Funny, D'aaron Fox won the initial "Jerry West Trophy" in 2023!
THen Steph, Then Jalen, and SGA this past season.
Context.....MJ had two finals moments to finish game winning shots. But he did not take them. In the first three peat one was a pass to Paxon and again a few years later to Steve Kerr. Drawing the defenders/double team is important. Jalen drew a double team on the game 4 shot including Wemby, who was out of position to get the rebound being to far away. Mikal to the right, KAt to the left, and Shamet was but as we know OG was perfectly positioned.
Jalen did not make the shot. Odds are never great. Kobe, whose reputatin was stellar for such things I think hit only 33% of game ending shots and he was about the best.
Jalen was the beat option. Now, Jalen could have flipped the ball right back to OG who would have been wide open for the shot but he had a good look.
Brunson is hosting the first episode of Saturday Night Live
The writers have a golden opportunity to write some good stuff, they better not blow it
We kind of have to expect cameos from the other Knicks
BlueKnickers wrote:Brunson is hosting the first episode of Saturday Night LiveThe writers have a golden opportunity to write some good stuff, they better not blow it
We kind of have to expect cameos from the other Knicks
Haven’t watched Saturday Night Live in 30 years guess I’m going to have to now
Numbers and timelines can be cherry picked but they also speak for themselves, hot damn
BlueKnickers wrote:Brunson is hosting the first episode of Saturday Night LiveThe writers have a golden opportunity to write some good stuff, they better not blow it
We kind of have to expect cameos from the other Knicks
NO pressure! LOL!
I can see Josh in the audience in the monologue doing something or a bunch of them on stage with some bit. Hope mitch comes along. Maybe even make fun of the fact he a Celtic?
See what winning does? Goes from an underrated player/personality to one that is going to be everywhere!
martin wrote:Numbers and timelines can be cherry picked but they also speak for themselves, hot damn
IMHO, JB is the greatest Knick to play.
No disrespect to Ewing (my favorite Knick) and to Reed and Frazier (OGs)
But JB had crazy numbers on one of two Knick teams to have won a title.
Frazier and Reed had grit and will always be remembered for getting us our first chip.
But they competed in an era where the average player was probably at the level of a modern day top level D3 player.
As for Ewing, who had a phenomenal career, unfortunately he did not get us the ultimate prize to help his case to be the greatest Knick ever.
Never thought it was possible due to his smaller stature, but JB was unstoppable and deserves my vote for the greatest Knick ever.
However, keep in mind, this is being posted just months after he brought me the greatest Knick moment of my life. 🙂
HofstraBBall wrote:martin wrote:Numbers and timelines can be cherry picked but they also speak for themselves, hot damn
IMHO, JB is the greatest Knick to play.
No disrespect to Ewing (my favorite Knick) and to Reed and Frazier (OGs)
But JB had crazy numbers on one of two Knick teams to have won a title.
Frazier and Reed had grit and will always be remembered for getting us our first chip.
But they competed in an era where the average player was probably at the level of a modern day top level D3 player.
As for Ewing, who had a phenomenal career, unfortunately he did not get us the ultimate prize to help his case to be the greatest Knick ever.
Never thought it was possible due to his smaller stature, but JB was unstoppable and deserves my vote for the greatest Knick ever.
However, keep in mind, this is being posted just months after he brought me the greatest Knick moment of my life. 🙂
Question per the bold above:
Do you believe, in general, HOF level players in today's league are superior to HOF players from the 70's or 80's?
Good question and one that incites thought and some objectivity.
Not sure most of us can do that. One has to consider even players from 30 years ago let alone 50-60?
If you took Wilt, who came up in the 1050;s and gave him the same neutritional and modern training methods/medical would he play in todays NBA? While there were few 7 footers in the day, he had long career in part dominent beyond all means/avg's. IN college he was a track star. Imagine if he trained like today? Yet, 6-9 center bill Russell could play him very well. Not defacto stop him, but play him well enought. The age where every team has a damn near great Center.....Unseld, Reed, Wilt, Kareem, Bob Lanier, Bellamy just to name a few that are in the HOF.
Back in the day an ACL or Achilles tear was a career ender. They played in sneakers most of us won't wear casually today to walk the streets.
The old timey game? Not much international players then but we had fewer teams. Can't say its diluted given the amount of non american MVP in this era. Yes, even canadians count! LOL......
Lets even ask if Jordan would be the same today? the level of athletic abilty is greater with each generation.
Im not saying Jalen is NOT the greatest knick. We tend to have a current bias and also forget or did not fully appreicate the legends and what and how they got to were they were.
We can perhaps argue well each of Ewing, Reed/Clyde and Jalen and perhaps not be far off a truth that does not exist.
LIke I said previously, Jalen has yet to win a season MVP. Willis had that. Ewing did not. The Reed/clyde era was spread out also. Knicks lost in semi's in 1969 and by 1974 were cooked. Call that 4-5 seasons.
I'd put this Knick team in season two having made Conf. finals vs. Indy last year.
Jalen still might eclipse and get a few more chips and perhaps an MVP. The man is just 30 years old.
If you want to say Jalens Playoff run and MVP as an individual is singularly greater than Willis? That might hold true. If you want to say Jalen as a knick has capativated the city like no other? Well that also is a thing!
Different eras and fans! Its all good1
Nalod wrote:
Good question and one that incites thought and some objectivity.
Not sure most of us can do that. One has to consider even players from 30 years ago let alone 50-60?If you took Wilt, who came up in the 1050;s and gave him the same neutritional and modern training methods/medical would he play in todays NBA? While there were few 7 footers in the day, he had long career in part dominent beyond all means/avg's. IN college he was a track star. Imagine if he trained like today? Yet, 6-9 center bill Russell could play him very well. Not defacto stop him, but play him well enought. The age where every team has a damn near great Center.....Unseld, Reed, Wilt, Kareem, Bob Lanier, Bellamy just to name a few that are in the HOF.
Back in the day an ACL or Achilles tear was a career ender. They played in sneakers most of us won't wear casually today to walk the streets.
The old timey game? Not much international players then but we had fewer teams. Can't say its diluted given the amount of non american MVP in this era. Yes, even canadians count! LOL......
Lets even ask if Jordan would be the same today? the level of athletic abilty is greater with each generation.
Im not saying Jalen is NOT the greatest knick. We tend to have a current bias and also forget or did not fully appreicate the legends and what and how they got to were they were.
We can perhaps argue well each of Ewing, Reed/Clyde and Jalen and perhaps not be far off a truth that does not exist.
LIke I said previously, Jalen has yet to win a season MVP. Willis had that. Ewing did not. The Reed/clyde era was spread out also. Knicks lost in semi's in 1969 and by 1974 were cooked. Call that 4-5 seasons.
I'd put this Knick team in season two having made Conf. finals vs. Indy last year.
Jalen still might eclipse and get a few more chips and perhaps an MVP. The man is just 30 years old.
If you want to say Jalens Playoff run and MVP as an individual is singularly greater than Willis? That might hold true. If you want to say Jalen as a knick has capativated the city like no other? Well that also is a thing!
Different eras and fans! Its all good1
IF is not part of the equation when debating which players were at a higher level. Since we are comparing what actually was. Agree that If players had the type of training of those today, they would be just as good. But that helps my point on why the players from earlier eras were not as good. Another factor was that in the 50s and 60s many had to get second jobs in the offseason. Which kept them from playing/training all year long. They also did not have the training/dietery knowledge of those today. All reasons why I feel players today are at a higher level. And why I feel JB was a greater Knick than Reed. Ewing played in a different era than those in the 60s and 70s and had many of the same resources as players today. Was probably as skilled but never won a chip.
I agree with most except "Greatness".
Isnt greatness measured by rising to the moment? Actualling doing something "great".
By your measure Ewing was superior to Reed. I won't argue that. As a knick, Ewing was taller, faster, better shooter and all the stats to show for it.
Both were ROY.
Then Reed won MVP and two Chips and was 2x finals MVP. That is Greatness.
What does JB and Reed/Clyde have in common? They won chips.
Is JB a better player than Clyde? As a Knick. There is some disuccsion there. Both have advantages and circumstances that make for it. Both are iconic in different ways and the era.
OG vs. Debusschere. OG is the evolution of Dave. Dave would not be a PF in this day and age. Not with demons roaming the court like O. Dave did some great things over many years. When Reed went down in 1970 He guarded Wilt most of game 7 in. Now, thats a different type of thing than OG's tip in. I
Best Knick vs best player but fact the eras are different don't matter? I kind of think it has.
Im not saying Jalen is not anyting short of incredible but if we have to rank them I have to take some things into account. Win another chip or two, get a seaon MVP and I there is no arguemnt from me. Few years ago I revisited Willis career, his early NBA years, etc and became more impressed with him as a player.
This really does not take away Ewings career or Jalens up until now.
Healthy debate and with all respect.
But lets smoke a peace pipe and agree its 2026 and Jalen is the absolute shit!
Jalen gonna be on the emmy's intro?
Was shouted out by Harry Styles in MSG!
At the US open.....1
On SNL.....!
He everywhere!
Non knicks fans will hate this.
Jalen head big enough, hope it don't get too big! LOL.....
He earned his fame.
Nalod wrote:I agree with most except "Greatness".
Isnt greatness measured by rising to the moment? Actualling doing something "great".
By your measure Ewing was superior to Reed. I won't argue that. As a knick, Ewing was taller, faster, better shooter and all the stats to show for it.
Both were ROY.
Then Reed won MVP and two Chips and was 2x finals MVP. That is Greatness.
What does JB and Reed/Clyde have in common? They won chips.
Is JB a better player than Clyde? As a Knick. There is some disuccsion there. Both have advantages and circumstances that make for it. Both are iconic in different ways and the era. OG vs. Debusschere. OG is the evolution of Dave. Dave would not be a PF in this day and age. Not with demons roaming the court like O. Dave did some great things over many years. When Reed went down in 1970 He guarded Wilt most of game 7 in. Now, thats a different type of thing than OG's tip in. I
Best Knick vs best player but fact the eras are different don't matter? I kind of think it has.
Im not saying Jalen is not anyting short of incredible but if we have to rank them I have to take some things into account. Win another chip or two, get a seaon MVP and I there is no arguemnt from me. Few years ago I revisited Willis career, his early NBA years, etc and became more impressed with him as a player.
This really does not take away Ewings career or Jalens up until now.
Healthy debate and with all respect.
But lets smoke a peace pipe and agree its 2026 and Jalen is the absolute shit!
Would agree regarding greatness label.
For me they were both great. As was Ewing.
Meant to focus on skilled more than great.
Reason that I may have called him that was that thread is about greatest .
Think fans will agree, extremely thankful for having Reed , Ewing and JB as part of our history.
