All the talk is how this is THE year, without Tatum, without Hali (sure, whatever), to really make a run. If you buy in and are convinced Kessler is the missing piece, you've got to do it.
But I probably get trigger shy on the deal. We're constructed to ride this second apron to maximize our window of contention. Not only do you have to think about extending Kessler next summer, you're shedding that very important extra year of Deuce's cost controlled contract. Does Kessler put us past OKC?
Moot point though because I don't trust Danny Ainge to make any sort of deal that isn't highway robbery.
You know what.. if we get to keep Mitch and then sign Delon Wright to replace Deuce, then I would seriously have to consider this. A Mitch/Kessler tandem could be a pretty nasty rotation at center. With that stated no way Ainge does this. He will want Dadiet and Mitch along with picks we don't even have.
Kessler next to KAT is what this would be about. YOung and perhaps healthy kid with the perspective it takes you over the top. YOu don't do this unless you think so.
And one has to see Deuce as expendible. Where is he getting minutes? At PG? SG?
If need be you give Utah Dadiet then you do it. Can he crack the rotation? What is the FO view on him?
Kessleer will want to be paid. So will Mitch. I don't see Utah as wanting Mitch given their situation. He can be rerouted?
Utah will need to be motivated and and receive an offer they can't refuse. Most fans won't like the price. Kessler will want how much? $20mil a year? What does Mitch want? What is his real market value? We all love mitch but come crunch time he can't be on the floor given his foul shooting insoncistancies. My take is even if healthy we let him walk at seasons end?
This is about this year. Perhaps I wait and see how Mike Brown puts this team together and see if chemistry is legitimate.
Then push the chips all in and fix deficits. We don't know this so we don't know the price to pay and what needs improvement.
I don't know enough about Utah's depth or outlook to really figure out how or why they do this.
A trade was logical even before we signed Brogden/Shamet. To what degree and when?
I've played with numerous Kessler trades past few months but always include Mitch going out.
Mitch/Deuce/Kolek for Kessler/K-Anderson ---- Knicks bring back roughly -$5.3M less in return.
Free's up roster spot for Shamet or Matthews (we also keep Brogdon) and leaves us with some extra apron wiggle room to add 15th man later in the year (left over of Shamet/Matthews).
So we lose Mitch but replace with younger, healthier, more mobile big in Kessler (a more viable starting center with better offense).
We lose Deuce but in theory we replace him with potentially 3 shooters by seasons end in Brogdon, Shamet, Matthews.
K-Anderson is gravy on top. Provides a legit Point Forward who can pass the ball and defend bigs (4's and 5's).
Anderson fits a spot we don't have right now on the bench - a versatile bench big who defends (shot sucks but outstanding passer/defender).
martin wrote:
Don't think this is enough for Kessler unless we were giving up future 1st and maybe Wash 2nds.
I do think Ainge would want Dadiet but hope Knicks hold onto him for now.
Also think Kessler is more mobile vs Mitch --- at least in terms of catching the ball and being able to make a subtle move or 2 around the rim.
Kessler only shoots about 50% from FT line (thought it was better) but on virtually the same minutes per game career wise --- Kessler args more points, boards, blocks and assists - legit young big 3 years young vs Mitch without the significant injury history (to date).
KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:You know what.. if we get to keep Mitch and then sign Delon Wright to replace Deuce, then I would seriously have to consider this. A Mitch/Kessler tandem could be a pretty nasty rotation at center. With that stated no way Ainge does this. He will want Dadiet and Mitch along with picks we don't even have.
I don't see any way Knicks add Kessler while Mitch stays --- both guys would be unhappy.
Utah may not want Mitch but he'd have to go.
Kessler and Mitch both have to be re-signed I believe - I'd prefer the healthier Kessler.
In the game the Utah handed us perhaps our worst loss of the season, I was impressed with Kessler's switch-ability. He was comfortable on the perimeter guarding guards. I don't have a great sense of where he ends up salary wise next year, the RFA means we can keep him either way even if we go over the 2nd apron. Makes either him or Mitch expendable in theory. Or if you embrace the non-FT shooting C motif, you have a defensive stud on the court at all times.
Brunson / Brogdon /
Bridges / Clarkson / Shamet
OG / Hart / Dadiet
KAT / Yabu / Diawara
Kessler / Robinson /
That's a pretty stacked 10 with a lot of redundancy to absorb injury. I'd probably try to keep Huk even if it meant including Dadiet. Feel like Huk is ready to step in sooner. But that wouldn't change my analysis here much.
You can keep Brogdon and Shamet. Diawara gets a slot. I think they have to sign Nnaji to a 2nd rd min to hit roster minimums. That's kind of why I would keep Huk and move Dadiet - Dadiet would unlock one more vet minimum, I think.
LivingLegend wrote:KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:You know what.. if we get to keep Mitch and then sign Delon Wright to replace Deuce, then I would seriously have to consider this. A Mitch/Kessler tandem could be a pretty nasty rotation at center. With that stated no way Ainge does this. He will want Dadiet and Mitch along with picks we don't even have.
I don't see any way Knicks add Kessler while Mitch stays --- both guys would be unhappy.
Utah may not want Mitch but he'd have to go.
Kessler and Mitch both have to be re-signed I believe - I'd prefer the healthier Kessler.
Hartenstein and Mitch got along fine. I think Kessler and Mitch would get along fine especially since Mitch will be out with his usual injuries.
KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:LivingLegend wrote:KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:You know what.. if we get to keep Mitch and then sign Delon Wright to replace Deuce, then I would seriously have to consider this. A Mitch/Kessler tandem could be a pretty nasty rotation at center. With that stated no way Ainge does this. He will want Dadiet and Mitch along with picks we don't even have.
I don't see any way Knicks add Kessler while Mitch stays --- both guys would be unhappy.
Utah may not want Mitch but he'd have to go.
Kessler and Mitch both have to be re-signed I believe - I'd prefer the healthier Kessler.
Hartenstein and Mitch got along fine. I think Kessler and Mitch would get along fine especially since Mitch will be out with his usual injuries.
Guess I'm thinking it would be Kat/Kessler sharing center duties not Kessler/Mitch but I suppose that is possible if Knicks wanted Kat as permanent 4 with OG to 3 and Mikal to 2.
Again though - I don't see any reasonable package with enough value going to Utah without Mitch in deal to add value to the deal. Maybe Mitch could go to a 3rd team with a pick going to Jazz.
Jazz aren't biting on Deuce/Dadiet for Kessler especially if that rumor of Reeeves/2 picks being true.
LivingLegend wrote:KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:LivingLegend wrote:KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:You know what.. if we get to keep Mitch and then sign Delon Wright to replace Deuce, then I would seriously have to consider this. A Mitch/Kessler tandem could be a pretty nasty rotation at center. With that stated no way Ainge does this. He will want Dadiet and Mitch along with picks we don't even have.
I don't see any way Knicks add Kessler while Mitch stays --- both guys would be unhappy.
Utah may not want Mitch but he'd have to go.
Kessler and Mitch both have to be re-signed I believe - I'd prefer the healthier Kessler.
Hartenstein and Mitch got along fine. I think Kessler and Mitch would get along fine especially since Mitch will be out with his usual injuries.
Guess I'm thinking it would be Kat/Kessler sharing center duties not Kessler/Mitch but I suppose that is possible if Knicks wanted Kat as permanent 4 with OG to 3 and Mikal to 2.
Again though - I don't see any reasonable package with enough value going to Utah without Mitch in deal to add value to the deal. Maybe Mitch could go to a 3rd team with a pick going to Jazz.
Jazz aren't biting on Deuce/Dadiet for Kessler especially if that rumor of Reeeves/2 picks being true.
I am thinking through some form of 3 way with Houston and Utah to solve Houston’s PG issue with some combination of Deuce/Kolek for my hearthrob Eason. I think the RFA nature of Kessler makes him difficult to approximate next year. We kind of need cost controls. But a guy like Eason could actually shore up the starting 5 (though he has mentioned preferring coming off the bench), with his energy and defense covering for KAT.
Brunson/Bridges/OG/Eason/KAT in a motion offense would be pretty solid. Deuce and Amen Thompson could cover for FVV. Kolek could get some run there.
"Heartthrob" Eason! Yes, he is your man!!
I'd think Reed Sheperd is ahead of Kolek by far and Deuce at PG is still not a solid lock. Personally I'd like to see Deuce get a starting job and chance to earn a nice big contract if he not here.
Eason is a PF and would be useful. We just signed Yabu for that role? Josh I assuem comes off the bench also. Move Josh and Eason can play both Forwards I assume?
I took Mitch/Kessler as being "Unhappy" but "he and iHart got along" as more about personality than about playing time. Context: iHart for a season and a half was not the version that we remember when he left. He was Mitch's back up and was cool with it. When Mitch got hurt in season two is when he ascended. Mitch came back for the playoffs and had to come from teh bench. I don't see where we obtain Kessler and keep Mitch unless we are letting mitch walk (im ok with that) but this year we go for it then extend Kessler. Mitch can serve a purpose and perhaps keep him healthy. If so he could get a better payday.
Fact is no team keeps everyone and lord knows we benefited from that his decade. In the age of parity there are opportunities and one has to create space for new ones. Im not runnig mitch out, just a reality check. Best scenario is he leaves with a ring and a nice contract in NOLA to play infront of family.
EwingsGlass wrote:I am thinking through some form of 3 way with Houston and Utah to solve Houston’s PG issue with some combination of Deuce/Kolek for my hearthrob Eason. I think the RFA nature of Kessler makes him difficult to approximate next year. We kind of need cost controls. But a guy like Eason could actually shore up the starting 5 (though he has mentioned preferring coming off the bench), with his energy and defense covering for KAT. Brunson/Bridges/OG/Eason/KAT in a motion offense would be pretty solid. Deuce and Amen Thompson could cover for FVV. Kolek could get some run there.
I don't know Eason well enough. Could he be a starting quality player on a deep playoff team?
Nalod wrote:"Heartthrob" Eason! Yes, he is your man!!I'd think Reed Sheperd is ahead of Kolek by far and Deuce at PG is still not a solid lock. Personally I'd like to see Deuce get a starting job and chance to earn a nice big contract if he not here.
Eason is a PF and would be useful. We just signed Yabu for that role? Josh I assuem comes off the bench also. Move Josh and Eason can play both Forwards I assume?
I took Mitch/Kessler as being "Unhappy" but "he and iHart got along" as more about personality than about playing time. Context: iHart for a season and a half was not the version that we remember when he left. He was Mitch's back up and was cool with it. When Mitch got hurt in season two is when he ascended. Mitch came back for the playoffs and had to come from teh bench. I don't see where we obtain Kessler and keep Mitch unless we are letting mitch walk (im ok with that) but this year we go for it then extend Kessler. Mitch can serve a purpose and perhaps keep him healthy. If so he could get a better payday.
Fact is no team keeps everyone and lord knows we benefited from that his decade. In the age of parity there are opportunities and one has to create space for new ones. Im not runnig mitch out, just a reality check. Best scenario is he leaves with a ring and a nice contract in NOLA to play infront of family.
Not for nothing but the FVV situation is exactly why you want Brogdon on the Knicks to supplement what Deuce, Clarkson, and Kolek may not be able to do not only off the bench but if Brunson is out with injury for more than a couple games.
Houston does have Durant on the roster, and while you don't want him to get bogged down with bringing the ball up the court all the time, FVV was more of a defending and distance shooting PG then he was at being a passing hub of an offense? I don't know
I don't see the fit with Kessler long term honestly. He is going to want to get paid 20+mil. Which then locks him in at starting C at 30+mins. He forces Kat to mostly play PF rather than allow the Knicks to be flexible.
IMO its better to have cheaper specialist around KAT allowing the Knicks to stay flexible with sliding KAT between PF & C.
FVV I recall was not great defender but can shoot and good leader. With Thompson being a stud defender it helped.
No doubt Brogdan is great insurance and hopefully can reduce JB's minutes a bit. Rockets need this kind of dude. CP3 would have worked.
If knicks playing faster its just logic we go deeper.
Carlisle's speech at seasons end depicted this as the new norm in the NBA. The little I saw of Reed Shepard I thought he could be really good once he filled out a bit.
I think KAT as PF that can slide to the 5 does give us flexibility. Minny was not wrong to go that way but perhaps Rudy was not offensively good enough to draw more attention despite his obvious defensive chops. I see mitch similar. What mitch does bring is elite offensive rebounding and a very good lob threat but does that dissipate he ages, thickens up and is less airborne? Mitch is getting large and less lanky as his lower core strength develops. If I am correct he could become more durable? If so maybe we extend him? Freaking Moses Malone was a monster under the boards not from leaping but from timing and was very strong. Just some thoughts. Kessler seems to have good size, decent offensive game, and good acumen. KAT at PF with that outside game and less defensive responsibilities is a handful for teams.
In Leon we trust.
Never even thought about him. Ainge is still his GM so he rather lose him for nothing than make an even trade.
Utah will continue to overprice its players. And Kessler is literally the only good player Ainge has drafted in his entire half-assed rebuild there. It’s impossible to deal with them.
martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I am thinking through some form of 3 way with Houston and Utah to solve Houston’s PG issue with some combination of Deuce/Kolek for my hearthrob Eason. I think the RFA nature of Kessler makes him difficult to approximate next year. We kind of need cost controls. But a guy like Eason could actually shore up the starting 5 (though he has mentioned preferring coming off the bench), with his energy and defense covering for KAT. Brunson/Bridges/OG/Eason/KAT in a motion offense would be pretty solid. Deuce and Amen Thompson could cover for FVV. Kolek could get some run there.
I don't know Eason well enough. Could he be a starting quality player on a deep playoff team?
I like him a lot BUT as a bench guy.
He is long, solid defender who is great in passing lanes but think his shot is suspect as a starting 2/3 and if I remember he’s a high turnover guy.
Doesn’t strike me as a guy like Mikal/OG where you can insert those 2 into most any line-up.
Would be very nice bench / energy guy.
Guy I’ve been wondering about is Brown’s old SG in Sac Town and whether we could work some type of package for K Ellis and start him next to Brunson.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:"Heartthrob" Eason! Yes, he is your man!!I'd think Reed Sheperd is ahead of Kolek by far and Deuce at PG is still not a solid lock. Personally I'd like to see Deuce get a starting job and chance to earn a nice big contract if he not here.
Eason is a PF and would be useful. We just signed Yabu for that role? Josh I assuem comes off the bench also. Move Josh and Eason can play both Forwards I assume?
I took Mitch/Kessler as being "Unhappy" but "he and iHart got along" as more about personality than about playing time. Context: iHart for a season and a half was not the version that we remember when he left. He was Mitch's back up and was cool with it. When Mitch got hurt in season two is when he ascended. Mitch came back for the playoffs and had to come from teh bench. I don't see where we obtain Kessler and keep Mitch unless we are letting mitch walk (im ok with that) but this year we go for it then extend Kessler. Mitch can serve a purpose and perhaps keep him healthy. If so he could get a better payday.
Fact is no team keeps everyone and lord knows we benefited from that his decade. In the age of parity there are opportunities and one has to create space for new ones. Im not runnig mitch out, just a reality check. Best scenario is he leaves with a ring and a nice contract in NOLA to play infront of family.
Not for nothing but the FVV situation is exactly why you want Brogdon on the Knicks to supplement what Deuce, Clarkson, and Kolek may not be able to do not only off the bench but if Brunson is out with injury for more than a couple games.
Houston does have Durant on the roster, and while you don't want him to get bogged down with bringing the ball up the court all the time, FVV was more of a defending and distance shooting PG then he was at being a passing hub of an offense? I don't know
Brogdon’s probably pissed he signed with Knicks prior to Fred injury —- he could be on Houston right now with guaranteed deal.
Pretty sure they are hard capped with no room.
