Knicks · I love our FO but they F’ed up our draft (page 1)

Leon Rose should be in the HOF for leading us to a title and he should have a statue in MSG

That being said, this offseason is a cluster

First off, I blame Dolan for refusing to go over the 2nd apron. How does he not let our FO do what they want after winning a title?

But as soon as he knew we weren’t going over the 2nd apron he needed to pivot. He needed to determine if we can bring our bench back BEFORE the draft. There’s no excuse for not knowing we are losing Mitch

Once we know we’re losing Mitch, it completely changes our cap. We actually have room to work with. Rather than punting on Round 1, we should’ve double downed on Round 1 as a cost efficient way to retool

This mistake is massive:

- It cost us a potential star in Cameron Carr. He was expected to go in the lottery. 6’6”, 7’ wingspan, 42” vertical, plays D and shoots the 3. It’s extremely rare for the champs to turn around and acquire this level of talent in the draft but he was right there for us and would’ve cost $2.8M

- It also cost us Tarris Reed. The Spurs used pick 35 + 2 future 2nd rounders to move up to 26 and draft him. We could’ve used pick 31 + 2 future 2nd rounders. He’s ready to play now and would give us the best possible Mitch replacement with the potential to be better overall than Mitch. We could resign Huk and bring Precious back to make backup center a strength

We’d still be able to draft Kayal and Nickel in the 2nd. Since we’re not going over the 2nd apron, it makes sense to trade Deuce and Dadiet now for assets as their contracts next year would be prohibitive.

This would be our team:
Starters: Same 5
Core Bench: Alvarado, Shamet, Diawara, Precious / Reed / Huk
Deep Bench: Kolek, McCullar, Carr
2 Ways: Nickel, Kayal (we’d have the salary and 1 roster spot to convert one of them to a min contract

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns | $57,078,728
OG Anunoby | $39,568,966
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $7,050,000
Jose Alvarado | $4,500,000
Cameron Carr (Pick #24) | $2,800,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tarris Reed Jr. (Pick #26) | $2,600,000
Precious Achiuwa (Vet Min) | $2,460,000
Ariel Hukporti | $2,250,000
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Tyler Kolek | $2,185,633
Jack Kayil (Two-Way) | $0
Tyler Nickel (Two-Way) | $0
TOTAL PAYROLL | $218,364,626
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $3,635,374

yea losing Mitch would suck but is understandable, but trading #24 & #31 picks to save a bit of money only to lose him anyway would be a headscratcher. 5 seconds are nice but we really missed out on drafting some guys that could have really helped in a year or two.

May end up being right, but a little premature to call out the FO for fucking up something that hasn't happened yet?

MaTT4281 wrote:May end up being right, but a little premature to call out the FO for fucking up something that hasn't happened yet?

It’s extremely unlikely that we’re keeping Mitch and Shamet. And if I’m choosing between Shamet + Mitch and Shamet + Carr + Reed + more flexibility I’m going with the latter

PatCummings wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:May end up being right, but a little premature to call out the FO for fucking up something that hasn't happened yet?

It’s extremely unlikely that we’re keeping Mitch and Shamet. And if I’m choosing between Shamet + Mitch and Shamet + Carr + Reed + more flexibility I’m going with the latter

The second apron math does not work in that Shamet + Carr + Reed scenario. And for a championship level team, grabbing vet mins makes much better sense versus Reed? Knicks flat out NEED to fill 2 roster spots with second round pick mins to just to keep Shamet and fill necessary roster spots.

I trust Rose and don’t think he F up at all. Why anyone would think they know better is beyond me.
Feel he is confident that he can fill voids, ie Mitch, with Huk or via free agency with a vet min.
If we are honest, MR is a great offensive rebounder and defensive player but hard to trust he can stay on the court in key playoff moments via hack a Mitch.
In terms of lost opportunity, Not likely to put much weight behind so called “potential stars”. Please don’t make me list the long list of all the ones from years past.
And why invest in more question marks when you still have guys that you want to give minutes to that have been under your coaching staff for the past couple of years? Ones who the coaches have a good sense as to actual potential? Ie. Diawara, Kolek, Dadiet. All so called potential stars at one point on these threads. Not to mention the 2 second rounders we just picked up and known cheap renewals in Mculler, Huk
Those players you mentioned we lost out may turn into good players. But they may not. Point really is not only what players are available but who is able to develop them. Think our circumstances leans to a repeat and not so much towards a late first round development situation.

martin wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:May end up being right, but a little premature to call out the FO for fucking up something that hasn't happened yet?

It’s extremely unlikely that we’re keeping Mitch and Shamet. And if I’m choosing between Shamet + Mitch and Shamet + Carr + Reed + more flexibility I’m going with the latter

The second apron math does not work in that Shamet + Carr + Reed scenario. And for a championship level team, grabbing vet mins makes much better sense versus Reed? Knicks flat out NEED to fill 2 roster spots with second round pick mins to just to keep Shamet and fill necessary roster spots.

It 100% works. Here it is. I agree with the vet min and include Precious

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns | $57,078,728
OG Anunoby | $39,568,966
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $7,050,000
Jose Alvarado | $4,500,000
Cameron Carr (Pick #24) | $2,800,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tarris Reed Jr. (Pick #26) | $2,600,000
Precious Achiuwa (Vet Min) | $2,460,000
Ariel Hukporti | $2,250,000
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Tyler Kolek | $2,185,633
Jack Kayil (Two-Way) | $0
Tyler Nickel (Two-Way) | $0
TOTAL PAYROLL | $218,364,626
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $3,635,374

every team that ended up in the second apron had to quickly break the team up and give up assets to shed salaries. and every team 1-2 years after has been in shambles.

25 Boston
25 suns
24 timberwolves

going into the second apron has not been good for teams

if you want to hyperventilate over the second apron, the actual logical thing the front office should've done is to trade Mikal. His salary is 38m and there is a lot of overlap with existing players on the team or FAs that we can sign that would certainly take up less than 38m and have room left over to sign Mitch.

But we know trading Mikal at this point is never happening.

PatCummings wrote:

martin wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:May end up being right, but a little premature to call out the FO for fucking up something that hasn't happened yet?

It’s extremely unlikely that we’re keeping Mitch and Shamet. And if I’m choosing between Shamet + Mitch and Shamet + Carr + Reed + more flexibility I’m going with the latter

The second apron math does not work in that Shamet + Carr + Reed scenario. And for a championship level team, grabbing vet mins makes much better sense versus Reed? Knicks flat out NEED to fill 2 roster spots with second round pick mins to just to keep Shamet and fill necessary roster spots.

It 100% works. Here it is. I agree with the vet min and include Precious

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns | $57,078,728
OG Anunoby | $39,568,966
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $7,050,000
Jose Alvarado | $4,500,000
Cameron Carr (Pick #24) | $2,800,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tarris Reed Jr. (Pick #26) | $2,600,000
Precious Achiuwa (Vet Min) | $2,460,000
Ariel Hukporti | $2,250,000
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Tyler Kolek | $2,185,633
Jack Kayil (Two-Way) | $0
Tyler Nickel (Two-Way) | $0
TOTAL PAYROLL | $218,364,626
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $3,635,374

You are not using correct salary numbers, some are this past year, some are next year. For current players or draft picks.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/rookie-s...

https://www.twitter.com/yossigozlan/stat...

I will say this.

Knicks operated similarly in 2022 & 2024 trading out their draft picks for future draft capital and cap savings.
They ended up securing Brunson as a FA and trading for Towns those years.

Whatever man. You are speaking hypotheticals that may have been never even on the table. This front office hasn't f'ked up any drafts yet but we able to find some absolute gems very deep. While moving down or out of the lottery altogether. And spending that money on signing real difference makers. Just a total masterclass for anyone paying attention. Oh and as for trading Mikal? You must be joking...Did you not see him absolutely shut guys down in the playoffs? What I saw was guys getting a switch from OG and having Mikal guard them and just looking to pass....

We've retained Mo and Jose. Love the Mo deal and I am fine with the Jose deal if Coach Brown values him that much.

Meanwhile, we added a sniper who will be given rotation minutes if he can deliver.

AFAIK, that's 3 pieces falling into place so far and not insignificant.

I can wait to see the rest.

Not like any of us have a clue what's going on in the war room anyway.

We just won a chip. I'd say we're in good hands. None of us are more equipped to get it done than our FO.

Don't let the information vacuum drive you crazy. It ain't worth it. They've got a plan and we will probably see it all fall into place by the end of SL.

That's about three weeks. Until then, finish that knitting project you left undone during the playoffs.

aggo wrote:every team that ended up in the second apron had to quickly break the team up and give up assets to shed salaries. and every team 1-2 years after has been in shambles.

25 Boston
25 suns
24 timberwolves

going into the second apron has not been good for teams

if you want to hyperventilate over the second apron, the actual logical thing the front office should've done is to trade Mikal. His salary is 38m and there is a lot of overlap with existing players on the team or FAs that we can sign that would certainly take up less than 38m and have room left over to sign Mitch.

But we know trading Mikal at this point is never happening.

I think the Knicks should’ve gone over the 2nd apron but it is what it is. My argument isn’t about the 2nd apron. It’s that we should’ve realized we can’t sign Mitch, and possibly Shamet too. Given that, there was no reason to punt on the draft.

martin wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

martin wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:May end up being right, but a little premature to call out the FO for fucking up something that hasn't happened yet?

It’s extremely unlikely that we’re keeping Mitch and Shamet. And if I’m choosing between Shamet + Mitch and Shamet + Carr + Reed + more flexibility I’m going with the latter

The second apron math does not work in that Shamet + Carr + Reed scenario. And for a championship level team, grabbing vet mins makes much better sense versus Reed? Knicks flat out NEED to fill 2 roster spots with second round pick mins to just to keep Shamet and fill necessary roster spots.

It 100% works. Here it is. I agree with the vet min and include Precious

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns | $57,078,728
OG Anunoby | $39,568,966
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $7,050,000
Jose Alvarado | $4,500,000
Cameron Carr (Pick #24) | $2,800,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tarris Reed Jr. (Pick #26) | $2,600,000
Precious Achiuwa (Vet Min) | $2,460,000
Ariel Hukporti | $2,250,000
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Tyler Kolek | $2,185,633
Jack Kayil (Two-Way) | $0
Tyler Nickel (Two-Way) | $0
TOTAL PAYROLL | $218,364,626
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $3,635,374

You are not using correct salary numbers, some are this past year, some are next year. For current players or draft picks.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/rookie-s...

https://www.twitter.com/yossigozlan/stat...

I had OG wrong by $3M. A few others are slightly different than your numbers but my numbers are higher in those cases. I have a buffer of over $3M so it still works. I designated Kayal and Nickel as 2 way players which is why they have no salary. I have Shamet with a 3 yr $22M backloaded deal.

What did I miss? Now that we're champs I no longer feel the urgency to nitpick every move in the off season. I'll leave that to you nerds.

newyorknewyork wrote:I will say this.

Knicks operated similarly in 2022 & 2024 trading out their draft picks for future draft capital and cap savings.
They ended up securing Brunson as a FA and trading for Towns those years.

Correct and doing whatever it takes for Brunson and KAT makes sense. This is different

ramtour420 wrote:Whatever man. You are speaking hypotheticals that may have been never even on the table. This front office hasn't f'ked up any drafts yet but we able to find some absolute gems very deep. While moving down or out of the lottery altogether. And spending that money on signing real difference makers. Just a total masterclass for anyone paying attention. Oh and as for trading Mikal? You must be joking...Did you not see him absolutely shut guys down in the playoffs? What I saw was guys getting a switch from OG and having Mikal guard them and just looking to pass....

Carr was available at 24. The hypothetical is us trading for Reed at 26. We had a better offer than San Antonio and needed him more

I’m with you on the front office. They’ve been amazing. I just think they goofed on this draft.

I didn’t suggest trading Mikal. But if Cameron Carr fulfills his potential, he’ll have similar defensive traits

BlueKnickers wrote:We've retained Mo and Jose. Love the Mo deal and I am fine with the Jose deal if Coach Brown values him that much.

Meanwhile, we added a sniper who will be given rotation minutes if he can deliver.

AFAIK, that's 3 pieces falling into place so far and not insignificant.

I can wait to see the rest.

Not like any of us have a clue what's going on in the war room anyway.

We just won a chip. I'd say we're in good hands. None of us are more equipped to get it done than our FO.

Don't let the information vacuum drive you crazy. It ain't worth it. They've got a plan and we will probably see it all fall into place by the end of SL.

That's about three weeks. Until then, finish that knitting project you left undone during the playoffs.

I’m with you on all those moves and agree we’re in good hands. I just think we’d be better off if we drafted Carr and Reed

BigDaddyG wrote:What did I miss? Now that we're champs I no longer feel the urgency to nitpick every move in the off season. I'll leave that to you nerds.

Short summary. We traded our 1st round pick for 2nds bc we wanted to save room to resign Mitch and Shamet. We passed up Cameron Carr who is a stud wing that was projected to be drafted in the lottery. We did that for no reason bc we don’t nearly have enough money to resign Mitch

Tarris Reed, senior Center from UConn who’s 6’10”, 7’4” wingspan and a beast at 265 lbs would be a ready made replacement for Mitch. The Spurs traded their 35 and 2 future 2nd rounders to move up and draft him. We had 31 and plenty of future 2nd rounders and could’ve had him

PatCummings wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:We've retained Mo and Jose. Love the Mo deal and I am fine with the Jose deal if Coach Brown values him that much.

Meanwhile, we added a sniper who will be given rotation minutes if he can deliver.

AFAIK, that's 3 pieces falling into place so far and not insignificant.

I can wait to see the rest.

Not like any of us have a clue what's going on in the war room anyway.

We just won a chip. I'd say we're in good hands. None of us are more equipped to get it done than our FO.

Don't let the information vacuum drive you crazy. It ain't worth it. They've got a plan and we will probably see it all fall into place by the end of SL.

That's about three weeks. Until then, finish that knitting project you left undone during the playoffs.

I’m with you on all those moves and agree we’re in good hands. I just think we’d be better off if we drafted Carr and Reed

I wanted to go over initially too, but the reality is past contenders or champions who went over the second apron had to decimate their rosters permaturely in subsequent seasons with godawfully sh!tty moves because of the constraints that limit your maneuverability once over the 2nd apron.

Whatever their logic in this draft was, it will somehow be related to their aggregated moves which are based on a primary objective:

Protecting the core of the club without having to resort to self-destructive subtractive actions in the seasons after you go over the 2nd apron.

Pipeline players and drafted players come AFTER that objective.

And the NEXT objective will likely be:

What players fill out the roster that can help us repeat NEXT year?

These will still be win now moves while trying to maintain their talent pipeline.

This is why I project Nickel as a rotation player. He's drafted to play now.

Whom they pick up or trade for will likely be about who can play NOW in a push to repeat.

This is a situation where they climbed to the mountain top and their opportunity to repeat with the existing core may be very much dependent upon staying under the 2nd apron.

All the things you are limited by and all of the future penalties that occur if you do go over are about more than Dolan's pocketbook. This is about protecting the core so you can make a dynastic run over the next three seasons. And that means extensions for Brunson, KAT and probably Hart. They are planning for those deals NOW by staying under the apron this year.

Therefore, this is about the FO's ability to modify the roster in upcoming seasons as much as this one.

You go over and flexibility goes out the window for years and it can precipitate a fairly rapid fall out of contention in upcoming seasons if they went over the 2nd and then tried to climb back under it.

I have no idea what they are cooking up, but it is pretty clearly going to be under the 2nd apron. How that influenced their thinking about this draft is not something you nor I have any understanding of yet.

Most of us here are speaking about checkers. This is a multi-year chess game 3-4 years into the future they are playing today.

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:We've retained Mo and Jose. Love the Mo deal and I am fine with the Jose deal if Coach Brown values him that much.

Meanwhile, we added a sniper who will be given rotation minutes if he can deliver.

AFAIK, that's 3 pieces falling into place so far and not insignificant.

I can wait to see the rest.

Not like any of us have a clue what's going on in the war room anyway.

We just won a chip. I'd say we're in good hands. None of us are more equipped to get it done than our FO.

Don't let the information vacuum drive you crazy. It ain't worth it. They've got a plan and we will probably see it all fall into place by the end of SL.

That's about three weeks. Until then, finish that knitting project you left undone during the playoffs.

I’m with you on all those moves and agree we’re in good hands. I just think we’d be better off if we drafted Carr and Reed

I wanted to go over initially too, but the reality is past contenders or champions who went over the second apron had to decimate their rosters permaturely in subsequent seasons with godawfully sh!tty moves because of the constraints that limit your maneuverability once over the 2nd apron.

Whatever their logic in this draft was, it will somehow be related to their aggregated moves which are based on a primary objective:

Protecting the core of the club without having to resort to self-destructive subtractive actions in the seasons after you go over the 2nd apron.

Pipeline players and drafted players come AFTER that objective.

And the NEXT objective will likely be:

What players fill out the roster that can help us repeat NEXT year?

These will still be win now moves while trying to maintain their talent pipeline.

This is why I project Nickel as a rotation player. He's drafted to play now.

Whom they pick up or trade for will likely be about who can play NOW in a push to repeat.

This is a situation where they climbed to the mountain top and their opportunity to repeat with the existing core may be very much dependent upon staying under the 2nd apron.

All the things you are limited by and all of the future penalties that occur if you do go over are about more than Dolan's pocketbook. This is about protecting the core so you can make a dynastic run over the next three seasons. And that means extensions for Brunson, KAT and probably Hart. They are planning for those deals NOW by staying under the apron this year.

Therefore, this is about the FO's ability to modify the roster in upcoming seasons as much as this one.

You go over and flexibility goes out the window for years and it can precipitate a fairly rapid fall out of contention in upcoming seasons if they went over the 2nd and then tried to climb back under it.

I have no idea what they are cooking up, but it is pretty clearly going to be under the 2nd apron. How that influenced their thinking about this draft is not something you nor I have any understanding of yet.

Most of us here are speaking about checkers. This is a multi-year chess game 3-4 years into the future they are playing today.

I think it’s more likely that McCullar cracks the rotation over Nickel. McCullar is 25 and had a good year last year for Westchester. I’d like to see him get an extended look