Knicks · Knicks off season moves (page 15)

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I refuse to watch Josh Hart again with a key role. I'm sick of him producing fucking dick when it comes time for meaningful playoff basketball

I wish we could flip him for IQ. I think another team that needs a starter would trade a legit sixth man for him. I want Lou William or Jamal Crawford (post Knicks)

Hart can't do it. In fact, all he does is dribble the ball into the teeth of a decent teams' defense

Think of it completely flipped: Josh Hart was never meant to be a starter for the Knicks but he was forced to and stepped up big time until the tail end of the playoffs. Like, literally he was GOLD all year all things considered.

That’s how good of a bench player he was and how good the Knicks managed around that all season.

I don’t think that’s too far off from reality.

Josh tried to play over his head some in the ECF but if he played like this while coming off bench all year, he is considered best in league at exactly his role as 6th man. Where he should have been.

And that’s how good he was.

I don't think we need a bench player that 1) can't shoot and 2) doesn't defend 3) makes poor decisions over and over --- I don't think he's a valuable piece.

I'd like to buy into the thought he's a great clubhouse guy but I don't think he works particularly hard off the court and his habit of pointing at his teammates every time he makes a piss poor play irritates the hell out of me.

That’s a particularly bonkers take IMO

Well which of my 3 points do you think are bonkers or maybe all?

DLeethal wrote:I’m old enough to remember these .. Josh saved our ass in games 1 and while Jalen had two awful games and then closed out the series with a shot just as good as Jalen’s against DET.

Any 3 Hart makes the other team is standing in the paint giving him the shot.

I absolutely loved and cheered the Hart trade and spoke often of his influence on Knicks victories.

Where that Josh Hart went this year - I don't know but I saw a very limited player who made a ton of bad plays and decisions.

Question.

I've seen some 3 team trade ideas floated out there where PHX/Minny/NY are involved.

Kat to PHX
KD to Minny
Naz/Donte to Knicks

My question is regarding Naz.

Naz is a free agent and would need to sign and be traded - is it accurate that we can't acquire a player (Naz) via a sign and tree?

LivingLegend wrote:Question.

I've seen some 3 team trade ideas floated out there where PHX/Minny/NY are involved.

Kat to PHX
KD to Minny
Naz/Donte to Knicks

My question is regarding Naz.

Naz is a free agent and would need to sign and be traded - is it accurate that we can't acquire a player (Naz) via a sign and tree?

I like that trade if Naz resigning isn't crazy and we can save a bit of money. Naz can hit the three and having Donte back would help move Hart or Bridges to the bench - which would help out immensely. Maybe we should also receive a pick in this deal as KAT is the best player moving due to KD being 44 years old...

LivingLegend wrote:Question.

I've seen some 3 team trade ideas floated out there where PHX/Minny/NY are involved.

Kat to PHX
KD to Minny
Naz/Donte to Knicks

My question is regarding Naz.

Naz is a free agent and would need to sign and be traded - is it accurate that we can't acquire a player (Naz) via a sign and tree?

I’m gonna puke.

DLeethal wrote:Towns had 20 points in 6 minutes in the 4th quarter on the road to save us from going down 0-3 and also prevented us from potentially losing in round 1 with insane clutch buckets and after a bad game 6 everyone saying he can’t perform under the lights lol

Just seems wild to me. Both guys have questionable fits here long term but they are both gamers.

They hate KAT and are still clinging to Randle/DDV.

I’m fine trading Hart and KAT. But not because Hart had a bad playoff series and KAT had a bad game 6 and thus are playoff chokers. Those guys have delivered huge playoff moments for us. Their fits on the team are worthy of questioning and you need to gauge their value. We don’t have a ton of contracts to trade.

LivingLegend wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I refuse to watch Josh Hart again with a key role. I'm sick of him producing fucking dick when it comes time for meaningful playoff basketball

I wish we could flip him for IQ. I think another team that needs a starter would trade a legit sixth man for him. I want Lou William or Jamal Crawford (post Knicks)

Hart can't do it. In fact, all he does is dribble the ball into the teeth of a decent teams' defense

Hart is extremely skilled with passing and taking it strong to the hoop. Elite at it. Rebounding too, but that's a diff story. Hart needs a SYSTEM where he could pick his spots and have a defined role. Same for Bridges. He would be amazing in a system. Towns too, the system can be built around his passing and driving. And then we would have Jalen's ISO as a fall back option late on the clock. Instead of it being the only option, after having dribbled the clock out....

Hart is NOT extremely skilled as a passer -- not in any way, shape or form. He's a piss poor decision maker #1 which instantly eliminates him from great passer status. Think back to how many passes he thru into the 4th row of the stands this year.

He was a guy who was given heavy minutes and heavy on ball time - he had some high assist games --- he's a poor decision maker with the ball and a less than good passer.

Consider the context please. He did what you are describing in an offense that doesn't prioritize ball moving, player moving. He pretty much had to become his own Cris Paul. Yes, he isn't a PG or a creator. But you are massively discounting his passing ability. In a system with offensive creativity he could average 7-8 assists with low turnovers( because he would not have to invent plays in real time, like he has been doing)

I also think that Hart was asked to do too much with the offensive/defensive schemes this team has. Our offense is" my ISO is bigger than your ISO" while our d is "my SL has only 2 guys that are good defenders"

jskinny35 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Question.

I've seen some 3 team trade ideas floated out there where PHX/Minny/NY are involved.

Kat to PHX
KD to Minny
Naz/Donte to Knicks

My question is regarding Naz.

Naz is a free agent and would need to sign and be traded - is it accurate that we can't acquire a player (Naz) via a sign and tree?

I like that trade if Naz resigning isn't crazy and we can save a bit of money. Naz can hit the three and having Donte back would help move Hart or Bridges to the bench - which would help out immensely. Maybe we should also receive a pick in this deal as KAT is the best player moving due to KD being 44 years old...

No no and no. Naz is the kid that played on your HS team and chucked long threes every time you passed him the ball. Never got back to play D and never went down low despite being the tallest on the court. Funny thing was that Minny thought he could replace KAT as the floor spacing big. He didn’t.

Hart was dropping triple doubles like crazy. He’s a capable playmaker. If he’s your second best playmaker he’s likely to get exposed in a playoff series against an elite coach. Best suited as a 1a/b bench playmaker ala Igoudala.

HofstraBBall wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Question.

I've seen some 3 team trade ideas floated out there where PHX/Minny/NY are involved.

Kat to PHX
KD to Minny
Naz/Donte to Knicks

My question is regarding Naz.

Naz is a free agent and would need to sign and be traded - is it accurate that we can't acquire a player (Naz) via a sign and tree?

I like that trade if Naz resigning isn't crazy and we can save a bit of money. Naz can hit the three and having Donte back would help move Hart or Bridges to the bench - which would help out immensely. Maybe we should also receive a pick in this deal as KAT is the best player moving due to KD being 44 years old...

No no and no. Naz is the kid that played on your HS team and chucked long threes every time you passed him the ball. Never got back to play D and never went down low despite being the tallest on the court. Funny thing was that Minny thought he could replace KAT as the floor spacing big. He didn’t.

38% from 3 on 6 attempts is pretty damn good

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I refuse to watch Josh Hart again with a key role. I'm sick of him producing fucking dick when it comes time for meaningful playoff basketball

I wish we could flip him for IQ. I think another team that needs a starter would trade a legit sixth man for him. I want Lou William or Jamal Crawford (post Knicks)

Hart can't do it. In fact, all he does is dribble the ball into the teeth of a decent teams' defense

Think of it completely flipped: Josh Hart was never meant to be a starter for the Knicks but he was forced to and stepped up big time until the tail end of the playoffs. Like, literally he was GOLD all year all things considered.

That’s how good of a bench player he was and how good the Knicks managed around that all season.

I don’t think that’s too far off from reality.

Josh tried to play over his head some in the ECF but if he played like this while coming off bench all year, he is considered best in league at exactly his role as 6th man. Where he should have been.

And that’s how good he was.

I don't think we need a bench player that 1) can't shoot and 2) doesn't defend 3) makes poor decisions over and over --- I don't think he's a valuable piece.

I'd like to buy into the thought he's a great clubhouse guy but I don't think he works particularly hard off the court and his habit of pointing at his teammates every time he makes a piss poor play irritates the hell out of me.

Hart is the player you don’t notice until he is not there.
Kinda like Mitch. Most want an offensive player but when teams are scoring at will and Mitch comes in, you appreciate the difference.
Harts hustle and non stop energy is huge. Makes others better and is a key difference maker in big moments of a game.
With that said, no secret I think that his lack of shooting hurts the team against the elite teams in the playoffs.
We need someone with his hustle on both sides who can shoot the three consistently and is experienced in the playoffs. But who is that exactly and are they attainable?

29 other teams would love Hart, especially at his contract. He can play and fit on any team.

KAT is a much more difficult fit, especially at HIS contract.

KAT wasn't the reason we lost, but if he can't play with Brunson that doesn't bode well for him. I mean does anyone think we don't win this series if we had Ihart instead?

nycericanguy wrote:29 other teams would love Hart, especially at his contract. He can play and fit on any team.

KAT is a much more difficult fit, especially at HIS contract.

KAT wasn't the reason we lost, but if he can't play with Brunson that doesn't bode well for him. I mean does anyone think we don't win this series if we had Ihart instead?

For that reason I think he has to be put on the trade market. Outside of Mikal pre-extension, Hart is our most tradable piece/contract and you could probably get two solid players back and get some depth. I think the list of contenders that would love Josh Hart is very long.

List of teams I think would potentially deal for KAT:

Grizzlies
Clippers
Suns
Kings
Magic
Hawks
Raptors
Hornets

These teams are either contenders needing to retool and have a core in place, or they are play-in level teams that are looking to make a jump by adding an all NBA stretch big, or they are crappy teams tired of the incessant losing. I haven't scoured each one of these teams for trade ideas but I saw someone floating Zubac and Norm Powell for KAT on X.

I'm pretty firmly in the trade KAT boat, especially since it seems Thibs will be back. But I could also be sold on some legitimate depth and toughness replenishment that goes beyond simply using our MLE and running it back. That would require a Josh Hart and/or Mitch trade to get some legit depth back.

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:29 other teams would love Hart, especially at his contract. He can play and fit on any team.

KAT is a much more difficult fit, especially at HIS contract.

KAT wasn't the reason we lost, but if he can't play with Brunson that doesn't bode well for him. I mean does anyone think we don't win this series if we had Ihart instead?

For that reason I think he has to be put on the trade market. Outside of Mikal pre-extension, Hart is our most tradable piece/contract and you could probably get two solid players back and get some depth. I think the list of contenders that would love Josh Hart is very long.

Hart is really often the heart and soul of this team, not to mention Brunson's best friend, I dont think we need to disturb that.

KAT is clearly the odd man out in alot of ways.

I think if there's a move for KAT that makes sense you consider it, he's making a ton and you can really make the case we were better with Mitch out there. but we shouldn't be looking to blow up the core or piss off Brunson.

HofstraBBall wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Question.

I've seen some 3 team trade ideas floated out there where PHX/Minny/NY are involved.

Kat to PHX
KD to Minny
Naz/Donte to Knicks

My question is regarding Naz.

Naz is a free agent and would need to sign and be traded - is it accurate that we can't acquire a player (Naz) via a sign and tree?

I like that trade if Naz resigning isn't crazy and we can save a bit of money. Naz can hit the three and having Donte back would help move Hart or Bridges to the bench - which would help out immensely. Maybe we should also receive a pick in this deal as KAT is the best player moving due to KD being 44 years old...

No no and no. Naz is the kid that played on your HS team and chucked long threes every time you passed him the ball. Never got back to play D and never went down low despite being the tallest on the court. Funny thing was that Minny thought he could replace KAT as the floor spacing big. He didn’t.

The post was asking a ? Are we able to trade for a NAZ REID if it's a sign & trade? I didn't think we could do that.

My assumption on those names above is Knicks would get at least another asset or 2. Maybe a Dunn from Phx.

DLeethal wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Question.

I've seen some 3 team trade ideas floated out there where PHX/Minny/NY are involved.

Kat to PHX
KD to Minny
Naz/Donte to Knicks

My question is regarding Naz.

Naz is a free agent and would need to sign and be traded - is it accurate that we can't acquire a player (Naz) via a sign and tree?

I like that trade if Naz resigning isn't crazy and we can save a bit of money. Naz can hit the three and having Donte back would help move Hart or Bridges to the bench - which would help out immensely. Maybe we should also receive a pick in this deal as KAT is the best player moving due to KD being 44 years old...

No no and no. Naz is the kid that played on your HS team and chucked long threes every time you passed him the ball. Never got back to play D and never went down low despite being the tallest on the court. Funny thing was that Minny thought he could replace KAT as the floor spacing big. He didn’t.

38% from 3 on 6 attempts is pretty damn good

Another big with tremendous SKILL - elite driver/shooter. Not sure about his D and rebounding.

Big thing with Kat if we ever think about trading him - dude rebounds the ball - something rest of our squad outside Josh/Mitch doesn't do.

nycericanguy wrote:29 other teams would love Hart, especially at his contract. He can play and fit on any team.

KAT is a much more difficult fit, especially at HIS contract.

KAT wasn't the reason we lost, but if he can't play with Brunson that doesn't bode well for him. I mean does anyone think we don't win this series if we had Ihart instead?

No way 29 other teams love Hart - his shooting & D as an undersized wing alone would eliminate him from many teams.

Teams aren't lining up to pay Hart $18M -- he's so invaluable 3 teams have already traded him.