Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:
Cano's an awesome hitter & defensive player in his own right... i dunno if a straight up swap would be justified let alone giving up 2 other assets in the process.
[Edited by - TMS on 10-12-2008 8:56 PM]
Cano is NOT an awesome defensive player, the past 2 years he has been in the Top5 of 2B errors.
You are seriously telling me you wouldn't trade Cano for Carlos Beltran?
Cmon man.
oh come on, u seriously been watching Cano play all these years & think he's a bad defensive player... he makes errors cuz he gets to balls other 2B can only dream about getting to sometimes... there isn't another 2B in baseball that turns the DP better than he does & he's got a SS's arm at his position... please don't try to sell me that Mets BS that Cano's a horrible defender... he's awesome.
#1 Orlando Hudson turns the best DP in baseball and it's not even close.
#2 Cano also misses a ton of balls because he thinks he's so slick and doesn't try.
#3 don't start with this mets shit because I'm dissin a Yankee player. Dont you dare do me like that TMS....
i'm not trying to start anything w/u bro... just saying u seem to be buying into the Met fans' perspective that Cano's a horrible defensive player... i don't agree in the slightest... yeah he lollygags, it sucks but that's just his personality i guess... he's not a bad kid & he's not a showboater... he's got a ton of talent & for u to tell me he's not even in Carlos Beltran's league as a player is pretty ludicrous.
I'm not really interested in trading Cano + prospects for Beltran. Austin Jackson will be ready by 2010 and probably will be up at some point next year. I think Cano is still a long term piece, who clearly needs a kick in the rear but has a ton of talent and still has a batting title potential from the 2nd base position. Beltran is obviously quite a player, but can like Cano, can be erratic with the bat at times, and is now over 30.
On Cano's glove, he's got a lot of range- the errors can sometimes be misleading. He still needs to sure up a bit to be considered top tier, but he's clearly an above average defensive 2b IMHO.
Posted by TMS:
i'm not trying to start anything w/u bro... just saying u seem to be buying into the Met fans' perspective that Cano's a horrible defensive player... i don't agree in the slightest... yeah he lollygags, it sucks but that's just his personality i guess... he's not a bad kid & he's not a showboater... he's got a ton of talent & for u to tell me he's not even in Carlos Beltran's league as a player is pretty ludicrous.
I don't believe I ever said that he wasn't in Beltran's league, although he really never has approached Beltran numbers. All I said is that I would take Beltran everday over him. I value the position that Beltran plays and the way he plays it and the numbers he produces playing it.
Sure, Cano has a pretty stroke and plays a solid 2nd base, but when does he put a full season together? Cano is no longer really a young a player, a few days from now he's going to turn 26 and really he SHOULD start to enter the prime of his career. So far though everything I've seen from Cano just tells me that he's a player who might never make that jump from potential to consistent. Beltran on the other hand won't turn 32 until late April and is a guarantee for 30hr/100rbi/100runs/.875ops every year and he plays a FANTASTIC cf while doing it.
For me, I'm taking what Beltran gives you.
nyk, do me a favor & compare Beltran's #'s his first 4 seasons to Cano's... they're not all that much different... Beltran has the better power #'s but Cano's got the edge in batting average... both were very talented young players... like i said straight up it's a deal i may consider but probably wouldn't do... add to that the fact i have to give up a prospect and 1 of our best relievers & i'll pass.
[Edited by - TMS on 10-12-2008 9:23 PM]
Posted by TMS:
nyk, do me a favor & compare Beltran's #'s his first 4 seasons to Cano's... they're not all that much different.
I dunno dude.. Beltran was putting up 25/100/100/.275 on a terrible Royals team..
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:
nyk, do me a favor & compare Beltran's #'s his first 4 seasons to Cano's... they're not all that much different.
I dunno dude.. Beltran was putting up 25/100/100/.275 on a terrible Royals team..
Cano had a close to 900 OPS his second year in the majors dude... what other 2B give u those types of numbers other than maybe Chase Utley?
To me TMS. If we traded Cano/Bruney/Kennedy for Beltran, I'd obviously do that (as if you didn't know) and then I'd go out and sign Orlando Hudson to play 2B. He's a gold glover and he's a solid professional hitter.
Beltran throughout his career has been notoriously streaky in the same way Cano has. Just take a look at this first half/second half splits year by year and for his career. Actually, early in his career, he basically took the year after his Rookie of the Year season off and was quite erratic in terms of motivation.
He has come into his own, but I see TMS' parrallels with the sort of things people are saying right now about Cano.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:
nyk, do me a favor & compare Beltran's #'s his first 4 seasons to Cano's... they're not all that much different.
I dunno dude.. Beltran was putting up 25/100/100/.275 on a terrible Royals team..
Cano had a close to 900 OPS his second year in the majors dude... what other 2B give u those types of numbers other than maybe Chase Utley?
Well, this year, there were 5 2B who had an ops over .850. To me 2B doesn't need to be a power position, it needs to be a solid defensive position and just someone who can get on base for you.
Posted by VDesai:
Beltran throughout his career has been notoriously streaky in the same way Cano has. Just take a look at this first half/second half splits year by year and for his career. Actually, early in his career, he basically took the year after his Rookie of the Year season off and was quite erratic in terms of motivation.
He has come into his own, but I see TMS' parrallels with the sort of things people are saying right now about Cano.
Hey that argument is valid. No doubt about it. But whose to say it's a forgone conclusion that Cano actually does end up the way Beltran did? I don't think it's so fool-proof.
Believe me, theres not alot of guys I would give up Cano for, he's such a talented player. To me though, if I am getting Carlos Beltran back, I'm doing it.
By the way.. where ya been Des? I haven't seen you around here for awhile. Hope everything is ok!
Giambi had an identical OPS as Beltran last year... if u spend the $20 mil we save off Giambi's salary on Beltran while also giving up 2 valuable assets & a B prospect & don't get any upgrade in offense what's the point?
Posted by TMS:
Giambi had an identical OPS as Beltran last year... if u spend the $20 mil we save off Giambi's salary on Beltran while also giving up 2 valuable assets & a B prospect & don't get any upgrade in offense what's the point?
Because Beltran is an immense upgrade defensively in CF, he's as good or better than Melky and I feel he fits the Yankees offense much better than Giambi ever did. You're gonna bat him between Jeter and Arod in the 3 hole, that is lethal, absolutely lethal. I would venture to guess that I could see Beltran going 35/120/110/.290 in the 3 hole in front of ARod.
Beltran is not getting traded for that package, I doubt he gets traded at all.
Posted by nyk4ever:
By the way.. where ya been Des? I haven't seen you around here for awhile. Hope everything is ok!
Work has been heavy in light of the world exploding- just started a vacation and am going away on Tues...getting some posting done in between.
don't get me wrong bro, i would love to see him on our team instead of Melky, Gardner or Damon... i just don't think it's worth all the money & assets we'd have to give up... if we're gonna trade Cano we should probably target pitching... he's probably our best trading chip right now other than Joba, we gotta milk it for all it's worth.
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by nyk4ever:
By the way.. where ya been Des? I haven't seen you around here for awhile. Hope everything is ok!
Work has been heavy in light of the world exploding- just started a vacation and am going away on Tues...getting some posting done in between.
Sorry to hear that.. Well enjoy that vacation my friend.
Posted by TMS:
don't get me wrong bro, i would love to see him on our team instead of Melky, Gardner or Damon... i just don't think it's worth all the money & assets we'd have to give up... if we're gonna trade Cano we should probably target pitching... he's probably our best trading chip right now other than Joba, we gotta milk it for all it's worth.
I don't disagree with a thing you said. Believe me, I'd love to use Cano as part of that Peavy/Gonzo package, but we'll have to agree to disagree on Beltran.
I think the Yanks will probably get Tex and 1 big time starting pitcher and another middle of the line type. Nothings guaranteed, but I think the Yanks will be pretty loose with the pursestrings this year in light of being dissapointed with last year's results-
And in reality 89 wins while losing your ace, your all star catchers and several of your other top level offensive players for significant chunks of the year really is something you have to look at with some perspective. Yes they missed the playoffs, but they weren't as far away as some would have you convinced they were. Free agency moreso than trades make sense for this team.
Posted by jaydh:
Beltran is not getting traded for that package, I doubt he gets traded at all.
o right, we can only get untested B level prospects for Cano, right? gimme a break.
