Knicks · Knicks off season moves (page 19)

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Another lane we need to consider, is the lane similar to Boston trading for Jrue and KP. They basically made a couple mid tier trades, for guys who were maybe a little undervalued at the time but were prior all star level guys.

We have a tradable 1st and Mitch/Hart/Deuce essentially to make those kind of trades.

We basically have the starphucking lane with guys like Giannis and KD.
We have the "stay the course" lane with vets and cheap labor.

The mid tier lane needs to be considered as well. Boston traded their "heart and soul" Marcus Smart and a pick for KP which took them from ECF to champion. What could Hart and a 1st net us on the market? I honestly see a lot of similarities in Smart, and Hart, and their meaning to the pre 2024 Celtics and the current Knicks respectively. And also the need to maybe make the tough decision to move on and package the contract with a pick for the final missing piece for this team.

You right. Knicks are positioned quite nicely to go big, do some middle things, or margin moves and then head home for the summer.

Lots of paths forward and you don't even need to go into 2nd apron AND can still rebuild in a couple of years at end of KAT's contract before Jalen is Super Maxed.

Couple of hot irons to work out but FO has options. Lots of them. And they in the drivers seat for most of them.

Knicks at the crossroads, but in a good way.

Agreed, and once we get to the end of this 3 year window our pick situation will start to look better as well.

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Another lane we need to consider, is the lane similar to Boston trading for Jrue and KP. They basically made a couple mid tier trades, for guys who were maybe a little undervalued at the time but were prior all star level guys.

We have a tradable 1st and Mitch/Hart/Deuce essentially to make those kind of trades.

We basically have the starphucking lane with guys like Giannis and KD.
We have the "stay the course" lane with vets and cheap labor.

The mid tier lane needs to be considered as well. Boston traded their "heart and soul" Marcus Smart and a pick for KP which took them from ECF to champion. What could Hart and a 1st net us on the market? I honestly see a lot of similarities in Smart, and Hart, and their meaning to the pre 2024 Celtics and the current Knicks respectively. And also the need to maybe make the tough decision to move on and package the contract with a pick for the final missing piece for this team.

I feel like trading Hart could backfire, not only because of the intangibles he brings, but because he's Brunson's best friend. He's also played in 158 out of a possible 164 games the past 2 seasons. He's an ironman.

Any trade of value could backfire. Knicks seem reluctant to give guys extensions into their 30s. I think Hart will either sign for a big discount or get traded before his contract is up.

Selling high is one of the hardest things to do. But it's smart. Hart, Mitch both need to be on the table unless you plan to extend them and keep them around long term. But selling high is something nobody wants to do because it means the player you are trading is coming off a great season and there are a lot of reasons not to trade them. There is no other way to sell high than to make that hard decision ala Dante.

DLeethal wrote:Selling high is one of the hardest things to do. But it's smart. Hart, Mitch both need to be on the table unless you plan to extend them and keep them around long term. But selling high is something nobody wants to do because it means the player you are trading is coming off a great season and there are a lot of reasons not to trade them. There is no other way to sell high than to make that hard decision ala Dante.

It works in stocks (sell high buy low)

blkexec wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Selling high is one of the hardest things to do. But it's smart. Hart, Mitch both need to be on the table unless you plan to extend them and keep them around long term. But selling high is something nobody wants to do because it means the player you are trading is coming off a great season and there are a lot of reasons not to trade them. There is no other way to sell high than to make that hard decision ala Dante.

It works in stocks (sell high buy low)

Exactly. I suck at selling high because you always have FOMO. But you almost always regret not doing it. Mitch's playoff run is the ultimate personification of an asset on a big run that you feel will keep going ... and most of the time when it comes back down you are kicking yourself for not capitalizing on it.

Starting with the roster that we had this year. Are we going to bring back any of the free agents? ( Payne, Achiuwa, Wright, Shamet and restricted free agent McCullar Jr.). Then we have the 3 rookies Dadiet, Kolec and Hukporti. If we are not going to give them minutes this year then is there a point to keep them around? All of the above players are 1/2 of our roster. I am hoping that Kolec gets some minutes and if that's the case then Wright should also remain to provide the defense when needed that Kolec/Brunson cannot. I am also assuming that we want to keep Achiuwa (if can be done financially) but he will probable not stay. Hukporti can provide valuable minutes behind Robinson if needed or behind KAT if Robinson gets injured.
If there is a way to enter the Antetokounmpo sweepstakes should we also consider that? Is it financial possible? Will he consider coming to a big market? I am sure the guy is hungry for another title and he has a few good years remaining. We can give both Anunoby and Bridges and still come out winners. We can probably give KAT also and still be in a better position for a title.

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Another lane we need to consider, is the lane similar to Boston trading for Jrue and KP. They basically made a couple mid tier trades, for guys who were maybe a little undervalued at the time but were prior all star level guys.

We have a tradable 1st and Mitch/Hart/Deuce essentially to make those kind of trades.

We basically have the starphucking lane with guys like Giannis and KD.
We have the "stay the course" lane with vets and cheap labor.

The mid tier lane needs to be considered as well. Boston traded their "heart and soul" Marcus Smart and a pick for KP which took them from ECF to champion. What could Hart and a 1st net us on the market? I honestly see a lot of similarities in Smart, and Hart, and their meaning to the pre 2024 Celtics and the current Knicks respectively. And also the need to maybe make the tough decision to move on and package the contract with a pick for the final missing piece for this team.

I feel like trading Hart could backfire, not only because of the intangibles he brings, but because he's Brunson's best friend. He's also played in 158 out of a possible 164 games the past 2 seasons. He's an ironman.

Any trade of value could backfire. Knicks seem reluctant to give guys extensions into their 30s. I think Hart will either sign for a big discount or get traded before his contract is up.

Hart's extension is while he is in his 30's. Just turned 30 and got 3 more years.

I think it's a bit more nuanced. Knicks know what value they want to sign a guy and that's that. You either extend at that price or you are moved. Randle, RJ, IQ, etc. And there are obviously other factors. Brock already that move ahead with his thinking.

DLeethal wrote:Selling high is one of the hardest things to do. But it's smart. Hart, Mitch both need to be on the table unless you plan to extend them and keep them around long term. But selling high is something nobody wants to do because it means the player you are trading is coming off a great season and there are a lot of reasons not to trade them. There is no other way to sell high than to make that hard decision ala Dante.

I got Mitch and Deuce on that list. Just don't see Hart there for whatever reason.

schizash wrote:Starting with the roster that we had this year. Are we going to bring back any of the free agents? ( Payne, Achiuwa, Wright, Shamet and restricted free agent McCullar Jr.). Then we have the 3 rookies Dadiet, Kolec and Hukporti. If we are not going to give them minutes this year then is there a point to keep them around? All of the above players are 1/2 of our roster. I am hoping that Kolec gets some minutes and if that's the case then Wright should also remain to provide the defense when needed that Kolec/Brunson cannot. I am also assuming that we want to keep Achiuwa (if can be done financially) but he will probable not stay. Hukporti can provide valuable minutes behind Robinson if needed or behind KAT if Robinson gets injured.
If there is a way to enter the Antetokounmpo sweepstakes should we also consider that? Is it financial possible? Will he consider coming to a big market? I am sure the guy is hungry for another title and he has a few good years remaining. We can give both Anunoby and Bridges and still come out winners. We can probably give KAT also and still be in a better position for a title.

I'd guess no on Payne, Precious. Can't see why they wouldn't offer Wright, Shamet. McCullar ain't going nowhere unless he is beyond the injury threshold. He'll be too cheap to not bring back.

I don't want big moves this off season. Meaning, I want Mitch, KAT, OG, Bridges and JB back as the starting five. A big move means you will need to move one or more of these guys for another player.
Mitch needs to work on his FTs.
KAT needs to lose some weight to help him laterally.
OG needs to work on foot work.
Bridges needs to find consistency in his perimeter game.
JB needs to lose some weight to get faster and quicker.

Josh to me is at a crossroads. He needs to get his perimeter game going or he needs to sit.

I think Precious is done. I love him but his inconsistencies drives me crazy. He needs a motor and at his age, I am not sure he can all of a sudden get one. He is also a space cadet sometimes. Not at the level of Knox but pretty close.

Payne is done. Age is against him as well. Also, never liked his shot selection.

Landry Shamet needs to be back. I consider him a sniper and we need more of those. Plus, he is a willing defender.

Deuce? I think you use him to make moves. Either get a 1st rounder or another tall 3 and D guy. 6'7" or taller.

Hukporti needs to be developed. We need him to be in the rotation and backup Mitch. Needs to get stronger.

Kolek needs to crack the rotation. His issues this year was that he lost his 3 point shot. Needs to find it. Needs to get a little faster also.

Dadiet is the key for next year. This guy needs to develop fast. He has the tools and he needs to be 6 or 7 in the rotation. He can defend and has a perimeter game. Indiana, Detroit, Houston and OKC has an abundance of these type of players. We need to develop him ASAP.

McCullar JR is the wild card. Very intriguing set of skills. A defensive demon in college. Needs to teach him not to foul. Can we get a version of the Thompson twins here?

Beauchamp is a very interesting player. Drafted late in the 1st round back in 2021 by the Bucks. Not exactly sure what happened to him with the Bucks. Looking at his stats, he was playing around 13 MPG his first 2 years and was shooting .400 in 3s the 2nd year. He got traded to the Clippers and was waived after a week.

So...my move would be to trade Deuce for a 1st rounder this draft. Then draft a 6'7" or taller sniper with that pick. Select a backup C with our 2nd rounder.

NBA Finals is the next step. Let's Fucking Go!

Should we surprised if Josh has some knee procedure this off season and is relegated to bench with a better roster and say 25 minute role and that helps that outside shot?
I like his defense with Jalen. Deuce also had "Jumpers knee" and looked better in the playoffs but at 6-2 even with his wingspan I don't see this.
They both played hurt about all season.

Hard for this fan to relegate them as trade chips given they "family". The above could determine their trade value if its a thing. Deuce contract is a bargain if we keep him or as a chip.

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:KAT & OG for Giannis is what I think our best move ultimately is. And Portis & Kuzma for salary filler.

I think OG only because he's injury prone and not part of the Nova connection.

Leaves us with

Giannis
Portis
Mikal
Hart
Brunson

Deuce, Mitch, Hukiport, Kuzma off the bench.

I don't love it. But hard to turn down Giannis. IMO we don't have a good shot at Giannis. Durant is more likely because of his contract situation ala Butler. He can dictate where he goes more than Giannis. We are also more likely to be able to do a 1:1 swap with him.

Houston is reportedly interested in Durant. If that's the case, then they're the clear frontrunners. They have all the Suns picks and they have more young, cheap talent. As for Giannis, he'd have to force a trade here. I'm sure Milwaukee would want restock their draft asset pool and would not want to take on nearly $100M in salary. TBH, I'm not sure we could get Giannis if even tried to force a deal here. It's the Dame Lillard/Portland situation all over again.

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Stars aligning

BigDaddyG wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:KAT & OG for Giannis is what I think our best move ultimately is. And Portis & Kuzma for salary filler.

I think OG only because he's injury prone and not part of the Nova connection.

Leaves us with

Giannis
Portis
Mikal
Hart
Brunson

Deuce, Mitch, Hukiport, Kuzma off the bench.

I don't love it. But hard to turn down Giannis. IMO we don't have a good shot at Giannis. Durant is more likely because of his contract situation ala Butler. He can dictate where he goes more than Giannis. We are also more likely to be able to do a 1:1 swap with him.

Houston is reportedly interested in Durant. If that's the case, then they're the clear frontrunners. They have all the Suns picks and they have more young, cheap talent. As for Giannis, he'd have to force a trade here. I'm sure Milwaukee would want restock their draft asset pool and would not want to take on nearly $100M in salary. TBH, I'm not sure we could get Giannis if even tried to force a deal here. It's the Dame Lillard/Portland situation all over again.

Agree although Durant can pretty much dictate where he goes IMO like Butler did. No one will touch him if he doesn’t want to be there.

KAT for Durant
Deuce and WAS 1st for Walker Kessler
Sign CP3

Brunson - Mikal - OG - Durant - Kessler
CP3 - Shamet - Hart - Mitch

Seems like Minny fans are more than ready to throw Gobert into the mix.

DLeethal wrote:KAT for Durant
Deuce and WAS 1st for Walker Kessler
Sign CP3

Brunson - Mikal - OG - Durant - Kessler
CP3 - Shamet - Hart - Mitch

That's an interesting sets of moves that could really help as we could retain Mitch and Kessler is pretty flexible position wise...

jskinny35 wrote:

DLeethal wrote:KAT for Durant
Deuce and WAS 1st for Walker Kessler
Sign CP3

Brunson - Mikal - OG - Durant - Kessler
CP3 - Shamet - Hart - Mitch

That's an interesting sets of moves that could really help as we could retain Mitch and Kessler is pretty flexible position wise...

I miss the iHart/Mitch platoon like I miss my dead pets.

You guys really want Durant? Man is 36 years old. He also thin skinned. I don't think he is built for NY.

NYKBocker wrote:You guys really want Durant? Man is 36 years old. He also thin skinned. I don't think he is built for NY.

Not going to beat a dead horse but the age gap is irrelevant to me because we are looking at a 2-3 year stint whether it's him or KAT, and then they come off the books and we can go FA shopping before Brunson's next deal. To me it is who puts you in a better position for the next 2-3 years? And the answer to me is obvious.

DLeethal wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:You guys really want Durant? Man is 36 years old. He also thin skinned. I don't think he is built for NY.

Not going to beat a dead horse but the age gap is irrelevant to me because we are looking at a 2-3 year stint whether it's him or KAT, and then they come off the books and we can go FA shopping before Brunson's next deal. To me it is who puts you in a better position for the next 2-3 years? And the answer to me is obvious.

What if it's Mitch and OG? That trade makes sense in a vacuum. But OG's value to this team goes beyond numbers and I'd probably balk at the proposal.