Knicks · The really short off season for knicks! How to run it back? (page 22)

Knixkik wrote:I don’t expect Mitch to be back. And I expect the Knicks didn’t draft a center because they didn’t think any were worth rostering for a contending team. I expect them to make an unexpected trade for a semi-replacement.

Whether Mitch is back or not, they have a plan to stock the Center position.

And if Mitch is not back, then they may already have a handshake deal lined up to move several of our cheaper contracts for a veteran center.

If so, then they can bring back our inexpensive unsigned players like Huk or Kev and pay the rookies and other cheap pickups.

All I can be certain of is they didn't skip drafting frontline depth casually without a plan in place.

The question is will it happen before or after Vegas?

Chandler wrote:^^^^^

I like dadiet. He needs a defined role to get some rhythm.

What are you basing this on or is it just vibes? Even at the beginning of the season with OG and Shamet, Pacome couldn't get any non-garbage minutes. If we want to bring Jose Mitchell and Landry back we need at least some small sacrifices.

fitzfarm wrote:

martin wrote:Best writers don’t usually offer this stark an opinion

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I just don’t see this why would we do what we did in the draft to just see him walk? That would give our draft grade a F

The only thing other than mitch would be to trade McBride for a really good back up defensive stud 5. Like a Kessler

I agree that the draft day work doesn’t jive with a team that doesn’t expect to bring Mitch back. That said, Kessler turned down 4 years 140mm. Not sure he solves any problems for us.

Nick Richards?

Mark Williams got paid 38 for 3 to be the starting center in Phoenix.
Al Horford got paid 14 for 2 in Golden State.

Both those guys have injury histories as well and are similar to Mitchell in that they do somethings well and others poorly.

Another thing I'm not sure we should discount is the MSG/ Robinson relationship. Mitchell is going to miss a lot of free throws, but the fan base has so much love for Robinson that they only seem to celebrate when he makes them and never get angry when he doesn't. Robinson seems like a pretty simple guy. I'm not so sure if you can put a dollar amount on that kind of a relationship with the fans.

gradyandrew wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^^^^

I like dadiet. He needs a defined role to get some rhythm.

What are you basing this on or is it just vibes? Even at the beginning of the season with OG and Shamet, Pacome couldn't get any non-garbage minutes. If we want to bring Jose Mitchell and Landry back we need at least some small sacrifices.

So, moving Dadiet doesn’t change much. He makes $3mm. We could save &800 replacing him with a 2 year vet minimum- like McCullar or Huk.

Alvarado opts out and takes a 3 year deal lower than 4.5 per. Sign both 2nds to 1st year rookie min (without giving a two way first like they blew it with Huk) - 1.36mm each.

Do all that, you can get maybe 10.4mm for Mitch and play the season with 14 player.

So, in this scenario you can basically have Shamet/Huk/McCullar or Mitch/Huk or McCullar. Sub in any vet minimum for Huk/McCullar.

gradyandrew wrote:A couple things to look at:

Mark Williams got paid 38 for 3 to be the starting center in Phoenix.
Al Horford got paid 14 for 2 in Golden State.

Both those guys have injury histories as well and are similar to Mitchell in that they do somethings well and others poorly.

Another thing I'm not sure we should discount is the MSG/ Robinson relationship. Mitchell is going to miss a lot of free throws, but the fan base has so much love for Robinson that they only seem to celebrate when he makes them and never get angry when he doesn't. Robinson seems like a pretty simple guy. I'm not so sure if you can put a dollar amount on that kind of a relationship with the fans.

Hope that relationship is worth less money.

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^^^^

I like dadiet. He needs a defined role to get some rhythm.

What are you basing this on or is it just vibes? Even at the beginning of the season with OG and Shamet, Pacome couldn't get any non-garbage minutes. If we want to bring Jose Mitchell and Landry back we need at least some small sacrifices.

So, moving Dadiet doesn’t change much. He makes $3mm. We could save &800 replacing him with a 2 year vet minimum- like McCullar or Huk.

Alvarado opts out and takes a 3 year deal lower than 4.5 per. Sign both 2nds to 1st year rookie min (without giving a two way first like they blew it with Huk) - 1.36mm each.

Do all that, you can get maybe 10.4mm for Mitch and play the season with 14 player.

So, in this scenario you can basically have Shamet/Huk/McCullar or Mitch/Huk or McCullar. Sub in any vet minimum for Huk/McCullar.

That's exactly my feeling. 800k could be a 10% raise for Landry or Mitchell Robinson and it's likely whoever replaces Dadiets roster spot is more likely to contribute. Knicks would probably have to attach a second round pick (or picks) to do so but it'd be worth it to keep one or both of Landry/ Mitchell.

gradyandrew wrote:Also, wouldn't replacing Dadiet with an undrafted rookie potentially save even more? Like 1.7? If we were choosing between Dadiet and Sochan, I'm picking Sochan every time, even if it means moving some second rounders we got on draft night.

Correct. Or Melvin Ajinca.

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^^^^

I like dadiet. He needs a defined role to get some rhythm.

What are you basing this on or is it just vibes? Even at the beginning of the season with OG and Shamet, Pacome couldn't get any non-garbage minutes. If we want to bring Jose Mitchell and Landry back we need at least some small sacrifices.

So, moving Dadiet doesn’t change much. He makes $3mm. We could save &800 replacing him with a 2 year vet minimum- like McCullar or Huk.

Alvarado opts out and takes a 3 year deal lower than 4.5 per. Sign both 2nds to 1st year rookie min (without giving a two way first like they blew it with Huk) - 1.36mm each.

Do all that, you can get maybe 10.4mm for Mitch and play the season with 14 player.

So, in this scenario you can basically have Shamet/Huk/McCullar or Mitch/Huk or McCullar. Sub in any vet minimum for Huk/McCullar.

That's exactly my feeling. 800k could be a 10% raise for Landry or Mitchell Robinson and it's likely whoever replaces Dadiets roster spot is more likely to contribute. Knicks would probably have to attach a second round pick (or picks) to do so but it'd be worth it to keep one or both of Landry/ Mitchell.

I’m not as down on Dadiet as you. He still needs development. Needs a little kick in the ass and to realize it’s ok to be more aggressive on defense. I do think the Knicks thought they could stash him and got that wrong.

Brown wasn't shy about reaching deep down in his bench, but for whatever reason, even down 2 forwards to injury Dadiet never got a chance to play meaningful minutes. This isn't Thibs not playing Obi or IQ enough. I can't see any reason in not playing one of the very few deep bench guys with another guaranteed year other than him not contributing to winning basketball.

TLDR: he sucks.

Windy doing lines :)

Go get nick richards

gradyandrew wrote:Jericho Sims opted in to his minimum deal and Buddy Hield agreed to push back his team option on 9.66 for another day. I'm just posting these guys here so we can have some comparison of Robinson/ Landry 'type' players and the contracts they are getting.

I mean Heild opted in b/c he knows he's not sniffing $9m on the open market...lol

THJR signed for vet min last season, GTJR just signed for vet min also.

Rookie wrote:It just occurred to me that all of this is bullshit. The only reason Dolan won’t go into the second apron is because he is going to sell the team now that he has a winner. Mission accomplished time to cash out. He is setting the franchise up for a sale not a repeat

IMO its not about saving a few million $$'s. Dolan is getting guidance from both Leon and Brock.....the team will likely not be able to avoid the 2nd Apron in coming years without having to move on from the Core 5 players. With that in mind, it makes sense to stay under the 2nd Apron this year as the penalties are steep.

Penalties for crossing the first apron

No Bi-Annual Exception: Teams cannot use the Bi-Annual Exception to sign free agents.

Mid-Level Exception (MLE) Cut: lose access to the Non-Taxpayer MLE and instead only have access to the smaller Taxpayer MLE.

Buyout Market Limit: They cannot sign free agents bought out during the season if their previous salary exceeded the non-taxpayer MLE amount.

Trade Limitations - No Sign-and-Trade Acquisitions: Teams cannot acquire a player via sign-and-trade if it puts or keeps them above the first apron.

Negative Salary Matching: They cannot take back more overall salary in a trade than they send out.

Salary matching is restricted to within 110% of outgoing salary.

Expired Trade Exceptions: cannot use trade exceptions generated from the previous league year.

Penalties for crossing the second apron (on top of all first Apron penalties) :

No mid-level exception — can’t sign players at the $12.2M–$12.8M

No salary aggregation — can’t combine multiple outgoing salaries to match one incoming player

Tighter trade matching — can only take back salaries equal to what’s sent out, no cushion

No sign-and-trade — can’t acquire players via sign-and-trade

No cash in trades — can’t send out cash to match incoming players

Frozen draft pick — first-round pick seven years out is locked in trades until the team avoids the apron in at least three of the next four years

Ideal vet min FA target for me would be Jonas Val. Full court press on courting him.

Trade targets
Dereck Lively from the Mavs
Kalkbrenner from the Hornets.
Capela from the Rockets
Jaylin Williams from the Thunder is interesting. Strong analytics, could actually start for us at PF moving Hart to the bench.

gradyandrew wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^^^^

I like dadiet. He needs a defined role to get some rhythm.

What are you basing this on or is it just vibes? Even at the beginning of the season with OG and Shamet, Pacome couldn't get any non-garbage minutes. If we want to bring Jose Mitchell and Landry back we need at least some small sacrifices.

No doubt he will have to earn his spot. But I think his struggles are largely due to no role. Right now he’s more afraid of making mistakes and he hasn’t played loose in a while (other than garbage time). That said he’s young so no need to rush stuff. This is what development can look like sometimes.

If we have to sacrifice then Jose should be the first to go. He’s fiery and fun but not a pg and honestly doesn’t offer much other than energy.