i wouldn't give up any of those guys for Rolen at this stage in his career... maybe Ohlendorff but he won't be enough... Tabata is nowhere near being a 2nd teir prospect... he's been compared to a young Manny.
If we pay all of his salary the prospect cost will be less. He's owed 36 over 3 yrs. I think you could get it done for Betemit + Clippard.
Clippard is still a very good prospect. He struggled after he made the majors this year, but has been very good at all levels before that.
How about Aubrey Huff? According to the Times, the O's have some interest in Farnsworth. Maybe Farns for Huff? I think he could rotate in at 1st and 3rd with Betemit and Shelley.
Farns for Huff would be nice & the dollars are about even, but he's a lefty bat & we need a righty bat w/some pop... if you're looking for a platoon situation at 3B then i think Crede is the way to go, unless of course the Yankees decide to pony up the ccontract to land Lowell.
Posted by TMS:
Farns for Huff would be nice & the dollars are about even, but he's a lefty bat & we need a righty bat w/some pop... if you're looking for a platoon situation at 3B then i think Crede is the way to go, unless of course the Yankees decide to pony up the ccontract to land Lowell.
I think you can take Huff and platoon him at 1b w/ Shelley and have him as a hedge for Betemit at 3rd. There's some talk the Yanks are interested in Tejada as well, but the O's will likely be asking too much.
Supposedly Damon isn't going anywhere (Cashman and Girardi brought him to the GM meetings and told him he'd be the starting LF), so I don't know if Damon for Crede is still on the table. Crede I'm more concerned about anyway cause his is a back injury and back injuries tend to be the most debilitating w/ regards to erosion of skill level in sports.
yeah, Crede is definitely a big risk... under the circumstances Rolen would probably be ideal, but again, what will the Cards want for him is the question... i'd give them any of the 2nd tier pitchers we have in the system but i don't know if they'll bite on those guys... they'd likely ask for a major league level player like Melky & i wouldn't give him up either.
Tejada would be sweet too, but we mine as well go full on after Miggy if that's the case since the asking price will probably be along the same lines... the O's won't want to give up their best player to a divisional rival for anything less than an absurd package.
TMS- The assumption with Rolen is that we'd be taking on all his salary and the Cards won't want a ton back. In addition he has feuded with LaRussa. I think Betemit and a couple of 2nd tier pitchers may make it work. But its the same risk with him. His left shoulder has made him ineffective in 2 of the last 3 seasons. He had some surgery to get him healthy once he went on the DL this year and he should bounce back, but for how long? The reason this risk is more tolerable is that Rolen has historically been a much better player than Crede and Rolen has a salary that makes it much more likely the Cardinals want to move him for less (unlike Crede who is not locked up past this year I believe).
let's say we do this then:
- trade Betemit, Clippard & Henn for Rolen & take on his contract
- trade Farns for Huff
start Rolen at 3B, but have Huff as an insurance policy
platoon Giambi & Shelley Duncan at 1B
that gives u Huff & Andy Phillips as utility guys that can play IF & corner OF positions if need be & provides Joe G w/some options on the bench in case Rolen & Giambi aren't productive due to their health issues.
Yup, that's what I'm thinking.
would u do this:
- trade Wang, Melky & Horne for Santana
- trade Kennedy, Sanchez & Tabata for Cabrera & Dontrelle
- sign Torii Hunter
new rotation (no one over 28 yo except Andy, who will be replaced by either Joba or Hughes as the #2 after another year when their innings cap is removed):
Santana L
Andy L
Joba R
Hughes R
D-Train L
No. While I really like Santana, smallish left handed power pitchers have not had a historically long shelf life. Santana is clearly a better pitcher than Wang but Wang has still won 19 games in each of the past 2 years. Bottom line, you can't even expect Santana to give you more than that. I understand its a different story in the playoffs, but hopefully we've got 3 stoppers on the way here. Melky is a starting player in the majors and Horne, while below the top 3 guys and Betances, is absolutely a top shelf pitching prospect and projects as at least a no.2 or no.3 and he's close to the majors already.
I think Kennedy, Sanchez and Tabata is a lot to give. I don't have a lot of love for Willis, as he was flat out bad last year and not very good 2 years before either (high BAA and WHIP). He might be wearing down a bit after getting a lot of work early in his career. Obviously Cabrera is a flat out stud and its almost worth doing just for him- but you're talking about a guy in Tabata who would've been a top 10, maybe top 5 prospect in the entire game this year without the injury. Kennedy who was the minor league pitcher of the year and nothing short of a stud in his handful of innings on the major league level. And then with Sanchez you're talking about a future closer here. That's a high cost- not all prospects are going to pan out, but there are high odds guys.
Torii Hunter is a nice player, but he's 32. I'm not really interested in bringing him on a long term deal (you're probably gonna have to give him 5 years no?). The reality of the situation is that Austin Jackson is tearing up the Hawaii league and his just been on a flat out tear all year. He and Tabata will start the year in AA and will probably make the majors by 2009 (Jackson will probably be up at some point next year). Along with Melky you have you're potential outfield of the future there- not to mention we still have some quality guys to keep the seats warm right now. Melky is a good defensive CF, Abreu can still hit, and Damon will likley be in left this year. Damon will probably start the year healthy unlike las tyear and he's a big defensive upgrade over Matsui.
Also, I think if you were really going to go all out like that you should spend whatever A-Rod wants and put Miggy at first. Little bit of a starphuch, but if you're going to mortgage away that many of your young major league ready studs than that's the strategy you follow.
starphuching has not brought this team any championships since '77 & '78, & even then when George went after the biggest name FA on the market, Reggie Jax, we still had a very good core of players that had made it to the WS the year prior... w/that in mind i don't mind if we stay the course & build up w/the youth, but for a guy like Santana, man you gotta make that deal IMO... if you look at his #'s over most of his career, they're consistently great... a guy like Beckett would give me more qualms trading for to be honest because of his checkered ERA totals over his career... replace Wang w/Santana & he wins you 21 games or more easily w/his ERA & WHIP totals...
Wang isn't the most durable either, he's undergone some shoulder & hamstring issues as well in recent times... Santana is an absolute horse, & being a lefty at YS & w/this offense to back him up, man, you're talking the perfect situation for a quintessential Cy Young winner for us for the next 6-8 years... Wang isn't a strikeout pitcher, & he's got a relatively high WHIP total in comparison to Johan... the W's are nice, but any pitcher who gives you innings & a low ERA & WHIP can do better w/this offense.
Wang's postseason #'s are horrible too... he's 0-3 w/a 7.58 ERA in 4 career starts... Johan's record isn't much better, but his ERA is a full 3 points less in postseason play & Wang has allowed 28 hits in only 19 IP compared to Johan, who's about even in hits to innings pitched in the postseason... this concerns me as well, cuz in the postseason hits are at a premium.
Skanks aren't getting Santana without giving up Joba or Hughes in the deal.
i'd give up Hughes easily as long as Santana signed a contract extension... u always go for the proven commodity over the potential as long as the proven commodity isn't past his prime... Johan's still got plenty of great years left in his arm to make that deal justifiable.
Posted by jaydh:
Yankees aren't getting Santana without giving up Joba or Hughes in the deal.
Take a hike!
Mo takes the three year deal!!!!!
[Edited by - 4949 on 11-18-2007 6:24 PM]
A-Rod wins AL MVP honors for 3rd time (heard on ESPN radio)
Yeah, Posada only finished 6th in the voting...he should've gotten more votes.
Anyway, I read this morning that Mo might be holding out for a 4th year option.
I hope we don't sign Ron Mahay. LH reliever who was good alst year but has sucked for most of his career. Plus he's gonna be 37/38 next year. And he pitched for Atlanta. That's the trifecta of what hasn't worked for this team when signing relievers. Olney thinks we're interested.
