GustavBahler wrote:VDesai wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:I think you can safely say for about half to 60% of the playoffs the Knicks looked championship quality on D and not so much the other games. Regular season was a slog defensively for most of the year. It seemed like we were getting closer.I think given so much of the issues were communication and that KAT didn't truly have an offseason with the team, you could have made a pretty strong argument to give Thibs another full offseason with this roster to try and get it in order. Enough positive signs were there.
Offense was another story- offense looked ugly all year, yet finished in the top 10 ALL time in offensive rating. So it was ugly, but possibly effective enough? I think the defensive issues were much worse. That said, turnovers killed us vs. Indy - which is largely b/c Thibs ugly ball control offense relies on low turnovers. We never handled the press effectively. He didn't fix that.
My point is I don't think this is a major makeover. There must have been chemsistry issues in the locker room or between the coaching staff and front office that may have been a large cause. Think in the absence of that, there was enough evidence in the results over the year and most recently to stay patient.
I don't think we ever looked championship level on D -- not even close. How could we with Jalen/Kat/Josh playing close to 40 a night.
Then how did we beat Boston? We shut down Boston for long stretches and several games.
Not having KP chip in on both ends like he did last year was a factor.
KP being done was maybe reason #11 why we beat the Celtics. They seemed to take the series for granted and were looking past the 2nd round they mentally bought the narrative that they were soooo much better than the Knicks because of the regular season. And then the Knicks punched them in the mouth game 1.
Philc1 wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:I think you can safely say for about half to 60% of the playoffs the Knicks looked championship quality on D and not so much the other games. Regular season was a slog defensively for most of the year. It seemed like we were getting closer.I think given so much of the issues were communication and that KAT didn't truly have an offseason with the team, you could have made a pretty strong argument to give Thibs another full offseason with this roster to try and get it in order. Enough positive signs were there.
Offense was another story- offense looked ugly all year, yet finished in the top 10 ALL time in offensive rating. So it was ugly, but possibly effective enough? I think the defensive issues were much worse. That said, turnovers killed us vs. Indy - which is largely b/c Thibs ugly ball control offense relies on low turnovers. We never handled the press effectively. He didn't fix that.
My point is I don't think this is a major makeover. There must have been chemsistry issues in the locker room or between the coaching staff and front office that may have been a large cause. Think in the absence of that, there was enough evidence in the results over the year and most recently to stay patient.
I don't think we ever looked championship level on D -- not even close. How could we with Jalen/Kat/Josh playing close to 40 a night.
When Mitch was in the floor in the playoffs with OG and Mikal we had an excellent defensive lineup just ask Tatum.
Which is exactly the point I was making here. We at times in the playoffs were able to employ a championship level of defense. Mitch didnt play all year and took time to round into form. Knicks beat the Celtics because they gave them a different look than they did all year. However this grouping had relatively few game reps and could not do it consistently in the playoffs.
Question UK fam, who is responsible for the development of McBride?
Thibs?
Bryant?
G-league coach?
McBride?
PassTheBall wrote:Question UK fam, who is responsible for the development of McBride?Thibs?
Bryant?
G-league coach?
McBride?
All the above. There was a plan when we drafted him and it executed.
Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:VDesai wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:I think you can safely say for about half to 60% of the playoffs the Knicks looked championship quality on D and not so much the other games. Regular season was a slog defensively for most of the year. It seemed like we were getting closer.I think given so much of the issues were communication and that KAT didn't truly have an offseason with the team, you could have made a pretty strong argument to give Thibs another full offseason with this roster to try and get it in order. Enough positive signs were there.
Offense was another story- offense looked ugly all year, yet finished in the top 10 ALL time in offensive rating. So it was ugly, but possibly effective enough? I think the defensive issues were much worse. That said, turnovers killed us vs. Indy - which is largely b/c Thibs ugly ball control offense relies on low turnovers. We never handled the press effectively. He didn't fix that.
My point is I don't think this is a major makeover. There must have been chemsistry issues in the locker room or between the coaching staff and front office that may have been a large cause. Think in the absence of that, there was enough evidence in the results over the year and most recently to stay patient.
I don't think we ever looked championship level on D -- not even close. How could we with Jalen/Kat/Josh playing close to 40 a night.
Then how did we beat Boston? We shut down Boston for long stretches and several games.
Not having KP chip in on both ends like he did last year was a factor.
KP being done was maybe reason #11 why we beat the Celtics. They seemed to take the series for granted and were looking past the 2nd round they mentally bought the narrative that they were soooo much better than the Knicks because of the regular season. And then the Knicks punched them in the mouth game 1.
PhilC, the Celtic “Mentalist”……..
Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:VDesai wrote:LivingLegend wrote:VDesai wrote:I think you can safely say for about half to 60% of the playoffs the Knicks looked championship quality on D and not so much the other games. Regular season was a slog defensively for most of the year. It seemed like we were getting closer.I think given so much of the issues were communication and that KAT didn't truly have an offseason with the team, you could have made a pretty strong argument to give Thibs another full offseason with this roster to try and get it in order. Enough positive signs were there.
Offense was another story- offense looked ugly all year, yet finished in the top 10 ALL time in offensive rating. So it was ugly, but possibly effective enough? I think the defensive issues were much worse. That said, turnovers killed us vs. Indy - which is largely b/c Thibs ugly ball control offense relies on low turnovers. We never handled the press effectively. He didn't fix that.
My point is I don't think this is a major makeover. There must have been chemsistry issues in the locker room or between the coaching staff and front office that may have been a large cause. Think in the absence of that, there was enough evidence in the results over the year and most recently to stay patient.
I don't think we ever looked championship level on D -- not even close. How could we with Jalen/Kat/Josh playing close to 40 a night.
Then how did we beat Boston? We shut down Boston for long stretches and several games.
Not having KP chip in on both ends like he did last year was a factor.
KP being done was maybe reason #11 why we beat the Celtics. They seemed to take the series for granted and were looking past the 2nd round they mentally bought the narrative that they were soooo much better than the Knicks because of the regular season. And then the Knicks punched them in the mouth game 1.
Disagree, played a big part in last year's playoffs with his rim protection and 3pt shooting. He was a no show in the playoffs this year because he was sick. One of the reasons they had to resort to "hack a Mitch". Boston had no counter.
Rose getting everyone paid.
The media mocked their strategy, but this is just causing a lot of friction amongst teams and their managers.
We may need a 1 year bridge coach, but someone good should shake out in the next yr.
PassTheBall wrote:Question UK fam, who is responsible for the development of McBride?Thibs?
Bryant?
G-league coach?
McBride?
I think Miles was a Thibs guy from the start and Thibs believed in him --- my assumption was that Thibs gave Deuce a few directives 1) extend your range 2) get more comfortable / aggressive with the ball and 3) defend like an animal
Thibs gets the credit IMO.
In regard to Deuce -- he has a nice little contract but as a Top 8 rotation piece he leaves much to be desired and his up/down playoff performance supports that.
His shot development has been superb, his confidence with the ball has grown considerably but his D has dropped off (can't contain) and you just don't know if you are going to get 3 points or 13 from him.
IMO Rose is treating the Knicks job as the best job opening in years and always baiting elite coaches to ask out so they can get the job. Wouldn't be surprised if you see this tactic copied by other teams in the future tbh.
Funny how Knick fans thought Thibs was not good enough to win a chip yet they want…
Donavan, whose NBA success has been what exactly?
Kidd, Finch, Snyder , Udoka, who are all under contract and denied permission to engage. (But we can get into their shortcomings as well).
Bryant, who has never been a HC
Rick Brunson?
And of course our top two candidates:
Brown: was fired by Cavs, Lakers and Kings.
Could not win one with LBJ. Fired after six games into second LA season. Could not win one with Kobe? Got fired mid season from a team that declined from year prior.
Has same exact philosophy as the guy you just fired.
Jenkins: fired mid season by Memphis (Only HC experience) for failing to develop a team with Ja Morant within 6 years.
Playoff success?
Thibs: Best Knicks result in 25 years. Brought Knicks to top respectability.
martin wrote:
Damn, we missed a guy who has yet to do anything in the NBA.
Career .500 NBA coach.
Guess it’s different when you don’t have every top recruit in Florida/South East to help you out.
Man, Leon, Wes, and Brock Aller move different. It seems to me that this coaching search is not only about finding a coach but an extended information and relationship gathering opportunity too.
They do this with their roster too via trade ideas during season, getting info both ways from and to other organizations.
Billy 2 ncaa chips and coached young thunder to finals.
Nalod wrote:Billy 2 ncaa chips and coached young thunder to finals.
Conference finals. Lost after being up 3-1. So collapsed.
Young OKC team? Durant, Westbrook, Adams, Ibaka and defensive player of the year Roberson.
Never went past first round thereafter.
Can see Knick fans putting up with losing a series up 3-1 and never getting past the first round.
Let’s not talk about what he has done in Chicago since 2020.
HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:Billy 2 ncaa chips and coached young thunder to finals.
Conference finals. Lost after being up 3-1. So collapsed.
Young OKC team? Durant, Westbrook, Adams, Ibaka and defensive player of the year Roberson.
Never went past first round thereafter.
Can see Knick fans putting up with losing a series up 3-1 and never getting past the first round.
Let’s not talk about what he has done in Chicago since 2020.
We just wanted permission to talk to him.
Who did Thunder lose to? WHo was out whest when they did not make it past. We all blamed Westbrook?
Im not here to say we should hire him. Just talk man, just talk.
Nalod wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:Billy 2 ncaa chips and coached young thunder to finals.
Conference finals. Lost after being up 3-1. So collapsed.
Young OKC team? Durant, Westbrook, Adams, Ibaka and defensive player of the year Roberson.
Never went past first round thereafter.
Can see Knick fans putting up with losing a series up 3-1 and never getting past the first round.
Let’s not talk about what he has done in Chicago since 2020.
We just wanted permission to talk to him.
Who did Thunder lose to? WHo was out whest when they did not make it past. We all blamed Westbrook?
Im not here to say we should hire him. Just talk man, just talk.
Agree it’s just talk.
Does it really matter who they lost to? Or the fact he coached a team that was up on a team 3-1 and historically choked?
Merely stated that Donavan has yet to prove he can win a chip in the NBA. Which was, allegedly, the reason they fired Thibs. And that coaches have an advantage in college due to recruiting. Not saying he is a bad coach. But not exactly a NBA chip veteran.
Feel Knicks are seeing, like I predicted at the beginning of playoffs when some asked who we would rather play in the playoffs. That the Pacers are a very very good team. They were finally healthy and playing extremely well in the last two months of the season. We were one bad loss from taking them to a seventh game at home. Some, including Knicks FO are finally realizing how good they truly are. By what they are showing in the finals. Proving that maybe Thibs was not the problem but rather the Pacers level of talent and depth. Which for me, is on Rose more than it is on Thibs.
IMO, Rose did what a lot of FO guys have done in the past. Found someone else to take the blame.
HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:Billy 2 ncaa chips and coached young thunder to finals.
Conference finals. Lost after being up 3-1. So collapsed.
Young OKC team? Durant, Westbrook, Adams, Ibaka and defensive player of the year Roberson.
Never went past first round thereafter.
Can see Knick fans putting up with losing a series up 3-1 and never getting past the first round.
Let’s not talk about what he has done in Chicago since 2020.
We just wanted permission to talk to him.
Who did Thunder lose to? WHo was out whest when they did not make it past. We all blamed Westbrook?
Im not here to say we should hire him. Just talk man, just talk.
Agree it’s just talk.
Does it really matter who they lost to? Or the fact he coached a team that was up on a team 3-1 and historically choked?
Merely stated that Donavan has yet to prove he can win a chip in the NBA. Which was, allegedly, the reason they fired Thibs. And that coaches have an advantage in college due to recruiting. Not saying he is a bad coach. But not exactly a NBA chip veteran.
Feel Knicks are seeing, like I predicted at the beginning of playoffs when some asked who we would rather play in the playoffs. That the Pacers are a very very good team. They were finally healthy and playing extremely well in the last two months of the season. We were one bad loss from taking them to a seventh game at home. Some, including Knicks FO are finally realizing how good they truly are. By what they are showing in the finals. Proving that maybe Thibs was not the problem but rather the Pacers level of talent and depth. Which for me, is on Rose more than it is on Thibs.
IMO, Rose did what a lot of FO guys have done in the past. Found someone else to take the blame.
I don't think Knicks fired him based on just losing to Pacers. FO thought depite beating the Celtiics the team struggled to thrive.
Thrive......
As for Billy, or any other coach they have their warts. Each succeeded in certain circumstances and perhaps failed with other specific circumstances. The current employed ones that FO inquired about not excluded. Billy's team was up 3-1 and that indicts him forever? Im sorry, who were they playing? What happened in that series that got turned around? Was it coaching? Injuries? Other team get it players back? IM not going that deep into this convo so color me lazy on this one.
I know bulls ownership is kind of cheap and given they are not really going anywhere soon might be happy to change coach but don't want to pay Billy, so if that's the case perhaps let him talk and interview.
Lauri, Zach, Caruso, Ball, Giddey. Bulls have been snakebit over the last few years when it comes to long term injuries to key players. I'd give Donovan an "incomplete" when it comes to his time in Chicago.
Amazing how nonstop media laughing at the Knicks for not hiring a coach within 5 minutes of firing Thibs but no Halliburton, no Tatum and Giannis probably getting traded out of the eastern conference to the spurs in the offseason. Pistons are suddenly the second best team in the East after the Knicks next season
