Knicks · 3rd annual trade for Herb Jones thread (Herb Alvarado for Deuce Mitch Kolek) (page 1)
martin@ 12/11/2025 8:12 PM
Knicks get a legit back PG and an elite wing defender/spacer to fortify WingStop depth.
Knicks lose their last remaining legacy players. Knicks lose backup beast center. Knicks gonna miss their loose Deuce. Deuce is at max value right now. Mitch is healthy and that’s max value too!
NOP get a stating level POA guard to put next to Dejounte Murray, they fit together. Play homeboy southern boy Mitch next to Trey Murphy and Derrick Queen after they jettison Zion. NOP needs good vibes and love Mitch beast personality and whatnot, he’s a country boy in the South.
Knicks biggest rotational weakness - backup PG - gets solved. Jalen’s regular season minutes can be reduced a lot to save him for playoffs because of Alvarado.
Brunson Mikal Herb OG KAT Alvarado Shamet Clarkson Hart Yabu Huk
That’s a brutal lineup up and down the 1-5. Offense and defense.
ramtour420@ 12/11/2025 9:12 PM
I see what we are losing. What are we getting tho? Who are those ppl?
martin@ 12/12/2025 7:33 AM
ramtour420 wrote:I see what we are losing. What are we getting tho? Who are those ppl?
Another elite wing defender who can shoot the 3. Herb Jones is not the most elite wing spacer but he is good enough. His POA and off ball defense is exquisite. Herb has been extended so his contract situation is known.
And Alvarado is a tough as nails defender and 40% 3pt shooter. Very good backup PG.
ramtour420@ 12/12/2025 9:23 AM
Those guys look good. But if they are so good, why is the other team going to do it?
martin@ 12/12/2025 9:46 AM
ramtour420 wrote:Those guys look good. But if they are so good, why is the other team going to do it?
For the reasons I put in the OP?
ramtour420@ 12/12/2025 10:57 AM
martin wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Those guys look good. But if they are so good, why is the other team going to do it?
For the reasons I put in the OP?
Oh, right. Reading comprehension much...I'd rather Mitch learn to shoot free throws. But that's out of realm of possibility
gradyandrew@ 12/12/2025 12:26 PM
The biggest issue for me is that Herbs contract extends past summer 2027 when Giannis can opt for FA. Knicks need to keep all options open in case they can add Giannis as a free agent.
martin@ 12/12/2025 1:04 PM
gradyandrew wrote:The biggest issue for me is that Herbs contract extends past summer 2027 when Giannis can opt for FA. Knicks need to keep all options open in case they can add Giannis as a free agent.
Do you really think the Knicks FO would be able get $50-$60M below the salary cap of ~$165M in 2027?
Cause that's the task at hand. They would have to not have KAT opt in, not use the team option on Josh, not extend Deuce, only sign Mitch to a 1 year deal for next year and release all of their rookie contracts? Or close to those steps while only having OG, Mikal, Jalen on roster.
All while also hoping MIL just doesn't trade Giannis for 2 years and THEN he opts out.
I don't think that's viable.
Knixkik@ 12/12/2025 1:05 PM
I hesitate with deuce trades because his shooting is so vital. And his advanced metrics alongside Brunson are also great. I’d rather get Saddiq Bey for cheap and keep Deuce.
martin@ 12/12/2025 1:10 PM
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1999537444987769283?s=20
-Herb would be a nice addition. -Hate OG at the 4 with Kat at the 5 though. OG then gets locked in guarding the PF or C with no real rim protection support. Saw him get really frustrated in the playoffs due to this. While keeping him at SF, he stays flexible to guard 1-5 depending on matchup. I know its working currently during the season. But come playoffs it will probably become a problem again. -Also need to feel that Huk is taking the leap and ready for consistent mins.
But if we are able to pawn Mitch for Herb and then use our draft pick this coming draft on Mitch replacement. Then that's a quality play. I just don't know if Pelicans will value Mitch like that anymore since Queen seems to be developing into their C of the future.
martin@ 12/12/2025 2:22 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:-Herb would be a nice addition. -Hate OG at the 4 with Kat at the 5 though. OG then gets locked in guarding the PF or C with no real rim protection support. Saw him get really frustrated in the playoffs due to this. While keeping him at SF, he stays flexible to guard 1-5 depending on matchup. I know its working currently during the season. But come playoffs it will probably become a problem again. -Also need to feel that Huk is taking the leap and ready for consistent mins.
But if we are able to pawn Mitch for Herb and then use our draft pick this coming draft on Mitch replacement. Then that's a quality play. I just don't know if Pelicans will value Mitch like that anymore since Queen seems to be developing into their C of the future.
My assumption is that they LOVE Queen and he is living up to his potential really quick.
To make that team better and get out of their collective gutter level funk, they would usher Zion out somehow and feature Queen. You need a defensive center to protect Queen, that was my assumption. I thought he was more PF than C and NOP don't have a starting level guy like Mitch could be.
DeJounte Murry, Deuce, Trey Murphy, Derrick Queen, Mitch. Jordan Poole, Fears, Hawkins, Zion, Missi, Looney
NOP would be adding 2 playoffs caliber vets to their starting lineup.
To me that's a solid starting lineup and a balanced one if they figure out how to fit and could kinda maybe get a playoff play-in birth next year if things worked, so a top 10 team (Memphis/Dallas territory for this year). That's the vibes Joe Dumars and organization desperately needs. Mitch would kill it on the marketing end of things as he is nearly a home town guy? I could be wrong on that.
martin@ 12/12/2025 2:32 PM
This is kinda wild
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/krispursiainen/status/1999552244534985100?s=20
gradyandrew wrote:The biggest issue for me is that Herbs contract extends past summer 2027 when Giannis can opt for FA. Knicks need to keep all options open in case they can add Giannis as a free agent.
Do you really think the Knicks FO would be able get $50-$60M below the salary cap of ~$165M in 2027?
Cause that's the task at hand. They would have to not have KAT opt in, not use the team option on Josh, not extend Deuce, only sign Mitch to a 1 year deal for next year and release all of their rookie contracts? Or close to those steps while only having OG, Mikal, Jalen on roster.
All while also hoping MIL just doesn't trade Giannis for 2 years and THEN he opts out.
I don't think that's viable.
I think it would be really difficult for all the reasons you mentioned. And if I'm honest, as good as Giannis is, I don't know if losing all the guys you mentioned makes it worth it on balance. Ideally the Knicks execute a trade that is basically KAT for Giannis.
Milwaukee has very little incentive to do that. So now it comes down to leverage. If Giannis says he will only extend with NY then the only way to make that threat real is if the Knicks have some path forward to sign Giannis as a FA. Things happen fast in the NBA so maybe things change in the next month or so. But at least for now I'm waiting to see if the Giannis smoke will lead to a fire.
Nalod@ 12/13/2025 9:35 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
martin wrote:This is kinda wild
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/krispursiainen/status/1999552244534985100?s=20
No to DDV. Thats too much low cost depth. which creates other issues. Knicks will need Help I agree.
Clarkson and Deuce are bargains. Its not that I don't want DDV. Mitch and DDV salary match. Put in the Washington pick (really its now 2 2nd's) and call it a day. Does Minny do that? Doubt it if we the ones calling.
An article mentioned Josh and thats out of the question in my mind.
ramtour420@ 12/13/2025 11:01 AM
Deuce and Shamet are: 1) real two way players, so we'd have to be getting real two way players back. Donte tries on defense, but he is not really a defender like Shamet or Deuce.
2) Deuce and Shamet have more value to us than to other teams because of their low salary and our cap situation. These type of assets are a must for a team with max players in order to also have real depth.
3) I really have a soft spot for DVV.That playoff run we made with him made me a believer. At that point he was a pretty ideal starter for us. But once we got Mikal, who is a better player, where does that put DVV? It's the same issue as we had with him at the time of the trade. He would come here to be a bench player. Not sure if he would be cool with that, as it was a problem back then.
gradyandrew@ 12/13/2025 11:03 AM
The only player I am looking to trade is Yabu.
martin@ 12/13/2025 11:36 AM
Good listen. Nothing earth shattering but nice details
