I have 3 (obvious) takes on Thibs firing...
Thibs rigidity and unwillingness to recognize player data (eg Mitch's +/- was off charts and still played KAT at times when defense was essential)
Thibs overplaying starters and not utilizing the bench. A complaint for years that was reinforced when he finally went to bench in game 5
Knicks preferring to keep KAT and wanting either more offensive creativity, and/or needing to shift defensive schemes which Thibs wouldn't/couldn't do
DLeethal wrote:I will forever love Thibs for dragging us out of the gutter but I can understand the move. This leads to believe they want to run it back and maximize Towns but who knows at this point.
Give credit to Thibs but personnel wise we were heading in the right direction before he even got here. Drafted Mitch, RJ, IQ, Obi was a miss but still a useful player. Signed Randle. Thibs did a great job but I think had Mike Miller stayed on we probably still make the playoffs 2021 season. Kenny Atkinson also would have gotten the same results he killed it in Cleveland this year.
its crazy b/c we beat BOS and thats what this team was built to do. If we had lost to BOS, there's no one that could have said we should have won.
FWIW Malone and Budenholzer have each won championships without dream teams. Actually doing it is always worth something
Budenholzer obviously had all world Giannis but if you're really honest about it there wasn't even a big two, let alone a big three. He had lots of really good players but only one all NBA as far as I recall. He was also successful in Atlanta with completely different style of play, and again FWIW has those SAS roots where they often seem a step ahead of the competition
Malone also had all world Joker. But next best player was Murray. Obviously a lot to like but we're not talking Warriors in their prime or Heat with Lebron.
They should both be serious, respectable candidates.
I have a tough time imagining Leon rolls the dice with J.Bryant. Thought he was great here, but they'd have balls of steel firing Thibs after ECF to give it to Bryant
Again just have to imagine Leon liked his KAT acquisition more than Thibs did, and must have felt that was the best way forward. E.g., trying to get Giannis or KD unless it's straight up just exacerbates a depth problem if Knicks have to throw in other talent.
Really feel for Thibs though.
I've always liked Bud, wanted him here before we got Thibs. but I didnt follow what went wrong in MIL with him.
martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:I think this means that Rose has someone in mind who could’ve been hired by Phoenix before they had a chance.
Bryant coming home?!
Make it so. I thought he was heir apparent until he left
Chandler wrote:FWIW Malone and Budenholzer have each won championships without dream teams. Actually doing it is always worth somethingBudenholzer obviously had all world Giannis but if you're really honest about it there wasn't even a big two, let alone a big three. He had lots of really good players but only one all NBA as far as I recall. He was also successful in Atlanta with completely different style of play, and again FWIW has this SAS roots where they often seem a step ahead of the competition
Malone also had all work Joker. But next best player was Murray. Obviously a lot to like but we're not talking Warriors in their prime or Heat with Lebron.
They should both be serious, respectable candidates.
I have a tough time imagining Leon rolls the dice with J.Bryant. Thought he was great here, but they's have balls of steel firing Thibs after ECF to give it to Bryant
Again just have to imagine Leon liked his KAT acquisition more than Thibs did, and must have felt that was the best way forward. E.g., trying to get Giannis or KD unless it's straight up just exacerbates a depth problem if Knicks have to throw in other talent.
Really feel for Thibs though.
Pure speculation
Maybe there was an exit interview/meeting with Thibs and he expressed concern that KAT can't play defense at the championship level... they just acquired him and felt it was Thibs job to teach him and they weren't going to move him?
I hate that it had to come to this but it had to be done. People keep thinking I had something personal against him. It's never personal to me with sports. He made way too many fundamental mistakes. The final nail in the coffin must have been when the very bench is never played all season was the only reason we lasted as long as we did vs the Pacers. The fact he got KAT the best 5 out big in league history and NEVER even gave 5 out a chance is a fireable offense. He made so many mistakes that should not happen. There was no other way this could play out. How do you go the whole season starting our worst lineup and never try anything else until the ECF???
MaTT4281 wrote:This terrifies me...Damn.
Gotta bad feeling this is the precursor of a KAT for KD swap. Yuck.
Make use of your bench. THE END
fishmike wrote:DLeethal wrote:I will forever love Thibs for dragging us out of the gutter but I can understand the move. This leads to believe they want to run it back and maximize Towns but who knows at this point.
who are they gonna get that's a better fit than Thibs? Malone? Atkinson was everyone's darling and was sent packing in embarrassing fashion.
My assumption is they have their eye on someone we probably aren’t thinking much about and are trying to find their Kerr or Nick Nurse. This FO is legit I think they probably have intel on some assistants that are ready to become next big time coach. Maybe Chris Quinn.
jskinny35 wrote:Chandler wrote:FWIW Malone and Budenholzer have each won championships without dream teams. Actually doing it is always worth somethingBudenholzer obviously had all world Giannis but if you're really honest about it there wasn't even a big two, let alone a big three. He had lots of really good players but only one all NBA as far as I recall. He was also successful in Atlanta with completely different style of play, and again FWIW has this SAS roots where they often seem a step ahead of the competition
Malone also had all work Joker. But next best player was Murray. Obviously a lot to like but we're not talking Warriors in their prime or Heat with Lebron.
They should both be serious, respectable candidates.
I have a tough time imagining Leon rolls the dice with J.Bryant. Thought he was great here, but they's have balls of steel firing Thibs after ECF to give it to Bryant
Again just have to imagine Leon liked his KAT acquisition more than Thibs did, and must have felt that was the best way forward. E.g., trying to get Giannis or KD unless it's straight up just exacerbates a depth problem if Knicks have to throw in other talent.
Really feel for Thibs though.
Pure speculation
Maybe there was an exit interview/meeting with Thibs and he expressed concern that KAT can't play defense at the championship level... they just acquired him and felt it was Thibs job to teach him and they weren't going to move him?
I hope thats not the case, because KAT's defense IS a big problem. So I hope we didnt merely pick KAT over Thibs.
Philc1 wrote:DLeethal wrote:I will forever love Thibs for dragging us out of the gutter but I can understand the move. This leads to believe they want to run it back and maximize Towns but who knows at this point.
Give credit to Thibs but personnel wise we were heading in the right direction before he even got here. Drafted Mitch, RJ, IQ, Obi was a miss but still a useful player. Signed Randle. Thibs did a great job but I think had Mike Miller stayed on we probably still make the playoffs 2021 season. Kenny Atkinson also would have gotten the same results he killed it in Cleveland this year.
Thibs had us a 4 seed with a table scrap lineup. He squeezed blood from a stone for a few years and brought respectability and culture back here. But I think it’s probably time for an innovative coach.
Philc1 wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:This terrifies me...Damn.
Gotta bad feeling this is the precursor of a KAT for KD swap. Yuck.
Why would you think that? Thibs sealed his own fate.
As usual I suck at this. Totally shocked at this one.
Leon obviously has his reasons.
I'm going Jay Wright here.
Just guessing.
Look, reality is watching this team all season it was just hard. Maybe on exit interviews the players are frustrated.
I think KAT had a good year but it looked really hard at times.
Nalod trusts Leon. For all we know its Rick Brunson? LOL!!!
Wait, would Leon trade JB? Sell high? He did take that discount? Leon ice cold personified.
Its JB's team. Leon understands how this shit works. Maybe the players wanted this.
I will always appreciate what thibs did. Best coach since JVG. He had a great 5-year run. And all I’ll say is they better get this next hire right. It’s finals or bust.
I don’t think this FO is going to just go with the guy that has the best resume like Bud or Malone. I think they are likely looking for the next great coach off someone’s bench right now.
