point of attack. Either way moving Hart to the bench addresses the bench concerns, and allows an opportunity to plug some gaps in the starting lineup to better support Brunson/ KAT with more shooting and/or defense.

Knixkik wrote:I’m not trading KAT. I’m still building around he and Brunson. The goal should just be the further insulate them defensively. Either by moving KAT to the 4 and pairing him with a rim protector, or moving hart to the bench and replacing him with an elite defender at the point of attack. Either way moving Hart to the bench addresses the bench concerns, and allows an opportunity to plug some gaps in the starting lineup to better support Brunson/ KAT with more shooting and/or defense.

spot on. Especially the bold and I think the FO also see this. Huk is a small indication of the need. I bet we take another in this draft. Not sure I want KAT at the 4 all the time. I like him starting at the 5 but giving him stretches at the 4 as we saw in game 1 is key. Maybe a 50/50 split. He sure looked good next to Rudy for most of the year

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I’m not trading KAT. I’m still building around he and Brunson. The goal should just be the further insulate them defensively. Either by moving KAT to the 4 and pairing him with a rim protector, or moving hart to the bench and replacing him with an elite defender at the point of attack. Either way moving Hart to the bench addresses the bench concerns, and allows an opportunity to plug some gaps in the starting lineup to better support Brunson/ KAT with more shooting and/or defense.

spot on. Especially the bold and I think the FO also see this. Huk is a small indication of the need. I bet we take another in this draft. Not sure I want KAT at the 4 all the time. I like him starting at the 5 but giving him stretches at the 4 as we saw in game 1 is key. Maybe a 50/50 split. He sure looked good next to Rudy for most of the year

Yeah I think playing him at both is probably where things end up. The question is whether Mitch is the guy you want to be the 5 next to him and behind him or is it someone more reliable to be on the floor. And lets assume its a Mitch style of center playing next to him, and not someone with more offensive chops. I think Kessler is still a possibility.

VDesai wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I’m not trading KAT. I’m still building around he and Brunson. The goal should just be the further insulate them defensively. Either by moving KAT to the 4 and pairing him with a rim protector, or moving hart to the bench and replacing him with an elite defender at the point of attack. Either way moving Hart to the bench addresses the bench concerns, and allows an opportunity to plug some gaps in the starting lineup to better support Brunson/ KAT with more shooting and/or defense.

spot on. Especially the bold and I think the FO also see this. Huk is a small indication of the need. I bet we take another in this draft. Not sure I want KAT at the 4 all the time. I like him starting at the 5 but giving him stretches at the 4 as we saw in game 1 is key. Maybe a 50/50 split. He sure looked good next to Rudy for most of the year

Yeah I think playing him at both is probably where things end up. The question is whether Mitch is the guy you want to be the 5 next to him and behind him or is it someone more reliable to be on the floor. And lets assume its a Mitch style of center playing next to him, and not someone with more offensive chops. I think Kessler is still a possibility.

Yeah. It's why the Knicks went hard after Kessler.

It's also why when they make a trade, they try to get another C. Like James Nnaji, formerly with Charlotte.

There will be some dude like Goga Bitadze (pre $21M contract given to him by Orlando) that wants to get exposure like the pre-iHart Knicks and will take a chance on the Knicks. Defense, rebound, set picks and if you have an outside shot, you have a chance to join the Thibs lineup of backup centers who went from meh to iHart contract.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I’m not trading KAT. I’m still building around he and Brunson. The goal should just be the further insulate them defensively. Either by moving KAT to the 4 and pairing him with a rim protector, or moving hart to the bench and replacing him with an elite defender at the point of attack. Either way moving Hart to the bench addresses the bench concerns, and allows an opportunity to plug some gaps in the starting lineup to better support Brunson/ KAT with more shooting and/or defense.

spot on. Especially the bold and I think the FO also see this. Huk is a small indication of the need. I bet we take another in this draft. Not sure I want KAT at the 4 all the time. I like him starting at the 5 but giving him stretches at the 4 as we saw in game 1 is key. Maybe a 50/50 split. He sure looked good next to Rudy for most of the year

Yeah I think playing him at both is probably where things end up. The question is whether Mitch is the guy you want to be the 5 next to him and behind him or is it someone more reliable to be on the floor. And lets assume its a Mitch style of center playing next to him, and not someone with more offensive chops. I think Kessler is still a possibility.

Yeah. It's why the Knicks went hard after Kessler.

It's also why when they make a trade, they try to get another C. Like James Nnaji, formerly with Charlotte.

There will be some dude like Goga Bitadze (pre $21M contract given to him by Orlando) that wants to get exposure like the pre-iHart Knicks and will take a chance on the Knicks. Defense, rebound, set picks and if you have an outside shot, you have a chance to join the Thibs lineup of backup centers who went from meh to iHart contract.

I do wonder if Hartenstein resigned or if we got Kessler, if Towns was also in the plans or not. But regardless, Kessler might still be part of the plan. Another name i would love is Keon Ellie. He’s one of the best point of attack defenders in the league and a career 43% 3pt shooter. And he’s on a minimum contract. Scott Perry runs the Kings now. Does that relationship help or hurt in this case ?

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I’m not trading KAT. I’m still building around he and Brunson. The goal should just be the further insulate them defensively. Either by moving KAT to the 4 and pairing him with a rim protector, or moving hart to the bench and replacing him with an elite defender at the point of attack. Either way moving Hart to the bench addresses the bench concerns, and allows an opportunity to plug some gaps in the starting lineup to better support Brunson/ KAT with more shooting and/or defense.

spot on. Especially the bold and I think the FO also see this. Huk is a small indication of the need. I bet we take another in this draft. Not sure I want KAT at the 4 all the time. I like him starting at the 5 but giving him stretches at the 4 as we saw in game 1 is key. Maybe a 50/50 split. He sure looked good next to Rudy for most of the year

Yeah I think playing him at both is probably where things end up. The question is whether Mitch is the guy you want to be the 5 next to him and behind him or is it someone more reliable to be on the floor. And lets assume its a Mitch style of center playing next to him, and not someone with more offensive chops. I think Kessler is still a possibility.

Yeah. It's why the Knicks went hard after Kessler.

It's also why when they make a trade, they try to get another C. Like James Nnaji, formerly with Charlotte.

There will be some dude like Goga Bitadze (pre $21M contract given to him by Orlando) that wants to get exposure like the pre-iHart Knicks and will take a chance on the Knicks. Defense, rebound, set picks and if you have an outside shot, you have a chance to join the Thibs lineup of backup centers who went from meh to iHart contract.

I do wonder if Hartenstein resigned or if we got Kessler, if Towns was also in the plans or not. But regardless, Kessler might still be part of the plan. Another name i would love is Keon Ellie. He’s one of the best point of attack defenders in the league and a career 43% 3pt shooter. And he’s on a minimum contract. Scott Perry runs the Kings now. Does that relationship help or hurt in this case ?

I think 100% YES.

I have a vague theory that most all championship level teams need 2 near elite offensive engines. Maybe there are 1-off situations where your defense is so good that you can get away with 1 (Iverson, Hakeem, etc.) but it's more anomaly than anything or there are 2 offensive players after your alpha that are good enough while you have some elite defensive team things going on.

As well, the near 5-out potential.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I’m not trading KAT. I’m still building around he and Brunson. The goal should just be the further insulate them defensively. Either by moving KAT to the 4 and pairing him with a rim protector, or moving hart to the bench and replacing him with an elite defender at the point of attack. Either way moving Hart to the bench addresses the bench concerns, and allows an opportunity to plug some gaps in the starting lineup to better support Brunson/ KAT with more shooting and/or defense.

spot on. Especially the bold and I think the FO also see this. Huk is a small indication of the need. I bet we take another in this draft. Not sure I want KAT at the 4 all the time. I like him starting at the 5 but giving him stretches at the 4 as we saw in game 1 is key. Maybe a 50/50 split. He sure looked good next to Rudy for most of the year

Yeah I think playing him at both is probably where things end up. The question is whether Mitch is the guy you want to be the 5 next to him and behind him or is it someone more reliable to be on the floor. And lets assume its a Mitch style of center playing next to him, and not someone with more offensive chops. I think Kessler is still a possibility.

Yeah. It's why the Knicks went hard after Kessler.

It's also why when they make a trade, they try to get another C. Like James Nnaji, formerly with Charlotte.

There will be some dude like Goga Bitadze (pre $21M contract given to him by Orlando) that wants to get exposure like the pre-iHart Knicks and will take a chance on the Knicks. Defense, rebound, set picks and if you have an outside shot, you have a chance to join the Thibs lineup of backup centers who went from meh to iHart contract.

I do wonder if Hartenstein resigned or if we got Kessler, if Towns was also in the plans or not. But regardless, Kessler might still be part of the plan. Another name i would love is Keon Ellie. He’s one of the best point of attack defenders in the league and a career 43% 3pt shooter. And he’s on a minimum contract. Scott Perry runs the Kings now. Does that relationship help or hurt in this case ?

Rosas is likely the trade master with Aller as the money guy. not to say Leon does not have his hand in things, he signs off. Dolan gets final say as he writes the checks. WWW? What does he do here again?

Knicks are very good at digging up unheralded up and coming players. iHart was a great example that perhaps worked out TOO GOOD!
Kessler is almost too good for back up duty but to start with Kat at the 4, OG and the 3, and Josh to the bench might be the way?
Are there any others? Is Huk our guy going forward? His injuries prior to being a knick and this season does not bode well for him being a stable piece.
Good offensive teams excel with creating turnover and defense.

I don't know the path but I can also live with Mitch playing out his contract one more year and then walking as free agent.

Rockets make sense for KD. OKC has the assets also. I'd like to see a reunion in OKC. Make for a nice story if they successful.

I understand not all around here are fond of KD. he fails in a new city then its another stain they can celebrate that also!