Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 158)

Posted by TMS:

if anyone believes Nomar wasn't on steroids when he was putting up MVP calibre numbers, they're kidding themselves... dude was just as jacked up as Giambi at 1 point.

[sarcasm]What do you mean, Nomar wasn't mentioned anywhere in the Mitchell Report so he couldn't have been juiced up.[/sarcasm]

I wonder if Mitchell even bothered to talk to anyone associated with the Red Sox? If he did it proabably went like this:

Mitchell: You've never heard of anybody here doing any of this stuff, right? <wink wink>

Red Sox employee: Uh, of course not Mr Mitchell.

This is what a lot of teenagers are trying to do.


Here's a little fun.

So I hear Bonds is really F'ed in the A now. Urine samples with steroids detected and Estellela testifying against him. He's going to be owned. Time to slap that * on those HR's.

Torre on Larry King? I saw only the last 5 min but he seemed complimentary to A-Rod. Larry asked him who the most gifted athlete he ever coached was and Torre said "Without question, Alex Rodrigez."

Posted by Bonn1997:

Torre on Larry King? I saw only the last 5 min but he seemed complimentary to A-Rod. Larry asked him who the most gifted athlete he ever coached was and Torre said "Without question, Alex Rodrigez."

So there, his book isn't that big of a deal, as the media and some fans are making it out to be. Alex, we all know deserves to be criticized at least a 'little'. I just don't think Joe is being mean spirited about it.

Posted by GKFv2:

So I hear Bonds is really F'ed in the A now. Urine samples with steroids detected and Estellela testifying against him. He's going to be owned. Time to slap that * on those HR's.

I'm gonna take the same approach that you take with the Knicks. 'I'll believe it when I see it *'!

colorful!

DJ.. what the hell is that?

Posted by nyk4ever:

DJ.. what the hell is that?

the stadium has funky lighting if they ever want to do anything different there...

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nyk4ever:

DJ.. what the hell is that?

the stadium has funky lighting if they ever want to do anything different there...

Wow that's pretty weird.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nyk4ever:

DJ.. what the hell is that?

the stadium has funky lighting if they ever want to do anything different there...

Wow that's pretty weird.

Torre is a punk. I'm listening to his spin on the FAN and it makes me sick. He violates the sanctity of the clubhouse, preys on easy targets while offering nothing new, comes off as bitter blaming everybody else for the last 7 years while taking as much credit as possible for the first 5 and comes off as totally ungrateful for what the Yankees have done for him, which is pretty much everything.

Torre should remember that without the Yankees, he's probably still the guy who has played and managed in the most games without ever having been to the world series instead of the highest paid manager in baseball, celebrity and future Hall of Famer. Ingrate.

It's sickening how above the fray he pretends to be while he puts this garbage book out.

Posted by islesfan:

Torre is a punk. I'm listening to his spin on the FAN and it makes me sick. He violates the sanctity of the clubhouse, preys on easy targets while offering nothing new, comes off as bitter blaming everybody else for the last 7 years while taking as much credit as possible for the first 5 and comes off as totally ungrateful for what the Yankees have done for him, which is pretty much everything.

Torre should remember that without the Yankees, he's probably still the guy who has played and managed in the most games without ever having been to the world series instead of the highest paid manager in baseball, celebrity and future Hall of Famer. Ingrate.

It's sickening how above the fray he pretends to be while he puts this garbage book out.

i bought the book for $23 at barnes and noble (20% off) - i only finished the 1st chapter but already he said "the team was different" after o'neill and co. left. he said it turned to people more concerned about #'s. the entire chapter is about how the yankee championship teams were led by torre's great managing and how he played small ball and the dynasty ended when they brought in non-team players.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-03-2009 8:23 PM]

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by islesfan:

Torre is a punk. I'm listening to his spin on the FAN and it makes me sick. He violates the sanctity of the clubhouse, preys on easy targets while offering nothing new, comes off as bitter blaming everybody else for the last 7 years while taking as much credit as possible for the first 5 and comes off as totally ungrateful for what the Yankees have done for him, which is pretty much everything.

Torre should remember that without the Yankees, he's probably still the guy who has played and managed in the most games without ever having been to the world series instead of the highest paid manager in baseball, celebrity and future Hall of Famer. Ingrate.

It's sickening how above the fray he pretends to be while he puts this garbage book out.

i bought the book for $23 at barnes and noble (20% off) - i only finished the 1st chapter but already he said "the team was different" after o'neill and co. left. he said it turned to people more concerned about #'s. the entire chapter is about how the yankee championship teams were led by torre's great managing and how he played small ball and the dynasty ended when they brought in non-team players.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-03-2009 8:23 PM]

I hope our high price FAs are not simply concerned about #s. Only time will tell but that's a definite risk you take with big FAs.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by islesfan:

Torre is a punk. I'm listening to his spin on the FAN and it makes me sick. He violates the sanctity of the clubhouse, preys on easy targets while offering nothing new, comes off as bitter blaming everybody else for the last 7 years while taking as much credit as possible for the first 5 and comes off as totally ungrateful for what the Yankees have done for him, which is pretty much everything.

Torre should remember that without the Yankees, he's probably still the guy who has played and managed in the most games without ever having been to the world series instead of the highest paid manager in baseball, celebrity and future Hall of Famer. Ingrate.

It's sickening how above the fray he pretends to be while he puts this garbage book out.

i bought the book for $23 at barnes and noble (20% off) - i only finished the 1st chapter but already he said "the team was different" after o'neill and co. left. he said it turned to people more concerned about #'s. the entire chapter is about how the yankee championship teams were led by torre's great managing and how he played small ball and the dynasty ended when they brought in non-team players.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-03-2009 8:23 PM]

Let us know when you get to the part where Torre blames Mo for blowing the 2004 ALCS because he threw over 3 times to keep Roberts close. I want to know if Torre accepts any responsibility as, you know, the manager, for not telling Mo to either pitch to the batter or call a pitchout after those pickoff attempts. I get the feeling it was all hindsight that Torre uses to blame Mo when if you're going to use hindsight to blame anybody, it would be the manager.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by islesfan:

Torre is a punk. I'm listening to his spin on the FAN and it makes me sick. He violates the sanctity of the clubhouse, preys on easy targets while offering nothing new, comes off as bitter blaming everybody else for the last 7 years while taking as much credit as possible for the first 5 and comes off as totally ungrateful for what the Yankees have done for him, which is pretty much everything.

Torre should remember that without the Yankees, he's probably still the guy who has played and managed in the most games without ever having been to the world series instead of the highest paid manager in baseball, celebrity and future Hall of Famer. Ingrate.

It's sickening how above the fray he pretends to be while he puts this garbage book out.

i bought the book for $23 at barnes and noble (20% off) - i only finished the 1st chapter but already he said "the team was different" after o'neill and co. left. he said it turned to people more concerned about #'s. the entire chapter is about how the yankee championship teams were led by torre's great managing and how he played small ball and the dynasty ended when they brought in non-team players.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-03-2009 8:23 PM]

Let us know when you get to the part where Torre blames Mo for blowing the 2004 ALCS because he threw over 3 times to keep Roberts close. I want to know if Torre accepts any responsibility as, you know, the manager, for not telling Mo to either pitch to the batter or call a pitchout after those pickoff attempts. I get the feeling it was all hindsight that Torre uses to blame Mo when if you're going to use hindsight to blame anybody, it would be the manager.

the absolute last person on Earth that Joe Torre should be throwing under the bus for anything he's ever done as a Yankee is Mariano Rivera... the guy is probably the single biggest reason Joe has those championships under his belt to begin with.

looking forward to reading this book myself... i wanna see just how self aggrandizing he really comes off as here... i know this book was written by Verducci but since it's got Joe's name on it he's obviously accountable for what's in it.

"Is Nomar More Valuable than Jeter?"
Can someone who has ESPN Insider post this article? The title definitely caught my attention.

Younger readers might not remember, but there was a time not too long ago when Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter and Nomar Garciaparra were the "Holy Trinity" of baseball shortstops, stirring debates in bars across America. It was a modern-day version of Willie, Mickey or the Duke.

The debate was rendered moot in 2004 when A-Rod moved to third base to accommodate Jeter upon joining the Yankees, while injuries have prevented Garciaparra from playing in more than 122 games in any season since. Because of the injuries, Garciaparra has fallen below the radar to some degree, and he is currently a free agent looking for a bargain-basement deal as a utilityman. But here's the thing a lot of people haven't noticed. With the exception of a particularly bad 2007 season with the Dodgers, Garciaparra has remained an effective hitter when he's healthy enough to play. And though Jeter has outperformed him in every season since he was traded from the Red Sox to the Cubs in 2004, does that mean he is going to do it again in 2009? The answer is not as clear cut as you might think.

Below are each player's 2009 weighted mean projection for batting average, OBP and slugging, based on PECOTA, Baseball Prospectus' projection system. Keep in mind that these are adjusted for home ballpark, so Nomar's numbers are based on Dodger Stadium, as he has yet to sign with a new club. And Jeter's are based on the old Yankee Stadium, as we don't yet know how his new stadium will play.

2009 PECOTA projections
Player BA OBP SLG Age
Jeter .288 .353 .383 35 (in June)
Garciaparra .274 .335 .409 36 (in July)

That's pretty darn similar, not to mention the fact that Dodger Stadium was the second-worst hitters park in baseball last season, while Yankee Stadium was middle of the pack. Put Nomar in a hitter's haven, and suddenly he's looking a lot better.

Any discussion of Nomar comes with the usual playing time caveats, as Jeter's durability will almost surely allow him to outproduce Garciaparra simply by staying in the lineup. But because of Garciaparra's ability to continue to hit for power, he's as valuable (if not more valuable) than Jeter when he's healthy enough to play. Had he qualified, Garciaparra's .466 slugging last season would've ranked sixth among MLB shortstops. And if he is able to match his PECOTA projection, than that's a higher OPS (.744) than Michael Young, Miguel Tejada and Edgar Renteria had last year.

For those who think Garciaparra is no longer a shortstop, he actually played 31 games there last season. Based on Baseball Prospectus' fielding rate metric, he was three runs below average per 100 games. That's a small sample size, but for his career he is two runs above average per 100 games, so he was right in line with that. In case you were wondering, Jeter was 13 runs below average per 100 games in 2008, and six below for his career.

My point here is not to take down Jeter, but simply to demonstrate that if we are going to assume that Jeter is still a useful player, then Garciaparra is too, particularly when you factor in that he's going to make about 1/10 of Jeter's $20 million salary and can fill in at first base, third base and left field. Even putting aside his versatility, there are probably about a dozen MLB teams who would be better off with Nomar at short. At least when he's healthy enough to play.

Matt Meyers is a contributing editor at ESPN The Magazine.

Nomar is no longer a viable option at SS... his range is nothing like it used to be (not that it was ever that great to begin with)... he's a weak hitting 1B, OF super utility guy at this stage in his career... he should probably get back on the roids, it might help to extend his career a few years.

Posted by TMS:

Nomar is no longer a viable option at SS... his range is nothing like it used to be (not that it was ever that great to begin with)... he's a weak hitting 1B, OF super utility guy at this stage in his career... he should probably get back on the roids, it might help to extend his career a few years.

He's probably having trouble finding the stuff that worked for him after he left Senator Mitchell's team.