Knicks · Maciej Lampe and Marbles.......... (page 1)
The pick:
June 26, 2002: Traded by the Denver Nuggets (as a future 2003 2nd round draft pick) with Antonio McDyess and Frank Williams to the New York Knicks for Marcus Camby, Nenê and Mark Jackson.
(a very Dolanesque Starphuch. Camby was often injured, Jax was 36 year old, Frank did not pan out, and Nene could have been Amare!!)
June 26, 2003: Drafted by the New York Knicks in the 2nd round (30th pick) of the 2003 NBA Draft.
Then when Isiah ruled the Kingdom...........
January 5, 2004: Traded by the New York Knicks with Howard Eisley, Antonio McDyess, Milos Vujanic, Charlie Ward, a 2004 1st round draft pick (Kirk Snyder was later selected) and a 2010 1st round draft pick (Gordon Hayward was later selected) to the Phoenix Suns for Anfernee Hardaway, Stephon Marbury and Cezary Trybański.
In the "woulda-coulda" look back obvoiusly one can reconstruct without context were we draft Amare and Gordan Haywood if we don't do those trades. That might be a stretch.
Marbury to his credit was coming off a great year. Strange he only made two allstar games and had risen to All NBA 3rd team. None as a knick.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Undeniable talent. crazy to think that at age 25 and the center of it all on broadway with the stage he craved he would have buckled as he did.
Thank goodness Dolan stepped back from the team. His finger prints were all over this team for years.
Why bring up Lampe? I think we were so starved for a rookie and hope we banked a lot of hope on him. Him and Milos at the the time. Long before there was Rokas, there was Lampe an Milo's!
June 26, 2002: Traded by the Denver Nuggets (as a future 2003 2nd round draft pick) with Antonio McDyess and Frank Williams to the New York Knicks for Marcus Camby, Nenê and Mark Jackson.
Outside of losing in the finals to Houston, this was one of the saddest days in the Knicks franchise in my lifetime....there may be posts from back then of me losing my mind.
Stars get traded for so much more these days. Even flawed ones like Marbury if they are young enough.
gradyandrew wrote:I think Isaiah has said when he made the trade, he was expecting him and Allan Houston would be the best backcourt in the league. Sadly Allan's knees just never healed properly.
Nor did Marbury's brain.
nycericanguy wrote:always thought the Marbury trade was a bad one, but looking back , getting a 25 year old star PG for just 2 firsts was kind of a steal.Stars get traded for so much more these days. Even flawed ones like Marbury if they are young enough.
But Marbury was a flawed star having issues everywhere. In Minny he let his ego get the best of him. In Jersey, "all alone".....and PHX they were so happy to rid themselves of him. Your not wrong about the price and pehraps the potential with Allan. Isiah thought he could mentor the kid given his leadership chops from his playing days.
Marbury really never gave off the leadership vibe.
Nalod wrote:nycericanguy wrote:always thought the Marbury trade was a bad one, but looking back , getting a 25 year old star PG for just 2 firsts was kind of a steal.Stars get traded for so much more these days. Even flawed ones like Marbury if they are young enough.
But Marbury was a flawed star having issues everywhere. In Minny he let his ego get the best of him. In Jersey, "all alone".....and PHX they were so happy to rid themselves of him. Your not wrong about the price and pehraps the potential with Allan. Isiah thought he could mentor the kid given his leadership chops from his playing days.
Marbury really never gave off the leadership vibe.
Now that we are 20+ years away from the trade and way better understanding. I can say that roster construction was the biggest hurdle. Marbury was one of the best PNR and penetrating PGs in the league. He was a solid shooter, but that wasn't his real strength. Isiah basically did minimal to put Marbury in a position of strength on the court. Isiah knew how to aquire talent. But Isiah didn't know how to properly construct a team that fit together.
A dynamic that may have changed the Knicks fortune would have been if Rasheed Wallace got his way and made his way to the Knicks. As he was willing to sign for the mid level at the time and told teams not to trade for him as he wouldn't resign with them. Detroit made a play anyway and won the chip and the rest is history. Rasheed was a perfect personality and player to fit Marbury's game and fill the Knicks needs as Marbury's go to front court option and enforcer.
As well as what was stated before, Alan Houston's health.
nycericanguy wrote:always thought the Marbury trade was a bad one, but looking back , getting a 25 year old star PG for just 2 firsts was kind of a steal.Stars get traded for so much more these days. Even flawed ones like Marbury if they are young enough.
It was the same with the Melo trade. When you look at the players and the draft comp compared to today, it was a good deal for the Knicks.
Rashweed!!!
The trade you mentioned:February 19, 2004:
As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Atlanta Hawks to the Detroit Pistons; the Boston Celtics traded Chris Mills to the Atlanta Hawks; the Boston Celtics traded Mike James to the Detroit Pistons; the Detroit Pistons traded Željko Rebrača, Bob Sura and a 2004 1st round draft pick (Josh Smith was later selected) to the Atlanta Hawks; and the Detroit Pistons traded Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and a 2004 1st round draft pick (Tony Allen was later selected) to the Boston Celtics.
He did in fact resign with Detroit.
Knicks roster in 2004 after marbury trade:
Glossary
No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Birth Exp College
49 Shandon Anderson SG 6-6 208 December 31, 1973 us US 7 Georgia
42 Vin Baker PF 6-11 232 November 23, 1971 us US 10 University of Hartford
51 Michael Doleac C 6-11 262 June 15, 1977 us US 5 Utah
1 Anfernee Hardaway SG 6-7 195 July 18, 1971 us US 10 Memphis
32 Othella Harrington PF 6-9 235 January 31, 1974 us US 7 Georgetown
20 Allan Houston SG 6-6 200 April 20, 1971 us US 10 Tennessee
4 DerMarr Johnson SF 6-9 201 May 5, 1980 us US 2 Cincinnati
3 Stephon Marbury PG 6-2 180 February 20, 1977 us US 7 Georgia Tech
13 Nazr Mohammed C 6-10 221 September 5, 1977 us US 5 Kentucky
55 Dikembe Mutombo C 7-2 245 June 25, 1966 cd CD 12 Georgetown
25 Moochie Norris PG 6-1 175 July 27, 1973 us US 6 Auburn, University of West Florida
41 Bruno Šundov C 7-2 220 February 10, 1980 hr HR 5
50 Mike Sweetney PF 6-8 275 October 25, 1982 us US R Georgetown
40 Kurt Thomas PF 6-9 230 October 4, 1972 us US 8 TCU
5 Tim Thomas SF 6-10 230 February 26, 1977 us US 6 Villanova
35 Clarence Weatherspoon PF 6-7 240 September 8, 1970 us US 11 Southern Miss
30 Frank Williams PG 6-3 212 February 25, 1980 us US 1 Illinois
Recall, Isiah is just landing in NY in the fall of 2003 and had done the Marbury deal on January 5th. I cannot speak to what trade we could have done or the cap situation as it was very different then. Lenny Wilkens was also just installed as coach.
Vince Carter was also looking to get traded to NY from Toronto. But Isiah didn't want to give up Crawford and 2 first round picks. Said Toronto could either have Crawford and a 1st, or 2 1st and other cap filler, but not both.
newyorknewyork wrote:As stated earlier word was Rasheed was looking to sign as a mid level FA in the offseason believing Knicks were on the rise. Probably a short term deal, see if Isiah could build a contender right quick.Vince Carter was also looking to get traded to NY from Toronto. But Isiah didn't want to give up Crawford and 2 first round picks. Said Toronto could either have Crawford and a 1st, or 2 1st and other cap filler, but not both.
But he got traded mid season from ATL and still could have found his way here. he signed for 5 years for 58mm in 2004 for what I gather was more than the mid level. He used his leverage well. He thrived under Larry brown winning a chip year one and contined resurgence with two allstar nods playing for Flip Saunders in Detoit. They were formiable a few more year winning 64, 53, 59, games but ran into Miami with Shaq and wade, Then Clev with Lebron, and then Boston to get to finals.
No doubt the buzz at the time with Isiah and an owner willing to spend was a nice change from the failed starphuch that was Dyce. Of course we soured on Layden as the next "Wunderkind" GM so after Magic refused Dolan to be our President, he turned to Isiah who leveraged it up. Like Mcdyess, he had good ideas but failed miserably to execute and the Eddy Curry trade who ate two first round picks that proved valuable given how bad we actually were created another long drought of despair. I guess Vince would have been teh better value11!
We do know in hindisght vince was loafing it and proved to be excellent, but how he'd fit with Marbles is another story.
By the time Zach Randolph got here it was just too late. Crazy that he was only 26 when we got him. Steve Francis was just 28, just two years removed from being an allstar.
Yes, RashWeed Wallace could have been a great pick up for us!!!
Probably worse was moving Van Horn for Thomas and Mohammed- Marbury hated KVH, but he was playing well with KVH and KVH was having a good year. Thomas was a much softer, more inconsistent version of KVH and Nazr was a guy who couldn't defend, but collected rebounds and close baskets at a fair rate because he was large. That said Marbs was a perfect pick and pop partner with Doleac and KVH who could knock down jumpers...but he didn't really like playing with the Utes.
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:As stated earlier word was Rasheed was looking to sign as a mid level FA in the offseason believing Knicks were on the rise. Probably a short term deal, see if Isiah could build a contender right quick.Vince Carter was also looking to get traded to NY from Toronto. But Isiah didn't want to give up Crawford and 2 first round picks. Said Toronto could either have Crawford and a 1st, or 2 1st and other cap filler, but not both.
But he got traded mid season from ATL and still could have found his way here. he signed for 5 years for 58mm in 2004 for what I gather was more than the mid level. He used his leverage well. He thrived under Larry brown winning a chip year one and contined resurgence with two allstar nods playing for Flip Saunders in Detoit. They were formiable a few more year winning 64, 53, 59, games but ran into Miami with Shaq and wade, Then Clev with Lebron, and then Boston to get to finals.
No doubt the buzz at the time with Isiah and an owner willing to spend was a nice change from the failed starphuch that was Dyce. Of course we soured on Layden as the next "Wunderkind" GM so after Magic refused Dolan to be our President, he turned to Isiah who leveraged it up. Like Mcdyess, he had good ideas but failed miserably to execute and the Eddy Curry trade who ate two first round picks that proved valuable given how bad we actually were created another long drought of despair. I guess Vince would have been teh better value11!We do know in hindisght vince was loafing it and proved to be excellent, but how he'd fit with Marbles is another story.
By the time Zach Randolph got here it was just too late. Crazy that he was only 26 when we got him. Steve Francis was just 28, just two years removed from being an allstar.
Yes, RashWeed Wallace could have been a great pick up for us!!!
Its not that complicated.
He was interested in joining the Knicks as he thought they were on a path to being a contender. As on paper they had Marbury, Houston, KVH*turn*Tim Thomas/Muhammad, Penny Hardaway, Kurt Thomas, Mutumobo.
He ended up actually joining a contender and winning a chip who maintained his rights and could pay him within his bird rights. Had the deal fall through with Detroit and he stayed in ATL for the remainder of the season. Who knows very possible he ends up with the Knicks.
June 28, 2007: Traded by the Portland Trail Blazers with Dan Dickau and Fred Jones to the New York Knicks for Steve Francis and Channing Frye.November 21, 2008: Traded by the New York Knicks with Mardy Collins to the Los Angeles Clippers for Cuttino Mobley and Tim Thomas.
And forgot Tim Thomas was here twice!
He stole alright. Par for the course for that era.
Hated Tim Thomas. Both times. Soft ass punk. He was the anti-Knick. 6'10" and couldn't grab a rebound.
He was the Anthony Randolf before Rokus J was Andy Rautins.
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:As stated earlier word was Rasheed was looking to sign as a mid level FA in the offseason believing Knicks were on the rise. Probably a short term deal, see if Isiah could build a contender right quick.Vince Carter was also looking to get traded to NY from Toronto. But Isiah didn't want to give up Crawford and 2 first round picks. Said Toronto could either have Crawford and a 1st, or 2 1st and other cap filler, but not both.
But he got traded mid season from ATL and still could have found his way here. he signed for 5 years for 58mm in 2004 for what I gather was more than the mid level. He used his leverage well. He thrived under Larry brown winning a chip year one and contined resurgence with two allstar nods playing for Flip Saunders in Detoit. They were formiable a few more year winning 64, 53, 59, games but ran into Miami with Shaq and wade, Then Clev with Lebron, and then Boston to get to finals.
No doubt the buzz at the time with Isiah and an owner willing to spend was a nice change from the failed starphuch that was Dyce. Of course we soured on Layden as the next "Wunderkind" GM so after Magic refused Dolan to be our President, he turned to Isiah who leveraged it up. Like Mcdyess, he had good ideas but failed miserably to execute and the Eddy Curry trade who ate two first round picks that proved valuable given how bad we actually were created another long drought of despair. I guess Vince would have been teh better value11!
We do know in hindisght vince was loafing it and proved to be excellent, but how he'd fit with Marbles is another story.
By the time Zach Randolph got here it was just too late. Crazy that he was only 26 when we got him. Steve Francis was just 28, just two years removed from being an allstar.
Yes, RashWeed Wallace could have been a great pick up for us!!!
Dolan was on the Roomates Podcast and said they had a deal in place for Carter and the medical team said something was wrong with his Achilles or something so it killed the trade. He was eventually traded to the Nets and as Dolan put it, the was just waiting for the injury that never happened.
VDesai wrote:Trading for Marbs just didn't make a lot of sense from the perspective of we gave all our assets for him, and adding him didn't really make us a good team, even though he was a better individual player than any we had. With a healthy Houston we maybe were better than a fringe playoff contender, but definitely not a real contender.Probably worse was moving Van Horn for Thomas and Mohammed- Marbury hated KVH, but he was playing well with KVH and KVH was having a good year. Thomas was a much softer, more inconsistent version of KVH and Nazr was a guy who couldn't defend, but collected rebounds and close baskets at a fair rate because he was large. That said Marbs was a perfect pick and pop partner with Doleac and KVH who could knock down jumpers...but he didn't really like playing with the Utes.
I remember being really excited when Isiah made the Marbury trade, especially coming off of the Layden era. There were too many trades made that were made in a win now mode when the team was not there. Marbury had good chemistry in the pick in pop with I think Michaeal Doleac. That didn't last long.
Panos wrote:Funny, I remember being so excited to draft Lampe who was slotted #5 in some predraft predictions at #30, thinking he was going to be a steal.
He stole alright. Par for the course for that era.Hated Tim Thomas. Both times. Soft ass punk. He was the anti-Knick. 6'10" and couldn't grab a rebound.
He was the Anthony Randolf before Rokus J was Andy Rautins.
Yeah but TT had one of the all time great Knicks quotes when he called out Kenyon Martin for being a Fugazi tough guy. Even when Kenyon went on a tear for NYK at the tail end of 2012-13, and was a big part of that huge end of season win streak, I always thought of him as Fugazi, lol.
gradyandrew wrote:Yeah. Only out was TT that was Fugazy. Remember him taking boxing lessons in the summer. But he was a total pussyPanos wrote:Funny, I remember being so excited to draft Lampe who was slotted #5 in some predraft predictions at #30, thinking he was going to be a steal.Yeah but TT had one of the all time great Knicks quotes when he called out Kenyon Martin for being a Fugazi tough guy. Even when Kenyon went on a tear for NYK at the tail end of 2012-13, and was a big part of that huge end of season win streak, I always thought of him as Fugazi, lol.
He stole alright. Par for the course for that era.Hated Tim Thomas. Both times. Soft ass punk. He was the anti-Knick. 6'10" and couldn't grab a rebound.
He was the Anthony Randolf before Rokus J was Andy Rautins.