Knicks · GameThread: Knicks host Dallas for MLK Day game 5pm (page 6)

martin wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:Don't know the context here but yikes

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I hope Brunson as the captain is telling this to the guys face to face. No need to use the media to send a message.

Yes. Man to Man, not Phil Jackson style

Brunson: How’s it goink?

I still say "How's it goink" to my wife and kids. I don't think that will ever leave my subconscious.

Nalod wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Prob why the Kolek minutes felt OK for a while too.

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Both Hart and Kolek go out of their way to try to get Kat going.

Aside from all the Kat blame (I concur) you are starting to see/hear some commentary regarding THE CAPTAIN being an issue.

- not distributing enough
- not defending much at all
- gets all the glory - none of the blame

Think it was CP the Franchise going off last night (which he never does on the Captain) --- basically saying it's now 2 different coaches and playing with 2 different VERY TALENTED 2nd scorers in KAT/JULIUS and Jalen still hasn't shown much interest in really creating a 2-man game in either scenario.

I mean me personally I feel like 3 or 4 times a game there are easy opportunities to get Kat an easy look and Jalen ignores for his own look. On the flip side I think both Julius and Kat both shared the ball well with Jalen.

Plus Jalen is THE CAPTAIN right - not even sure if we have another guy (hopefully Kat isn't a captain) but somebody or Jalen preferably has got to get this ship in order.

For the most part Its not like KAT not trying. Its Almost like he trying too hard? The thing about Thibs was he was not making things easy and the players were not playing in an offensive system. Brown had that going and Jalen/Kat/OG/MIkal had easier looks.
Where did that go? Is this on the players? This team is not the 1990's with a defensive personality. Its offensively charged and while KAT is not a defensive stopper, he is a weapon himself others have to contain.

Ok, so there is somthing not coehisive about this group collective personality. I think there is plenty of blame to go around. There is much we don't know as fans so we can speculate.

See - I agree 100% that Brown is not the issue because we were cooking with Brown thru the tourney BUT what was never fully right was Kat.

I don’t believe the full effort is there —- sometimes yes but at some point he’s purposely pulled back. You can look like you’re working hard when you crash to the floor but really all I see is a guy making purposeful bad decisions all over the court. And the constant push off fouls, kicking guys in the nuts, bloodying lips with flailing arms, shoving guys in the back on layups —- that’s all just loser low effort shit.

- was he ever happy with Brown? Don’t know
- was it the emphasis on Kat having to sacrifice in order for Wingstop to get more shots? Don’t know.
- is it the Giannis rumors? Or did he get wind of Memphis, Charlotte, Orlando rumors? Don’t know.

Bottom line he’s not defending, he’s taking shit shots, he’s making garbage decisions and he’s checked out.

All this said I still think it’s possible we see some miraculous turnaround from these guys and things start clicking again —— problem with that when do the vibes die down and we are back to sucking.

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Prob why the Kolek minutes felt OK for a while too.

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Both Hart and Kolek go out of their way to try to get Kat going.

Aside from all the Kat blame (I concur) you are starting to see/hear some commentary regarding THE CAPTAIN being an issue.

- not distributing enough
- not defending much at all
- gets all the glory - none of the blame

Think it was CP the Franchise going off last night (which he never does on the Captain) --- basically saying it's now 2 different coaches and playing with 2 different VERY TALENTED 2nd scorers in KAT/JULIUS and Jalen still hasn't shown much interest in really creating a 2-man game in either scenario.

I mean me personally I feel like 3 or 4 times a game there are easy opportunities to get Kat an easy look and Jalen ignores for his own look. On the flip side I think both Julius and Kat both shared the ball well with Jalen.

Plus Jalen is THE CAPTAIN right - not even sure if we have another guy (hopefully Kat isn't a captain) but somebody or Jalen preferably has got to get this ship in order.

I agree 100% with this. Jalen gotta be a better on court leader for team. His moments gotta come late in games, not ISO during. And when team is struggling offensively, going to HIS offense gotta be done at the right times and lean more getting others involved

Yep and with less burden to score early in games maybe there is more in tank for defense 😏

Panos wrote:

ToddTT wrote:Our championship window closed the day Julius dislocated his shoulder.

Whatever this product is, I don;t enjoy it.

Same. I don't like KAT, I don't like Bridges and OG I don't mind but he's in too big a role and over paid.

Aside from the KAT stupidities, the thing i hate the most is when the Invisible Man occasionally makes a shot and turns to the other bench and taunts them with tongue out and bobble-head. He's on our team and I still want to punch him in the mouth. Like as if he's some kind of impact player. He needs to learn some humility to match his impact.

Randle and championship window were never 1 in the same —— he was historically bad in the playoffs for us — that January run was OG addition driven.

Now - should Kat and championship be mentioned in same breath? Not based on how he’s played this year. Early last year maybe but still a numb-nuts.

Randle/Kat trade was always a deal of 2 flawed stars - Divo is what hurt extra and I tend to think Knicks viewed Kat as a better avenue to getting a bigger star. Kat on the other hand seems determined to kil all his value.

Listening to blip from Fred Kats and basically saying word is Kat value = Trae value and deal with Charlotte would be talking about something like M-Bridges, Sexton, R-Kolkbrenner (shaking my head).

LivingLegend wrote:

Panos wrote:

ToddTT wrote:Our championship window closed the day Julius dislocated his shoulder.

Whatever this product is, I don;t enjoy it.

Same. I don't like KAT, I don't like Bridges and OG I don't mind but he's in too big a role and over paid.

Aside from the KAT stupidities, the thing i hate the most is when the Invisible Man occasionally makes a shot and turns to the other bench and taunts them with tongue out and bobble-head. He's on our team and I still want to punch him in the mouth. Like as if he's some kind of impact player. He needs to learn some humility to match his impact.

Randle and championship window were never 1 in the same —— he was historically bad in the playoffs for us — that January run was OG addition driven.

Now - should Kat and championship be mentioned in same breath? Not based on how he’s played this year. Early last year maybe but still a numb-nuts.

Randle/Kat trade was always a deal of 2 flawed stars - Divo is what hurt extra and I tend to think Knicks viewed Kat as a better avenue to getting a bigger star. Kat on the other hand seems determined to kil all his value.

Listening to blip from Fred Kats and basically saying word is Kat value = Trae value and deal with Charlotte would be talking about something like M-Bridges, Sexton, R-Kolkbrenner (shaking my head).

I have a slightly different take. His play for NY in playoffs certainly was not good but he wasn't necessarily bad.

Randle only played in 2 playoff series/seasons for the Knicks. Against Hawks where NY had no business even GETTING to the playoffs but it was Randle who carried the whole franchise to the playoffs on his own back and mostly all by himself. The shortened COVID season where he went bonkers and apprarently was smoking the right weed.

The next playoffs he hurt his ankle just before end of season and came back WAY too early and was ineffective.

For me, unlucky below average performances but he did them with all his efforts. I don't know what more you can ask for.

EVERY elite player has had those playoff performances. From Giannis on down. They are not unique to Randle.

Randle proved by now he can perform in the playoffs, he just did it in another uniform.

Knicks were final four last year.
Got good seeding.
Kat was special vs. Detroit. He pulled it out.
Vs. Boston? Stand out plays by Mikal also was memoroable.
Thoses are banked in the books. They mattered. I undderstand frustration now but we had a great time last year and our expectations with Tatum and Hali out the east was ours for the taking. 2-9 no doubt plants seeds of doubt. They are valid.

On the wish list if I'd like to see Kat do less. By that let the game come to him. Make it a bit easy. "Numb-NUts".....Thats a good description!
Im bet Dwight Powell after Mondays game was anything but that!

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Panos wrote:

ToddTT wrote:Our championship window closed the day Julius dislocated his shoulder.

Whatever this product is, I don;t enjoy it.

Same. I don't like KAT, I don't like Bridges and OG I don't mind but he's in too big a role and over paid.

Aside from the KAT stupidities, the thing i hate the most is when the Invisible Man occasionally makes a shot and turns to the other bench and taunts them with tongue out and bobble-head. He's on our team and I still want to punch him in the mouth. Like as if he's some kind of impact player. He needs to learn some humility to match his impact.

Randle and championship window were never 1 in the same —— he was historically bad in the playoffs for us — that January run was OG addition driven.

Now - should Kat and championship be mentioned in same breath? Not based on how he’s played this year. Early last year maybe but still a numb-nuts.

Randle/Kat trade was always a deal of 2 flawed stars - Divo is what hurt extra and I tend to think Knicks viewed Kat as a better avenue to getting a bigger star. Kat on the other hand seems determined to kil all his value.

Listening to blip from Fred Kats and basically saying word is Kat value = Trae value and deal with Charlotte would be talking about something like M-Bridges, Sexton, R-Kolkbrenner (shaking my head).

I have a slightly different take. His play for NY in playoffs certainly was not good but he wasn't necessarily bad.

Randle only played in 2 playoff series/seasons for the Knicks. Against Hawks where NY had no business even GETTING to the playoffs but it was Randle who carried the whole franchise to the playoffs on his own back and mostly all by himself. The shortened COVID season where he went bonkers and apprarently was smoking the right weed.

The next playoffs he hurt his ankle just before end of season and came back WAY too early and was ineffective.

For me, unlucky below average performances but he did them with all his efforts. I don't know what more you can ask for.

EVERY elite player has had those playoff performances. From Giannis on down. They are not unique to Randle.

Thanks for saving me the typing.

People keep glossing over facts.

I have no problem with people hating Julius Randle. Hate away!

But also prepare for the likelihood that Julius has one or more rings before any current Knick. Minnesota was already a very good team, and they won the KAT trade.

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Panos wrote:

ToddTT wrote:Our championship window closed the day Julius dislocated his shoulder.

Whatever this product is, I don;t enjoy it.

Same. I don't like KAT, I don't like Bridges and OG I don't mind but he's in too big a role and over paid.

Aside from the KAT stupidities, the thing i hate the most is when the Invisible Man occasionally makes a shot and turns to the other bench and taunts them with tongue out and bobble-head. He's on our team and I still want to punch him in the mouth. Like as if he's some kind of impact player. He needs to learn some humility to match his impact.

Randle and championship window were never 1 in the same —— he was historically bad in the playoffs for us — that January run was OG addition driven.

Now - should Kat and championship be mentioned in same breath? Not based on how he’s played this year. Early last year maybe but still a numb-nuts.

Randle/Kat trade was always a deal of 2 flawed stars - Divo is what hurt extra and I tend to think Knicks viewed Kat as a better avenue to getting a bigger star. Kat on the other hand seems determined to kil all his value.

Listening to blip from Fred Kats and basically saying word is Kat value = Trae value and deal with Charlotte would be talking about something like M-Bridges, Sexton, R-Kolkbrenner (shaking my head).

I have a slightly different take. His play for NY in playoffs certainly was not good but he wasn't necessarily bad.

Randle only played in 2 playoff series/seasons for the Knicks. Against Hawks where NY had no business even GETTING to the playoffs but it was Randle who carried the whole franchise to the playoffs on his own back and mostly all by himself. The shortened COVID season where he went bonkers and apprarently was smoking the right weed.

The next playoffs he hurt his ankle just before end of season and came back WAY too early and was ineffective.

For me, unlucky below average performances but he did them with all his efforts. I don't know what more you can ask for.

EVERY elite player has had those playoff performances. From Giannis on down. They are not unique to Randle.

Thanks for saving me the typing.

People keep glossing over facts.

I have no problem with people hating Julius Randle. Hate away!

But also prepare for the likelihood that Julius has one or more rings before any current Knick. Minnesota was already a very good team, and they won the KAT trade.

I was more commenting on Randle/Kat and Championship --- I've never said he wasn't very talented and there were many times he carried us.

It's more I struggle to believe EITHER Randle or Kat can fully function all the way to a championship.

Hell Kat is a nut-job and he's played in 2 straight conference finals -- he's soooo good and yet such a waste with his baloney. Me - I think Julius often did the same stuff. Both guys put up stats and both guys often implode (at some point) as pressure mounts.

I've had times where I think Kat is up to it - never felt that way with Julius and really don't think I'm a hater on Julius (just not a big fan).

Nalod wrote:Knicks were final four last year.
Got good seeding.
Kat was special vs. Detroit. He pulled it out.
Vs. Boston? Stand out plays by Mikal also was memoroable.
Thoses are banked in the books. They mattered. I undderstand frustration now but we had a great time last year and our expectations with Tatum and Hali out the east was ours for the taking. 2-9 no doubt plants seeds of doubt. They are valid.

On the wish list if I'd like to see Kat do less. By that let the game come to him. Make it a bit easy. "Numb-NUts".....Thats a good description!
Im bet Dwight Powell after Mondays game was anything but that!

I mean how many times did he knee and slap Powell in that game --- all the while Kat is screaming for fouls. 1 of a kind.

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knicks were final four last year.
Got good seeding.
Kat was special vs. Detroit. He pulled it out.
Vs. Boston? Stand out plays by Mikal also was memoroable.
Thoses are banked in the books. They mattered. I undderstand frustration now but we had a great time last year and our expectations with Tatum and Hali out the east was ours for the taking. 2-9 no doubt plants seeds of doubt. They are valid.

On the wish list if I'd like to see Kat do less. By that let the game come to him. Make it a bit easy. "Numb-NUts".....Thats a good description!
Im bet Dwight Powell after Mondays game was anything but that!

I mean how many times did he knee and slap Powell in that game --- all the while Kat is screaming for fouls. 1 of a kind.

I kind of think it was remanicent of Embiid?

Who won the Trade?

Both MInny and knicks acended to high places year one. Kat was All NBA and an allstar. Jules had a great season.
DDV might be the kicker there but have to go back to the time of the trade. Jules was not happy and due an extension.
I tend to think DDV time here is a big exaggerated given his final games he had to shoot his ass off and he delivered.
Not detracting from reality, but not sugar coating it. I was and still quite fond of Jules and did not hold him responsible for any short coming of the team. As Martin laid out his playoff performances were limited by injuries except the infamious ATL series which we hold as an upset but forget ATL was just one game back in standings and were surging prior where knicks had earlier but were kindo of stuck.

Who won the trade? I suppose if one is hating on KAT these days it an easy choice.