Knicks · Game Thread: ECF Game 6 BRING IT BACK HOME! at Pacers 8PM TNT (page 25)
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:I think im not that upset about tonight, but Im also not feeling that proud of the team. Its a team that couldn't stay locked in consistently all year.Props to OG who played a heckuva game.
Same.
Same +1.
I'll add -- this isn't a team I'm comfortable where I'm thinking just tweak this or that and we are contenders. Confidence level in this core is NOT high. If Mikal for example had really stepped up and we lost I'd at least feel rock solid about having a go to 3rd wheel but this guy is a flake.
Mikal gets high scrutiny because of what Leon traded him for IMHO
OG Mikal Mitch are all doing double duty on the D end of things with KAT and Brunson.
I’ve always thought that Mikal is a guy who needs a good setup PG. His best years were with CP3 and young Rubio. Brunson is a very different PG for him and OG and KAT).
A Bridges/Kolek 2nd unit backcourt could be effective, with Bridges taking the tougher defensive assignment.
Bridges had his moments, but got exposed when the game got physical, as it often does in the playoffs. Bridges got rattled.
I think we need a starter who is better equipped to handle the physicality of the playoffs. Its trending back towards more physical play.
I think the OG/Bridges tandem is fine as 3rd/4th options. Bridges has quirks but he has plusses too. I agree with need a tough / physical player added to the starting lineup. And we clearly need another ball handler to help Brunson with the full court playoff pressure.
DLeethal wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:I think im not that upset about tonight, but Im also not feeling that proud of the team. Its a team that couldn't stay locked in consistently all year.Props to OG who played a heckuva game.
Same.
Same +1.
I'll add -- this isn't a team I'm comfortable where I'm thinking just tweak this or that and we are contenders. Confidence level in this core is NOT high. If Mikal for example had really stepped up and we lost I'd at least feel rock solid about having a go to 3rd wheel but this guy is a flake.
Mikal gets high scrutiny because of what Leon traded him for IMHO
OG Mikal Mitch are all doing double duty on the D end of things with KAT and Brunson.
I’ve always thought that Mikal is a guy who needs a good setup PG. His best years were with CP3 and young Rubio. Brunson is a very different PG for him and OG and KAT).
Yea I really don’t think you trade away versatile 2 way wings who can score 15-20 on the other end. Mikal is a good winning player who is likely to sign at a discount. I’d trade Hart for sure before Mikal. Giannis is the only name I’d gladly throw Mikal into the mix for.
Brunson and Wing stop are the surest things we have on this team in terms of winning players to build around.
I don’t think there are too many guys in the league can consistently be your PoA defender and average 17ppg while also shooting 36% from downtown and be there every game for you while also gobbling up the most minutes as a starter.
It’s impressive.
And yet, he must dunk more and get FT’s too!
It’s why I drone on about Herb Jones. He solves a lot of problems while making other guys jobs easier for the things he does and also for the things Mikal, Brunson, and other don’t and won’t need to do.
DLeethal wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:I think im not that upset about tonight, but Im also not feeling that proud of the team. Its a team that couldn't stay locked in consistently all year.Props to OG who played a heckuva game.
Same.
Same +1.
I'll add -- this isn't a team I'm comfortable where I'm thinking just tweak this or that and we are contenders. Confidence level in this core is NOT high. If Mikal for example had really stepped up and we lost I'd at least feel rock solid about having a go to 3rd wheel but this guy is a flake.
Mikal gets high scrutiny because of what Leon traded him for IMHO
OG Mikal Mitch are all doing double duty on the D end of things with KAT and Brunson.
I’ve always thought that Mikal is a guy who needs a good setup PG. His best years were with CP3 and young Rubio. Brunson is a very different PG for him and OG and KAT).
A Bridges/Kolek 2nd unit backcourt could be effective, with Bridges taking the tougher defensive assignment.
Bridges had his moments, but got exposed when the game got physical, as it often does in the playoffs. Bridges got rattled.
I think we need a starter who is better equipped to handle the physicality of the playoffs. Its trending back towards more physical play.
I think the OG/Bridges tandem is fine as 3rd/4th options. Bridges has quirks but he has plusses too. I agree with need a tough / physical player added to the starting lineup. And we clearly need another ball handler to help Brunson with the full court playoff pressure.
I dont think Bridges is the right player for us- not saying he didnt have his moments, but he seems to play a different style of game than our team. A more consistent physical defender who made the 3 more consistently may have been a better fit.
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:I think im not that upset about tonight, but Im also not feeling that proud of the team. Its a team that couldn't stay locked in consistently all year.Props to OG who played a heckuva game.
Same.
Same +1.
I'll add -- this isn't a team I'm comfortable where I'm thinking just tweak this or that and we are contenders. Confidence level in this core is NOT high. If Mikal for example had really stepped up and we lost I'd at least feel rock solid about having a go to 3rd wheel but this guy is a flake.
Mikal gets high scrutiny because of what Leon traded him for IMHO
OG Mikal Mitch are all doing double duty on the D end of things with KAT and Brunson.
I’ve always thought that Mikal is a guy who needs a good setup PG. His best years were with CP3 and young Rubio. Brunson is a very different PG for him and OG and KAT).
Yea I really don’t think you trade away versatile 2 way wings who can score 15-20 on the other end. Mikal is a good winning player who is likely to sign at a discount. I’d trade Hart for sure before Mikal. Giannis is the only name I’d gladly throw Mikal into the mix for.
Brunson and Wing stop are the surest things we have on this team in terms of winning players to build around.
I don’t think there are too many guys in the league can consistently be your PoA defender and average 17ppg while also shooting 36% from downtown and be there every game for you while also gobbling up the most minutes as a starter.
It’s impressive.
And yet, he must dunk more and get FT’s too!
It’s why I drone on about Herb Jones. He solves a lot of problems while making other guys jobs easier for the things he does and also for the things Mikal, Brunson, and other don’t and won’t need to do.
There’s very few who can do what Bridges and OG do. Those are also exactly the types you want around Brunson and also KAT if he sticks. I agree we need one more of those prototypes to make up more of that defensive ground we lose with Brunson and KAT.
DLeethal wrote:Interesting words from Deuce … seems to echo much of the fans sentimentJavascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1929016086722138591?s=46&t=aZhwYE81hpWp3CdrvCUTow
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For me, this is a good thing.
DLeethal wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:I think im not that upset about tonight, but Im also not feeling that proud of the team. Its a team that couldn't stay locked in consistently all year.Props to OG who played a heckuva game.
Same.
Same +1.
I'll add -- this isn't a team I'm comfortable where I'm thinking just tweak this or that and we are contenders. Confidence level in this core is NOT high. If Mikal for example had really stepped up and we lost I'd at least feel rock solid about having a go to 3rd wheel but this guy is a flake.
Mikal gets high scrutiny because of what Leon traded him for IMHO
OG Mikal Mitch are all doing double duty on the D end of things with KAT and Brunson.
I’ve always thought that Mikal is a guy who needs a good setup PG. His best years were with CP3 and young Rubio. Brunson is a very different PG for him and OG and KAT).
A Bridges/Kolek 2nd unit backcourt could be effective, with Bridges taking the tougher defensive assignment.
Bridges had his moments, but got exposed when the game got physical, as it often does in the playoffs. Bridges got rattled.
I think we need a starter who is better equipped to handle the physicality of the playoffs. Its trending back towards more physical play.
I think the OG/Bridges tandem is fine as 3rd/4th options. Bridges has quirks but he has plusses too. I agree with need a tough / physical player added to the starting lineup. And we clearly need another ball handler to help Brunson with the full court playoff pressure.
I think Bridges could be a lot more in the second unit, with a more willing passer like Kolek. I think he could put up some scary numbers. We've seen the runs he goes on with JB on the bench.
We got far but how we did it didn't feel like a progression. Thinking back to our team that met the Spurs in the finals (1998?) -- there was a collective progression to that team where we came out every night and you knew what was coming - the only question was would we be good enough but you knew the team would play good offense and great D -- it was more a matter of lacking talent.
This team just shat the bed too often with poor decisions, sloppy ball handling and piss poor D.
I don't walk away feeling super clean about this group - something feels a bit yucky a bit off -- we never built to a crescendo it was even right up until tonight 1 step forward 1 step back. Not sure who to blame but it just wasn't a normal run where you keep building better play and execution.
In every sport great teams build and improve over the season and just get more defined and precise in how they play -- this squad you could never count on that and tonight was just another example of a turd dropped on court in Indy tonight. That was a LARGE TURD when it should have been something special.
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:Interesting words from Deuce … seems to echo much of the fans sentimentJavascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1929016086722138591?s=46&t=aZhwYE81hpWp3CdrvCUTow
Click here to view the TweetFor me, this is a good thing.
Deuce is motivated
No easy answers. I wonder if Thibs should stay. I wonder about Hart. Silver wants Giannis to go to San Antonio.
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KAT looks like he’s in pain every waking moment.
We were more successful than in 25 years but I really don't like the way we play - feels like we always make things harder than needed offensively.
KAT is too inconsistent defensively which breaks the whole defensive system that is supposed to be our strength - has to change if Thibs remains.
Thibs didn't change my perception that he's an extremely solid coach that doesn't possess the in-game adjustments needed to outcoach at higher levels.
We may be stuck for awhile having limited picks and enmeshment and excessive loyalty between Leon/Thibs/KAT/Brunson and the other Nova guys.
My Hopes for this offseason...
Leon tells Thibs he's on a shorter leash if he doesn't utilize his bench more and update the offense to the mid-2000's as this is 2025.
Mitch, Deuce, Shamet and Precious return next year as they seemed to step up despite some of them having limited roles/minutes.
While limited and injury prone at times - I would not part with Mitch or OG in any trades as they are essential in compensating around Brunson.
Despite our success I would be fine with moving on from KAT and either Bridges or Hart. I would even move Brunson in the right package for Giannis.
jskinny35 wrote:My takeaways from this season/tonight/playoffs...We were more successful than in 25 years but I really don't like the way we play - feels like we always make things harder than needed offensively.
KAT is too inconsistent defensively which breaks the whole defensive system that is supposed to be our strength - has to change if Thibs remains.
Thibs didn't change my perception that he's an extremely solid coach that doesn't possess the in-game adjustments needed to outcoach at higher levels.
We may be stuck for awhile having limited picks and enmeshment and excessive loyalty between Leon/Thibs/KAT/Brunson and the other Nova guys.
My Hopes for this offseason...
Leon tells Thibs he's on a shorter leash if he doesn't utilize his bench more and update the offense to the mid-2000's as this is 2025.
Mitch, Deuce, Shamet and Precious return next year as they seemed to step up despite some of them having limited roles/minutes.
While limited and injury prone at times - I would not part with Mitch or OG in any trades as they are essential in compensating around Brunson.
Despite our success I would be fine with moving on from KAT and either Bridges or Hart. I would even move Brunson in the right package for Giannis.
Nobody is moving Brunson and we are not getting Giannis or Durant. Giannis doesn’t want to be on the Knicks in my opinion too much pressure in big markets in nyc. Giannis is probably going to rockets or spurs if he gets traded the Knicks don’t have the assets and bucks want to rebuild. Durant rejected us twice he not coming here he made his decision to go to the nets, once you reject the Knicks couple times you usually don’t get third try ala LeBron.
houston20 wrote:jskinny35 wrote:My takeaways from this season/tonight/playoffs...We were more successful than in 25 years but I really don't like the way we play - feels like we always make things harder than needed offensively.
KAT is too inconsistent defensively which breaks the whole defensive system that is supposed to be our strength - has to change if Thibs remains.
Thibs didn't change my perception that he's an extremely solid coach that doesn't possess the in-game adjustments needed to outcoach at higher levels.
We may be stuck for awhile having limited picks and enmeshment and excessive loyalty between Leon/Thibs/KAT/Brunson and the other Nova guys.
My Hopes for this offseason...
Leon tells Thibs he's on a shorter leash if he doesn't utilize his bench more and update the offense to the mid-2000's as this is 2025.
Mitch, Deuce, Shamet and Precious return next year as they seemed to step up despite some of them having limited roles/minutes.
While limited and injury prone at times - I would not part with Mitch or OG in any trades as they are essential in compensating around Brunson.
Despite our success I would be fine with moving on from KAT and either Bridges or Hart. I would even move Brunson in the right package for Giannis.
Nobody is moving Brunson and we are not getting Giannis or Durant. Giannis doesn’t want to be on the Knicks in my opinion too much pressure in big markets in nyc. Giannis is probably going to rockets or spurs if he gets traded the Knicks don’t have the assets and bucks want to rebuild. Durant rejected us twice he not coming here he made his decision to go to the nets, once you reject the Knicks couple times you usually don’t get third try ala LeBron.
Agree it's doubtful we are willing/able to make any type of big move...and I realize Brunson will never be traded! I do think it's pretty clear by now that we can't keep both KAT and Brunson on the floor at the same time as it puts too much pressure on the other 3 that are compensating for their deficiencies. So you can't pay KAT at his salary to be a super sub and Bridges will need to be paid soon...so that's why I get back to moving KAT and Bridges as it may be a financial inevitability.
jskinny35 wrote:houston20 wrote:jskinny35 wrote:My takeaways from this season/tonight/playoffs...We were more successful than in 25 years but I really don't like the way we play - feels like we always make things harder than needed offensively.
KAT is too inconsistent defensively which breaks the whole defensive system that is supposed to be our strength - has to change if Thibs remains.
Thibs didn't change my perception that he's an extremely solid coach that doesn't possess the in-game adjustments needed to outcoach at higher levels.
We may be stuck for awhile having limited picks and enmeshment and excessive loyalty between Leon/Thibs/KAT/Brunson and the other Nova guys.
My Hopes for this offseason...
Leon tells Thibs he's on a shorter leash if he doesn't utilize his bench more and update the offense to the mid-2000's as this is 2025.
Mitch, Deuce, Shamet and Precious return next year as they seemed to step up despite some of them having limited roles/minutes.
While limited and injury prone at times - I would not part with Mitch or OG in any trades as they are essential in compensating around Brunson.
Despite our success I would be fine with moving on from KAT and either Bridges or Hart. I would even move Brunson in the right package for Giannis.
Nobody is moving Brunson and we are not getting Giannis or Durant. Giannis doesn’t want to be on the Knicks in my opinion too much pressure in big markets in nyc. Giannis is probably going to rockets or spurs if he gets traded the Knicks don’t have the assets and bucks want to rebuild. Durant rejected us twice he not coming here he made his decision to go to the nets, once you reject the Knicks couple times you usually don’t get third try ala LeBron.
Agree it's doubtful we are willing/able to make any type of big move...and I realize Brunson will never be traded! I do think it's pretty clear by now that we can't keep both KAT and Brunson on the floor at the same time as it puts too much pressure on the other 3 that are compensating for their deficiencies. So you can't pay KAT at his salary to be a super sub and Bridges will need to be paid soon...so that's why I get back to moving KAT and Bridges as it may be a financial inevitability.
I think what the most likely situation is Josh Hart gets traded for some depth I just don’t see them making any big moves. Its going be really doubtful that they trade Kat or bridges I think they bring this team back but datiet ,Kolek, hukporti will have bigger roles next year. I think the biggest mistake the Knicks did was not signing tj Warren and Moses Brown from the gleague because I thought those guys would have bigger impact on the bench. Has far has thibs situation goes either want him to hire Taylor Jenkins on his staff or if Mike Malone wants the Knicks head coaching job then give him the job.
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While that is true, the window can close at any moment with the wrong decisions.
And sorry, but I’m not on the Thibs bandwagon.
Gudris wrote:Knicks got lucky by beating Boston, Knicks are not ready to win it all. Brusnon is too small and Kat too slow
We beat Boston fair and square there was no luck about that.
Instead of using that as fuel to confirm their status as championship contenders, they slacked their way to another loss, both at home, where they proved somehow overwhelmed by the pressure.
From there, the bad Knicks trends of the season had proved to be here to stay this series. A solid win in Game 3 wasn’t replicated like they should’ve in Game 4. The coaching in the series from New York was seriously inconsistent.
Game 5 showed us finally what this team could do, but too little too late as the monster had been fed and only a perfect game would’ve stoped it. The Knicks proved incapable of a consistent effort from game to game, sometimes even from quarter to quarter.
They lost as the talented but maddeningly inconsistent team they were throughout the whole season. I really expected them to finally come together as a team and this loss disappointingly proves they aren’t that close to it, but they could get there.
The thing is, I’m not confident this team will make the right decisions to improve and reach the NBA Finals next season. Something was definitely wrong on the coaching staff, but this run might stop changes from being made.
In the players front, while the Towns trade was heavily maligned and his defense is a cause for concern, I think the Mikal trade was the move too much we made. Kidd all you want about the “high schoolers” who wouldn’t have made a difference, but actually two of those could net you a guy like Walker Kessler, who would be a significant contributor to this defense. And either Deuce takes the step forward we expected from him but didn’t really get, or we need a scorer off the bench. Kolek and Huk need to be prioritized as pieces next season. That means having a coaching staff willing to develop AND use them.
Overall, I’m more disappointed than hopeful. Why? Because this team seems mostly built, while still not being the most ideal mix. Still the impression if that a new direction could improve the direction and consistency, but again, I wonder if the right decision are made or not.