DLeethal wrote:Leon placing the target firmly on his back now if next season doesn’t go well so I respect him for that. Keeping Thibs would have been the easy route and allowed him to keep a scapegoat in his back pocket if things didn’t go well. He’s truly going for it and putting his neck on the line.
great point, firing Thibs was a card he could have waited to use later on.
but also, they probably have someone in mind and couldn't risk them going elsewhere.
Curious why Bryant left last year? Did he and Thibs not see eye to eye?
Did Thibs not endorse him for another gig? Did Johnny stab him in back?
I have to say if Dolan wants this then its dumb. If Leon/Rosas then I trust them.
Maybe Leon wanted some new blood for assistants and Thibs was loyal to them first and foremost?
There is always more than a reaction to the last series.
Just looked like Thibs was sending KAT to his death the way he got pummeled. Kat needs more easy buckets.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:knickslions wrote:Leon Rose and Jay Wright are good friends
College coaches without NBA experience, too much of a risk I'd guess
That's a lot of hurdles to cross just to adapt to a different league with a team pointing towards ECF+
What if the coach is Jay Wright? You'd have to be a little intrigued.
Has there been any college coach that had an entry like this scenario? I'd get bringing in Brad Stevens when you have a long ramp but not with Championship on the line?
Me personally I'm most intrigued by Jay Wright.
Guy is slick like Pat Riley but also tough/hardnosed/savvy like Pat Riley.
Not sure if he has any interest but I'd be most intrigued by him #1 and Hurley #2.
Johnny Bryant would be underwhelming to me particularly given Cavs and their system just got washed by same Pacers.
Bryant could be great I don't know and his lack of head coach experience is a worry.
OH - Taylor Jenkins is another guy always liked how he had Memphis playing and using sometimes 10 deep rotation.
Chandler wrote:DLeethal wrote:VDesai wrote:I can understand, but still makes me feel terrible. Thibs rescued the team from oblivion. 5 yrs, 4 playoff appearances. Team was less than its parts this year, but hard to penalize him for only a really good year when it could have been great. Imagine that's how your job goes...thats why I feel terrible about it.Not an obvious list of better coaches. Don't need a player's caddy. To exceed Thibs you need someone with strategic vision, analytical brilliance....who is that?
I agree with this which is why I think they have intel on the next big time coach from someone’s bench and not just going the simpleton route with Bud or Malone.
Was Thibs the simpleton route? I for one thought he would be a dud when he was hired and was rooting for Atkinson. Atkinson went sideways with the Nets; Thibs did great things here. I was seriously wrong on that
I was also seriously wrong with Randle but that's a separate issue
I'm not going to be surprised if they go with Malone or Bud, but they won't be hired based on their name or resume. They will be hired because of a serious vetting where they ask what they would do and why and go from there.
Atkinson was supposed to be someone with a vision etc but when he was with the Nets that meant race up the court and take first 3 points available. that didn't last long even if the math seemed to make sense. And then he had a great year w Cavs yet got smoked by Pacers
In a way he was but in other ways he wasn’t. On paper he was the simpleton route. A hard nosed guy who could install a culture. But no one else was touching him with a 10 foot pole at the time so it was a ballsy hire.
Knicksfan wrote:nycericanguy wrote:its crazy b/c we beat BOS and thats what this team was built to do. If we had lost to BOS, there's no one that could have said we should have won.
This team wasn’t just built to beat Boston. We know the ultimate goal is that elusive championship to cement everyone’s legacies as the ones to bring it to NY!
The thing is, Thibs wasn’t fired for not coming out of the ECF. I think they knew the qualities they wanted out of their coach and gave Thibs a chance to prove he was up to the task, probably coming up short in their eyes because of his old school tendencies. They know he’s good but the season showed them he couldn’t really deal with this roster as they hoped.
BOS was the defending champs and the east had to go through them.
I dont think we envisioned being beat by IND, we almost went up 3-0 on IND last year until OG got hurt and the injuries piled up. So I think you had to be pretty confident that we only lost that series because of injuries.
Acquring OG and Mikal was clearly to guard Tatum and Brown. and acquiring KAT I think was absolutely a response to BOS's 5 out offense.
and it worked, but then we kind of built a team that was ill suited to guard IND.
I feel like the myth of Johnny Bryant may be greater than what he is. He's a player's coach right? Development guy?
I really don't think that's what we need- we need an outside the box strategic thinker. Within the context of mainstream basketball - Tom Thibs is as prepared, knowledgeable and able to communicate "inside the box." If you're gonna beat a Thibs you need a strategic thinker that's on the innovative side of the game...
Nalod wrote:Curious why Bryant left last year? Did he and Thibs not see eye to eye?
Did Thibs not endorse him for another gig? Did Johnny stab him in back? I have to say if Dolan wants this then its dumb. If Leon/Rosas then I trust them.
Maybe Leon wanted some new blood for assistants and Thibs was loyal to them first and foremost?
There is always more than a reaction to the last series.
Just looked like Thibs was sending KAT to his death the way he got pummeled. Kat needs more easy buckets.
He loves Donovan Mitchell and they had a special bond. I think Bryant was here in part to lure Mitchell. When that didn't happen he decided to join him when Cleveland got a new coach.
DLeethal wrote:fishmike wrote:VDesai wrote:So who are the best coaches:Malone
Budenholzer
Taylor Jenkins
James Borrego
Mike Brown
Frank Vogel
2 of those guys have titles. Does anyone firmly believe that there's a mind on that list that's better than Thibs, thats more creative or better at implementing that can coax another 2 series wins out of this team?
its a shocking business call. You are paying him for 3 years and just got you to game 6 of the conference finals. Does the FO think this is a 70 win team? Just wild. Maybe it's a personality thing. I would think they have a plan, but I have been a Knick fan far to long to assume logic is in the works hereI expect a finals team next year. Go get it Leon
I think they looked at context and didn’t blindly go by end result.
bold strategy cotton... lets see how it pays off.
Thing is I would expect the team to get better next year under Thibs. Now it HAS to. Maybe they got the best 5 years they were gonna get.
Rick Carlisle got fired the year before the Pistons won a title. Larry Brown coached that team. Im sure this will be just like that
Knicksfan wrote:nycericanguy wrote:its crazy b/c we beat BOS and thats what this team was built to do. If we had lost to BOS, there's no one that could have said we should have won.
This team wasn’t just built to beat Boston. We know the ultimate goal is that elusive championship to cement everyone’s legacies as the ones to bring it to NY!
The thing is, Thibs wasn’t fired for not coming out of the ECF. I think they knew the qualities they wanted out of their coach and gave Thibs a chance to prove he was up to the task, probably coming up short in their eyes because of his old school tendencies. They know he’s good but the season showed them he couldn’t really deal with this roster as they hoped.
I've always said that I felt the time would come when the talent on the roster would outgrow Thibs.im not sure I believe the roster reached that point, but there was enough anecdotal and visual evidence to push the narrative that the time had come. Plus, he is damn near 70. It would've been tough for him to finish up that extension.
fishmike wrote:VDesai wrote:So who are the best coaches:Malone
Budenholzer
Taylor Jenkins
James Borrego
Mike Brown
Frank Vogel
2 of those guys have titles. Does anyone firmly believe that there's a mind on that list that's better than Thibs, thats more creative or better at implementing that can coax another 2 series wins out of this team?
its a shocking business call. You are paying him for 3 years and just got you to game 6 of the conference finals. Does the FO think this is a 70 win team? Just wild. Maybe it's a personality thing. I would think they have a plan, but I have been a Knick fan far to long to assume logic is in the works hereI expect a finals team next year. Go get it Leon
Yes making this move lays down the gauntlet that this is finals or best next year and trophy or bust within 3 years. If it doesn't happen than these were the wrong moves.
I’m wondering if Thibs will eventually join the front office
Clean wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats why you dont lock the Thibs thread.Much respect to Thibs for making the Knicks respectable again. But it shouldnt take being 0-2 in the ECF to start trying out new lineups, rotations. It was a sign of desperation, and Leon probably didnt like it.
Speaking of Leon, at some point Dolan would start wondering if Leon was right for the job, if it was another season of overplaying the starters, not developing the bench.
TBH Im glad. We need a new voice in the locker room. Apparently there was a lot of discord in the locker room which doesnt reflect well on the coach.
The fire thibs thread was locked? I never even noticed. I stopped visiting it as much as I used to. It always shocked me how posters never noticed just how many fundamental mistakes thibs made. When confronted with those mistakes in press conferences he would make up some BS that does not make sense to deflect.
This quote always stuck out to me.
I locked it after we beat Boston. My thought was a new "Fire Thibs 2.0" would occur as there would be new reasons going forward if any. Not trying to control editorial content.
It was locked perhaps a really short time. I could not imagine after beating boston there this is possible.
This really is like 1999! Then Earnie got fired!!!
fishmike wrote:DLeethal wrote:fishmike wrote:VDesai wrote:So who are the best coaches:Malone
Budenholzer
Taylor Jenkins
James Borrego
Mike Brown
Frank Vogel
2 of those guys have titles. Does anyone firmly believe that there's a mind on that list that's better than Thibs, thats more creative or better at implementing that can coax another 2 series wins out of this team?
its a shocking business call. You are paying him for 3 years and just got you to game 6 of the conference finals. Does the FO think this is a 70 win team? Just wild. Maybe it's a personality thing. I would think they have a plan, but I have been a Knick fan far to long to assume logic is in the works hereI expect a finals team next year. Go get it Leon
I think they looked at context and didn’t blindly go by end result.
bold strategy cotton... lets see how it pays off.Thing is I would expect the team to get better next year under Thibs. Now it HAS to. Maybe they got the best 5 years they were gonna get.
Rick Carlisle got fired the year before the Pistons won a title. Larry Brown coached that team. Im sure this will be just like that
Mark Jackson built the Dubs up from the bottom and got fired for Kerr who presided over a dynasty. Dwayne Casey won COY and got fired that same season for Nick Nurse who won a chip next year. This has happened in the past.
Thibs has meant stability the last half decade. We had one down year (the Kemba year) but otherwise improved each season.
Maybe I shouldn't be so shocked. I always fall back to the fact that he hadn't lost the team, but I guess what I meant is more that he hadn't lost Brunson. Mikal did call out Thibs a couple times on playing the bench and the infamous layup lines. Deuce just had a quote on a lot of things during the year getting exposed on playoffs.
Well, maybe that makes the Donte return smoother...
LivingLegend wrote:Me personally I'm most intrigued by Jay Wright.Guy is slick like Pat Riley but also tough/hardnosed/savvy like Pat Riley.
Not sure if he has any interest but I'd be most intrigued by him #1 and Hurley #2.
Johnny Bryant would be underwhelming to me particularly given Cavs and their system just got washed by same Pacers.
Bryant could be great I don't know and his lack of head coach experience is a worry.
OH - Taylor Jenkins is another guy always liked how he had Memphis playing and using sometimes 10 deep rotation.
There's a lot I like about Jenkins but I don't know how he would do with this roster
he had a lot of athletes flying all over the place.
Surprised but not surprised. I clearly have been toeing the line on what it would take to move on from Thibs but clearly thought he bought himself another year.
My underdog is Johnnie Bryant.
My lead candidate is Mike Budenholzer.
My also ran is Mike Malone.
My dark horse is Dan Hurley.
With the coaching change I would argue that no one is safe, but there isn't a ton of room to make trades to change personnel this season.
In regard to Malone and Malone being another Thibs.
I live in Denver and there is truth there - he's an old school, hard headed, tough SOB.
Two things though in his favor....
- he got thru to Joker who got in GREAT shape & improved defensively after some tubby early years (something to think about with Kat)
- he allowed &/or forced Joker/Murray to run 2 man game over and over and over (something we totally negated with Jalen/Kat this year)
Wouldn't be my first choice.
